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Thread: Why NFL could close in 2011

  1. #1
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    Default Why NFL could close in 2011


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    Anyone read this article on Yahoo this morning?
    Thoughts...

    Yahoo! Sports - Sports News, Scores, Rumors, Fantasy Games, and more
    slug=ms-laborquestions090810
    **ChiefsChick**

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    Quote Originally Posted by matthewschiefs View Post
    Ok one last time And I think we can agree to disagree.

    I am sure that if the players were willing to give something back we would not be were we are now. The owners are not stupid they would make something work. Likewise if the owners would budge then the players would. It's BOTH sides. Yes the owners opted out but you have to keep in mind the economy has been on the decline for years. It's simply not the same market. Can you say if you made a deal the market changed you would not opt out.
    OK, that doesn't make sense. The owners opt out of the CBA. That means the first move is theirs. So far, they haven't conceded anything. All they've done is demand that players work 12% more for less pay. They opted out because they're greedy. That's the only reason. Every owner except for Wayne Weaver is making tens of millions of dallars a year.

    And your economy argument isn't accurate. The NFL is making more money than any time than ever in its history.

    Quote Originally Posted by matthewschiefs View Post
    The avarge player does not make millions i no but they make about 300,000 a year at least. I would have to work 10 years to get to that. If they only do play 3 years thats 900,000 and I am going off the 2007 salarys. I am sure they have gone up. I most likely will not see 900,000 in my lifetime. So why can't the players get there own health insuarce? Millions of other americans do it. Why are they so specal?
    Again, they don't make that much. See my earlier post on the economics of being a football player.

    And they don't get their own insurance because companies won't cover them. You know, because of the massive injury risks associated with being a NFL player.

    Finally, they're so special because they work harder and have more specialized skills than 99.99% of the population. You can't do what they do. Neither can I. Neither can 99.99% of people.

    Quote Originally Posted by matthewschiefs View Post
    Like i stated sports are the only industry where the ownership/managment does not get the higher % of the income. Gamestop the company i work for reports over 3 billion almost every year with a payroll of about 750,000. Ownership makes all the money. The players have it good. The fact that they are wanting any more is greed IMO.
    OK, that isn't true. Every company of any size spend more on labor than they get in profits. That's the fact of modern corproate life.

    Quote Originally Posted by matthewschiefs View Post
    I don't care to much about the owners and belive it or not I side with the players most of the time. I have just grown tired of hearing people makeing 10 times more then I complain about there job market.
    With all respect, you don't remotely have the skills of even the worst football player. Does it bother you when other skilled professionals negotiate contracts? Lawyers, surgeons, programmers, and engineers negotiate contacts in which they make 10x what you or I do. If that doesn't bother you, why not? What's the difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by matthewschiefs View Post
    They have it so good. Make them work for 30,000 a year and then offer what the owners want i bet they would take that deal in a hartbeat.
    Huh? You can get a bunch of guys off the street to play for $30,000 if you want. But you can't get NFL quality players for that. No one will risk life and limb, condition, work, train, and play at a NFL level for that money.

    You have to decide what you want, the NFL or the XFL. The difference is the quality of player.

  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwilliams View Post
    OK, that doesn't make sense. The owners opt out of the CBA. That means the first move is theirs. So far, they haven't conceded anything. All they've done is demand that players work 12% more for less pay. They opted out because they're greedy. That's the only reason. Every owner except for Wayne Weaver is making tens of millions of dallars a year.

    And your economy argument isn't accurate. The NFL is making more money than any time than ever in its history.



    Again, they don't make that much. See my earlier post on the economics of being a football player.

    And they don't get their own insurance because companies won't cover them. You know, because of the massive injury risks associated with being a NFL player.

    Finally, they're so special because they work harder and have more specialized skills than 99.99% of the population. You can't do what they do. Neither can I. Neither can 99.99% of people.



    OK, that isn't true. Every company of any size spend more on labor than they get in profits. That's the fact of modern corproate life.



    With all respect, you don't remotely have the skills of even the worst football player. Does it bother you when other skilled professionals negotiate contracts? Lawyers, surgeons, programmers, and engineers negotiate contacts in which they make 10x what you or I do. If that doesn't bother you, why not? What's the difference?



    Huh? You can get a bunch of guys off the street to play for $30,000 if you want. But you can't get NFL quality players for that. No one will risk life and limb, condition, work, train, and play at a NFL level for that money.

    You have to decide what you want, the NFL or the XFL. The difference is the quality of player.

    Agree to disagree on this one as well.


    Just keep in mind the old saying it takes 2 to tango. If either sided really wanted to get a deal done now it would be done. The owners are greedy but so are the players. It's both sided IMO..

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthewschiefs View Post
    Agree to disagree on this one as well.


