Another for the Cassel haters......

[SIC J]

It was an ugly game, but when it came down to it, the Chiefs won the game BEHIND CASSEL'S ARM. End of story!!!

Now discuss about how he almost blew the game and blah blah blah and forget that he WON the game for the Chiefs.

Ready and GO!

[chief31]

As for the statement "But I guess Brady never improved on his numbers after that season and New England gave up on him...right?" -- totally ridiculous. You are not reading correctly into what I've been saying. I said Cassel is getting paid franchise QB type money, but has not proven that he is a Franchise QB and therefore he shouldn't be getting paid as such.

True. I have seen you saying that.

But...

Did you let someone else take over the keyboard when you said this....

And you can dream of Cassel taking the Chiefs to the Super Bowl, but guess what? Not going to happen.

???

If you nobody else took the keyboard from you, then I think Ryfo was definitely reading correctly into what you are saying.

[CapitalT]

Brady's 2001 Super Bowl Stats in the regular season:

Att/Cmp: 264/413
Yards: 2843
Comp Pct: 63.9%
TD: 18
INT: 12
Sacks: 41
Y/A: 6.9

Cassel is on pace for this season:

Att/Cmp: 250/428
Yards: 2824
Comp Pct: 58.4%
TD: 24
INT: 8
Sacks: 22
Y/A 6.6

The only alarming stat is completion percentage, which I argue would go up if we added another quality WR, something that can be done in the offseason. But I guess Brady never improved on his numbers after that season and New England gave up on him...right?

Stop with the Brady comparisons. That was Brady's first full season. He only started 14 games that year and he only played in 15 and ... it was his worst year passing.

We are currently ranked 29th in the league in passing.

[Ryfo18]

Stop with the Brady comparisons. That was Brady's first full season. He only started 14 games that year and he only played in 15 and ... it was his worst year passing.

We are currently ranked 29th in the league in passing.

Why do I need to stop? You don't think it's a valid comparison? 2001 wa Brady's first season with Weis, 2010 is Cassel's first full season with Weis. So what if we're 29th in the league in passing? We're also 30th in attempts. The Chiefs boast the league's best rushing offense in the league (still). I'm not shocked that the passing game isn't tops in stats. Everyone is ready to write off Cassel (who's quarterbacked us to the top of the AFC West). I just find it humorous b/c you fail to acknowledge all of the other failures that have occurred in the teams 3 losses.

If we get rid of Cassel, we start at this exact same point (or worse) at QB next season. I already showed you the crappy FA options available, a rookie isn't going to come in here and outplay him. Remember how bad Derrick Johnson was the last few years? Guess what, he improved his game! Shocking that an NFL player would do something like that!

[wilqb16]

My take on Cassel is that he is not a bad QB. Is he in the class of Brady or Manning, at this point, no. But we are going to be doing a lot of shopping if we are going to only look for a guy in that class.

Interestingly, Cassel led the NFL with a 108.9 QB rating on 3rd down in his first full season in New England. So he is capable.

I think our problem more our receivers than Cassel. Cassel is actually convering a respectable (and 10th ranked) 53.3 on 3rd downs from 3 to 7 yards. However, he is only 24% on 3rd downs of 8+ yards. To me this shows some of the problem is the receivers. When team know we have to pass we can't rely on play action and deception to get them open. Note too that our worst two games for 3rd down percentage have been since McCluster went down. Coincidence? I think not.

Lets face it, Weis think so little of our wideouts that - in case anyone noticed - Moeaki spent much of the game lining up as a WR (and a split end at that), particularly on 3rd down. Then we had two sure fire drops on 3rd down that would have been conversions (the one by Bowe and one by Moeaki).

[Ryfo18]

One more interesting tidbit I found. Two quarterbacks. One quarterback's numbers are in 4 games since Randy Moss was traded away from his team (that would be Tom Brady). The other quarterback is Matt Cassel during that same span of 4 games. Guess who is who:

Quarterback 1

CMP/ATT: 81/139
CMP %: 58.3%
YDS: 915
Y/A: 6.6
TD: 5
INT: 2
Rating: 84.1


Quarterback 2
CMP/ATT: 67/108
CMP%: 62%
YDS: 762
Y/A: 7.1
TD: 8
INT: 1
Rating: 104.0


I think you know where I'm going with this. Which quarterback would you look to replace first? All I'm saying, give Cassel another WR in the offseason. Don't ditch him, it'd be foolish to start over again at the QB position.

[chief31]

Quarterback 1

CMP/ATT: 81/139
CMP %: 58.3%
YDS: 915
Y/A: 6.6
TD: 5
INT: 2
Rating: 84.1


Quarterback 2
CMP/ATT: 67/108
CMP%: 62%
YDS: 762
Y/A: 7.1
TD: 8
INT: 1
Rating: 104.0

Well, since we all know that QB 2 is horrible and needs to be replaced, I think that it is completely obvious that QB 1 is the worst player to ever exist, and should probably be beaten with garden hoses and wire hangers until he agrees to never play the game again.

[CapitalT]

Why do I need to stop? You don't think it's a valid comparison? 2001 wa Brady's first season with Weis, 2010 is Cassel's first full season with Weis. So what if we're 29th in the league in passing? We're also 30th in attempts. The Chiefs boast the league's best rushing offense in the league (still). I'm not shocked that the passing game isn't tops in stats. Everyone is ready to write off Cassel (who's quarterbacked us to the top of the AFC West). I just find it humorous b/c you fail to acknowledge all of the other failures that have occurred in the teams 3 losses.

