early draft trade rumors... dealin with Detroit?

[sammyboy909]

So the trade scenario i've recently seen being bandied about on the interweb is what if Detroit called up and offered to switch picks in the first round (their second for our fifth overall) and their second or third rounder for Glenn Dorsey, and maybe a late round pick or switch. For discussion let's just assume the best case scenario, i.e. first round switch and the lions second round pick (34th overall) for Dorsey.

Regardless of the specific details, the basics of the trade seem to make sense for Detroit if St. Louis decides to draft a quarterback. Then the lions offers us Suh in exchange for Gunther's old guy Dorsey, and the lions trade down expecting to grab Okung to replace the often inconsistent and injured jeff backus at LT. The upside for us would be we grab many people's highest rated player in this draft, and retain the 34th, 36th, and 50th overall picks.

This is a potentially attractive proposition, and I admit there are draft scenarios that could play out where I would consider this a given (for instance, Suh becomes a life-long chief and hall-of-famer, and somehow we manage to pick up Mike Iupati, Terrance Cody, and Brandon Spikes or Taylor Mays in the second round). The problem is there are simply no guarantees about these later picks and ultimately we would be rolling the dice to replace Dorsey with Suh. We would be plugging in Suh as a 3-4 D-end and hoping he transitions well, whereas Dorsey already made the transition quite well and showed the potential to become a cornerstone of this defense for years to come.

The beauty of this rumor is that it we can't know whether or not its realistic until the minute we know what St. Louis does with the first pick, so it could a topic of argument amongst Dorsey-loving/Dorsey-hating chiefs fans for quite awhile. So what does everyone think?

[sammyboy909]

i like dorsey still i wish hed be a good nt hes a alright end but he will always just be alright unless tyson jackson can do more then take on a blocker. if we get wilfork i'll be happy with the line bein dorsey wilfork and jackson but we have to upgrade this spot to do any damage. i like seeing someone sayin we should take weatherspoon in the second. i love this lb hes all over the place good tackles good hands he did everything for the mizzou d

Agreed. I think signing Wilfork should be THE priority of the offseason. A d-line of Jackson, Wilfork, Dorsey could develop into a league elite.

Also Weatherspoon has it all. Intangibles, team leader, work horse and the skills to boot. I just see him going somewhere late in the first round. If we sign Wilfork and he is somehow available to us in the second round I say its a great pick, assuming we can upgrade our interior line with Pouncey later that same round.

[Coach]

Agreed. I think signing Wilfork should be THE priority of the offseason. A d-line of Jackson, Wilfork, Dorsey could develop into a league elite.

Also Weatherspoon has it all. Intangibles, team leader, work horse and the skills to boot. I just see him going somewhere late in the first round. If we sign Wilfork and he is somehow available to us in the second round I say its a great pick, assuming we can upgrade our interior line with Pouncey later that same round.

That D-line would have great potential. You seem very focused on Wilfork. I think it's unlikely at best. But just for giggles, would you be willing to give up our #5 pick to NE to sign Wilfork to a long term deal. Let's say 5 yrs, $50+ million, with $25 mm guaranteed.

Then come back in the 2nd round and take a ILB like Weatherspoon with our first 2nd round pick. Then take either Taylor Mays at Safety or possibly a WR like Golden Tate with our second 2nd round pick. Then a guard or center in the 3rd?

I think that deal could get done, but not sure if NE wants the financial burden of a Top 5 pick.

[chief31]

That D-line would have great potential. You seem very focused on Wilfork. I think it's unlikely at best. But just for giggles, would you be willing to give up our #5 pick to NE to sign Wilfork to a long term deal. Let's say 5 yrs, $50+ million, with $25 mm guaranteed.

Then come back in the 2nd round and take a ILB like Weatherspoon with our first 2nd round pick. Then take either Taylor Mays at Safety or possibly a WR like Golden Tate with our second 2nd round pick. Then a guard or center in the 3rd?