    Just keep in mind the old saying it takes 2 to tango. If either sided really wanted to get a deal done now it would be done. The owners are greedy but so are the players. It's both sided IMO..
    Unfortunately, how much players are paid, the economic state of the NFL, insurance practices, and how much of average corporate income is given to labor aren't matters of opinion. They're black and white facts.

    If I want you to take a pay cut and work longer, and you don't agree to do that, are you greedy? Should you capitulate just to get a deal done? Because that's exactly the situation here.

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwilliams View Post
    Unfortunately, how much players are paid, the economic state of the NFL, insurance practices, and how much of average corporate income is given to labor aren't matters of opinion. They're black and white facts.

    If I want you to take a pay cut and work longer, and you don't agree to do that, are you greedy? Should you capitulate just to get a deal done? Because that's exactly the situation here.

    I can easliy turn this around to people want all the benfits at the owners expense and want more money on top of that? and they are not being greedy?
    No one answed this when I asked before whats wrong with this deal

    The owners get there 2 extra games.

    the player get the benfits they are asking for.

    Both sides gain something. both sides give something.

    The players won't go for that because they will whine that its 2 more games. See it's not really about the benfits like they are makeing it out to be in the media its about the MONEY. The benfits are just there sob story to get people behind them.
    I know they don't have benfits they should Again I think the owners are just as if not more greedy then the players. I just no it's both sides. Millions of people dont get benfits are work. If they don't like it they find somewere eles to work that matches there skill level. These people are not makeing near the money the LOWEST paid nfl player makes a year. Yes theres more danger but they chose to play. Not to mention there takeing out 2 preseason games so it's not like this is 2 games that come out of no were.

    And keep this in mind. The same people that want there benfits and play a dangrous game complain when the NFL moved the umpire for his safety because it affects the way the game is played. Theres greed on both sides that's just how it is. That's my opinion.

  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthewschiefs View Post
    I can easliy turn this around to people want all the benfits at the owners expense and want more money on top of that? and they are not being greedy?
    That argument only makes sense if the players had opted out. They haven't sought extra money. They were content to play under a system that was profitable to both owners and players (the prior CBA). Fighting pay cuts and longer hours isn't remotely greedy, especially at a time in which the NFL is making more money than ever before.

    Quote Originally Posted by matthewschiefs View Post
    No one answed this when I asked before whats wrong with this deal

    The owners get there 2 extra games.

    the player get the benfits they are asking for.

    Both sides gain something. both sides give something.
    The players would take that deal in a second. It hasn't been offered by ownership.

    Quote Originally Posted by matthewschiefs View Post
    The players won't go for that because they will whine that its 2 more games. See it's not really about the benfits like they are makeing it out to be in the media its about the MONEY. The benfits are just there sob story to get people behind them.
    Nope. The players will play more games, but they won't work more for less money in a league in which career-ending injuries are a common occurrence.

    Quote Originally Posted by matthewschiefs View Post
    I know they don't have benfits they should Again I think the owners are just as if not more greedy then the players. I just no it's both sides. Millions of people dont get benfits are work.
    OK, I mean this nicely, but you need to work harder on writing your posts. You're not making sense here.

    Quote Originally Posted by matthewschiefs View Post
    If they don't like it they find somewere eles to work that matches there skill level. These people are not makeing near the money the LOWEST paid nfl player makes a year. Yes theres more danger but they chose to play. Not to mention there takeing out 2 preseason games so it's not like this is 2 games that come out of no were.
    Most people don't have the skills of NFL players. As a Gamestop employee, you're probably good at playing video games and customer service. But you can be replaced easily. NFL players can't.

    Believe it or not, it isn't easy to play in the NFL. It requires conditioning and skill that almost no one else can do. The experiences and pay of Gamestop employees or of most any other professions don't matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by matthewschiefs View Post
    And keep this in mind. The same people that want there benfits and play a dangrous game complain when the NFL moved the umpire for his safety because it affects the way the game is played. Theres greed on both sides that's just how it is. That's my opinion.
    No, they didn't. Peyton Manning complaining isn't the same as 2000 players complaining. And as I said before, this isn't about the Mannings of the world. This is about the 80% of players who have 3-year careers before being shuffled out of the league.

  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwilliams View Post
    That argument only makes sense if the players had opted out. They haven't sought extra money. They were content to play under a system that was profitable to both owners and players (the prior CBA). Fighting pay cuts and longer hours isn't remotely greedy, especially at a time in which the NFL is making more money than ever before.



    The players would take that deal in a second. It hasn't been offered by ownership.



    Nope. The players will play more games, but they won't work more for less money in a league in which career-ending injuries are a common occurrence.



    OK, I mean this nicely, but you need to work harder on writing your posts. You're not making sense here.



    Most people don't have the skills of NFL players. As a Gamestop employee, you're probably good at playing video games and customer service. But you can be replaced easily. NFL players can't.

    Believe it or not, it isn't easy to play in the NFL. It requires conditioning and skill that almost no one else can do. The experiences and pay of Gamestop employees or of most any other professions don't matter.