I think that deal could get done, but not sure if NE wants the financial burden of a Top 5 pick.

Again, I agree.

And I think that that may be a fair enough deal. I would have to consider that trade.

[sammyboy909]

That D-line would have great potential. You seem very focused on Wilfork. I think it's unlikely at best. But just for giggles, would you be willing to give up our #5 pick to NE to sign Wilfork to a long term deal. Let's say 5 yrs, $50+ million, with $25 mm guaranteed.

Then come back in the 2nd round and take a ILB like Weatherspoon with our first 2nd round pick. Then take either Taylor Mays at Safety or possibly a WR like Golden Tate with our second 2nd round pick. Then a guard or center in the 3rd?

I think that deal could get done, but not sure if NE wants the financial burden of a Top 5 pick.

wow.
I love the specifics of the Wilfork deal you proposed since i think 5 yrs 50 million is almost exactly the money he should command. I also agree with you it's unlikely to get done.

However, aside from the fact NE wants nothing to do with trading up, I would never consider that deal for our #5 overall considering the following: Even if NE slaps Wilfork with the franchise tag, they did the same thing to Cassel last year and we landed him for an early second rounder and inked him at the same level of money, and he is a "franchise" QB (not that i don't believe in #7) but NT doesn't command the same level of $$$.

So here is a counterproposal. Wilfork for our #36 overall and a 4th/5th round pick. This is a dream scenario for me, then I say take Okung first. Then if Weatherspoon is somehow available for our #50 then jump on him. If he's not (He won't, neither will my other guy Mike Iupati) then hopefully Pouncey is available to solidify the interior OL (I still believe a team lives and dies in the trenches).

I'm much less worried about drafting a receiver or a safety high. I'm still high on Bowe and I am coveting Steve Breatson (Ex-Hailey-Cardinal) as another highly capable offseason acquisition.

Any counter-scenarios you'd like to propose, Coach?

[Pro_Angler]

Berry will be there at 5 why trade??

[whatwasthat?]

That's what I was thinking too. Could you imagine coming away with Suh, Williams, Weatherspoon and Kindle all in one draft? The defense would be set!

We might be overvaluing Dorsey, but if we were able to come away with a pick swap and their 17th, my dream draft looks something like one of these two:

1a (Detroit). Suh (DE) (McCoy if StL takes Suh)
1b (Detroit). Williams (DT)
2a. Weatherspoon (LB)
2b. Pouncey (C)
3. Kindle (LB)
4. Eric Decker (WR)
5. Robert Johnson (S)

or maybe

1a. Berry (S)
1b. Bulaga (T)
2a. Odrick (DE)
2b. Cody (DT)
3. Shipley (WR)
4. Eric Olsen (C)
5. Selvie (LB)

and for a little KSU love, Joshua Moore at CB in the later rounds on both.

there is no way weatherspoon falls to 2
he was impressive at the senior bowl and he is too athletic to drop due to a bad combine

[Xanathol]

Being an infrequent vistor to this board, it seems I'm always seeing something involving a rumor with a Dorsey trade. As KC fans, what would be the opinion of trading with the Saints for one of their LTs for Dorsey? The Saints have Jamal, a pro-bowler, and Bushrod, who started all season during the Super Bowl run. Chances are imo, that neither wants to ride the pine and both are in need of resigning. What ya'll think?

[beefsupreme]

wow.
I love the specifics of the Wilfork deal you proposed since i think 5 yrs 50 million is almost exactly the money he should command. I also agree with you it's unlikely to get done.

However, aside from the fact NE wants nothing to do with trading up, I would never consider that deal for our #5 overall considering the following: Even if NE slaps Wilfork with the franchise tag, they did the same thing to Cassel last year and we landed him for an early second rounder and inked him at the same level of money, and he is a "franchise" QB (not that i don't believe in #7) but NT doesn't command the same level of $$$.

So here is a counterproposal. Wilfork for our #36 overall and a 4th/5th round pick. This is a dream scenario for me, then I say take Okung first. Then if Weatherspoon is somehow available for our #50 then jump on him. If he's not (He won't, neither will my other guy Mike Iupati) then hopefully Pouncey is available to solidify the interior OL (I still believe a team lives and dies in the trenches).

I'm much less worried about drafting a receiver or a safety high. I'm still high on Bowe and I am coveting Steve Breatson (Ex-Hailey-Cardinal) as another highly capable offseason acquisition.

Any counter-scenarios you'd like to propose, Coach?

I don't like the counter proposal that you are suggesting. How can you say the lions would be willing to give up a swap of picks in the first and their second for dorsey and their second when you are placing a value on Wilfork of a second and a later round pick? Why wouldn't the lions just offer the patriots their second and keep their first. Wilfork is going to cost more then what you are proposing.
Another trade rumor I have heard with lions is:
Dorsey + filler

for

#34, Julian Peterson, and later round swaps.

[whatwasthat?]

Being an infrequent vistor to this board, it seems I'm always seeing something involving a rumor with a Dorsey trade. As KC fans, what would be the opinion of trading with the Saints for one of their LTs for Dorsey? The Saints have Jamal, a pro-bowler, and Bushrod, who started all season during the Super Bowl run. Chances are imo, that neither wants to ride the pine and both are in need of resigning. What ya'll think?

i think dealing dorsey is a very dumb idea...we have so many weak positions (especially on defense) we cant afford to trade off players with talent...imagine the run defense from the buffalo and cleveland games but throughout an entire season...that sends shivers down my spine

[Coach]

wow.
I love the specifics of the Wilfork deal you proposed since i think 5 yrs 50 million is almost exactly the money he should command. I also agree with you it's unlikely to get done.

However, aside from the fact NE wants nothing to do with trading up, I would never consider that deal for our #5 overall considering the following: Even if NE slaps Wilfork with the franchise tag, they did the same thing to Cassel last year and we landed him for an early second rounder and inked him at the same level of money, and he is a "franchise" QB (not that i don't believe in #7) but NT doesn't command the same level of $$$.

So here is a counterproposal. Wilfork for our #36 overall and a 4th/5th round pick. This is a dream scenario for me, then I say take Okung first. Then if Weatherspoon is somehow available for our #50 then jump on him. If he's not (He won't, neither will my other guy Mike Iupati) then hopefully Pouncey is available to solidify the interior OL (I still believe a team lives and dies in the trenches).

I'm much less worried about drafting a receiver or a safety high. I'm still high on Bowe and I am coveting Steve Breatson (Ex-Hailey-Cardinal) as another highly capable offseason acquisition.

Any counter-scenarios you'd like to propose, Coach?

I think it's optimistic to think that NE would be willing to trade Wilfork for an 2nd and 4th round pick. I would guess that they could find other offers in the late 1st round. So, would you be willing to trade both 2nd round picks for Wilfork?

Making our draft day haul looking something like:
1st - Eric Berry(S) or Okung(OL)
2nd - Wilfork(NT)
3rd - Brandon Spikes(ILB, Florida) or OL depending on the 1st round pick.
4th - Darrell Stuckey(SS, Kansas)

I think giving up both 2nd round picks for Wilfork could get the deal done as well.

Being an infrequent vistor to this board, it seems I'm always seeing something involving a rumor with a Dorsey trade. As KC fans, what would be the opinion of trading with the Saints for one of their LTs for Dorsey? The Saints have Jamal, a pro-bowler, and Bushrod, who started all season during the Super Bowl run. Chances are imo, that neither wants to ride the pine and both are in need of resigning. What ya'll think?

I would take Jamal Brown, but Bushrod would not be an upgrade over Albert IMO. Bushrod was largely aided by having double team help against both Jared Allen and Dwight Freeney.