    No, they didn't. Peyton Manning complaining isn't the same as 2000 players complaining. And as I said before, this isn't about the Mannings of the world. This is about the 80% of players who have 3-year careers before being shuffled out of the league.
    Ok they take out 2 preseason games and make them regular season games and that's more games? Do you alway change facts to suite your opinion? They will play more plays but not more games. Changeing the facts won't change that.


    Yes i am well aware that it's hard to play in the NFL they get paid almost 10xs the avarge person and thats the lowest with the lowest salary being 285,000 per year. And again that was the 2007 number it's gone up. Isn't that enough? Yet they want benfits and to be paid for the 2 games that people like you seem to think are added out of no were. They don't get benfits. While i agree they should why cant they go and put money away for if something bad does happen. Millions of other people have to take care of themselfs. I no I no how much risk there is. I will again bring up the police and firemen whos job is EVERYDAY they don't get an offseason. And yes the U.S. Goverment brings in more money then nfl owners They blow it. But the police and firemen who have a job with higher risk seem to manage on less. And most are happy to do it. The players could do the same they just won't

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    Quote Originally Posted by matthewschiefs View Post
    Ok they take out 2 preseason games and make them regular season games and that's more games? Do you alway change facts to suite your opinion? They will play more plays but not more games. Changeing the facts won't change that.
    Come on. Guys don't play preseason games with 1/10th of the passion they play regular season games. Not to mention that starters play, what, a quarter, maybe two?

    Why don't we go to a 14-game season and play 6 preseason games? Same thing, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by matthewschiefs View Post
    Yes i am well aware that it's hard to play in the NFL they get paid almost 10xs the avarge person and thats the lowest with the lowest salary being 285,000 per year. And again that was the 2007 number it's gone up.
    1. That isn't ten times the average salary (about $40K).

    2. You're forgetting higher tax brackets (state and federal) and agent fees. As my father always said, it doesn't matter what you make. It matters what you keep.

    Quote Originally Posted by matthewschiefs View Post
    Isn't that enough? Yet they want benfits and to be paid for the 2 games that people like you seem to think are added out of no were. They don't get benfits. While i agree they should why cant they go and put money away for if something bad does happen. Millions of other people have to take care of themselfs. I no I no how much risk there is. I will again bring up the police and firemen whos job is EVERYDAY they don't get an offseason.
    Are you aware of the benefit packages for police officers and firefighters? If NFL players get the same, they'd be more than happy.

    And NFL players will play more games. They'll play 365 games a year if you want. But they won't play without being paid for it. Or without asurances that they won't be put out on the street if they get hurt.

    And again, service industry jobs aren't the same, either mentally or physically, as NFL jobs.

    Quote Originally Posted by matthewschiefs View Post
    And yes the U.S. Govermentg that brings in more money then nfl owners They blow it. But the police and firemen who have a job with higher risk seem to manage on less. And most are happy to do it. The players could do the same they just won't
    Huh? I have no idea what you're trying to say here. If you're saying that being a fireman or police officer is as dangerous or as risky as being a NFL player, you're incredibly wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bwilliams View Post
    Come on. Guys don't play preseason games with 1/10th of the passion they play regular season games. Not to mention that starters play, what, a quarter, maybe two?

    Why don't we go to a 14-game season and play 6 preseason games? Same thing, right?



    1. That isn't ten times the average salary (about $40K).

    2. You're forgetting higher tax brackets (state and federal) and agent fees. As my father always said, it doesn't matter what you make. It matters what you keep.



    Are you aware of the benefit packages for police officers and firefighters? If NFL players get the same, they'd be more than happy.

    And NFL players will play more games. They'll play 365 games a year if you want. But they won't play without being paid for it. Or without asurances that they won't be put out on the street if they get hurt.

    And again, service industry jobs aren't the same, either mentally or physically, as NFL jobs.



    Huh? I have no idea what you're trying to say here. If you're saying that being a fireman or police officer is as dangerous or as risky as being a NFL player, you're incredibly wrong.

    Ok I am done argueing this.

    for the record I am more on the side of the players. The owners did opt out I don't think thats a big deal this would have happend they made it happen sooner rather then later. The point is Millions of people don't have what they and they want more. That in my opinion is greed. I just feel that there is greed on both sides.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matthewschiefs View Post
    Ok I am done argueing this.

    for the record I am more on the side of the players. The owners did opt out I don't think thats a big deal this would have happend they made it happen sooner rather then later. The point is Millions of people don't have what they and they want more. That in my opinion is greed. I just feel that there is greed on both sides.
    Negotiating for a salary and benefits isn't greed. Greed is seeking salary and benefits beyond what you're worth. Again, do you want the NFL or the XFL?

    You can get 53 guys on every team who will play for $30K a year. But you won't get NFL caliber players.

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    Good exchange!


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