If we get rid of Cassel, we start at this exact same point (or worse) at QB next season. I already showed you the crappy FA options available, a rookie isn't going to come in here and outplay him. Remember how bad Derrick Johnson was the last few years? Guess what, he improved his game! Shocking that an NFL player would do something like that!

Unbelievable - Explaining won't matter since you are so wildly in love with Cassel that all reason has left you but I will anyway.

YES - it's a terrible comparison. First, as I mentioned before Brady only started 14 games that year. So your stat extrapolation doesn't work. If you need further help take a remedial math class.

Second - It was Brady's first chance as a starting QB. Just in case you don't realize the significance of experience as a starting QB, generally speaking, it helps your performance. This is definitely not Cassel's first chance.

If you look at my earlier post, you'll see that I thought Cassel had an average game ... I still do. I have not advocated for getting rid of Cassel (we have no viable options) Also, I have laid a lot more blame at Bowe's doorstep than I have Cassel's. BTW - I thought benching DJ was a terrible idea, I didn't think he was bad ... I thought he was good and it was a coaching mistake to sit him down.

All I tried to point out was, when you make comparisons to Brady you ruin your credibility. Cassel may be better than Brady someday - maybe even this season. Right now he's not even close.

You know there are other posts in the forum right? This one just happens to be about Cassel. People may be criticising other players in those forums - go check it out.

[Connie Jo]

My take on Cassel is that he is not a bad QB. Is he in the class of Brady or Manning, at this point, no. But we are going to be doing a lot of shopping if we are going to only look for a guy in that class.

Interestingly, Cassel led the NFL with a 108.9 QB rating on 3rd down in his first full season in New England. So he is capable.

I think our problem more our receivers than Cassel. Cassel is actually convering a respectable (and 10th ranked) 53.3 on 3rd downs from 3 to 7 yards. However, he is only 24% on 3rd downs of 8+ yards. To me this shows some of the problem is the receivers. When team know we have to pass we can't rely on play action and deception to get them open. Note too that our worst two games for 3rd down percentage have been since McCluster went down. Coincidence? I think not.

Lets face it, Weis think so little of our wideouts that - in case anyone noticed - Moeaki spent much of the game lining up as a WR (and a split end at that), particularly on 3rd down. Then we had two sure fire drops on 3rd down that would have been conversions (the one by Bowe and one by Moeaki).

First, I want to clarify that I'm not giving up on Cassel, however, the pass in particular thrown to Bowe was short & low. Bowe had to drop to his knees to attempt making the catch. Yes, it was catchable, and Bowe should've caught it...but it was as much Cassels fault as Bowes...that one is 50/50. I remember Moeaki missing one too, but can't remember the specifics of the ball thrown like I do with the one thrown to Bowe for a 3rd down conversion.

[pbatrucker]

First, I want to clarify that I'm not giving up on Cassel, however, the pass in particular thrown to Bowe was short & low. Bowe had to drop to his knees to attempt making the catch. Yes, it was catchable, and Bowe should've caught it...but it was as much Cassels fault as Bowes...that one is 50/50. I remember Moeaki missing one too, but can't remember the specifics of the ball thrown like I do with the one thrown to Bowe for a 3rd down conversion.

But that pass was right were it had to be thrown. Were only Bowe could have caught it. That was a good toss by Cassel.

[Ryfo18]

Unbelievable - Explaining won't matter since you are so wildly in love with Cassel that all reason has left you but I will anyway.

YES - it's a terrible comparison. First, as I mentioned before Brady only started 14 games that year. So your stat extrapolation doesn't work. If you need further help take a remedial math class.

Second - It was Brady's first chance as a starting QB. Just in case you don't realize the significance of experience as a starting QB, generally speaking, it helps your performance. This is definitely not Cassel's first chance.

If you look at my earlier post, you'll see that I thought Cassel had an average game ... I still do. I have not advocated for getting rid of Cassel (we have no viable options) Also, I have laid a lot more blame at Bowe's doorstep than I have Cassel's. BTW - I thought benching DJ was a terrible idea, I didn't think he was bad ... I thought he was good and it was a coaching mistake to sit him down.

All I tried to point out was, when you make comparisons to Brady you ruin your credibility. Cassel may be better than Brady someday - maybe even this season. Right now he's not even close.

You know there are other posts in the forum right? This one just happens to be about Cassel. People may be criticising other players in those forums - go check it out.

Fine, I went back and gave Brady credit for 16 games (simply added two more games on for him):

CMP/ATT: 302/472
CMP%: 63.9%
Yards: 3249
TDs: 21
TD%: 4.4%
INT: 14
INT%: 2.9%
Y/A: 6.9
Rating: 86.5
Sacks: 47
SK%: 9%


Cassel's again:

CMP/ATT: 250/428
CMP%: 58.4% (Keep in mind that up to this point if Bowe catches 4 of his drops, he's at 60%)
Yards: 2824
TDs: 24
TD%: 5.6%
INT: 8
INT%: 1.9%
Y/A: 6.6
Rating: 89.2
Sacks: 22
SK%: 4.9%

I don't see why exactly I lose credibility comparing him to Brady. It's more you that don't want to let this thought enter your head despite everything I've shown you. And once again, this is comparing their first seasons with Weis as the Offensive Coordinator.

But since you want to discount this as Brady's First full season, here's the stats on Brady up until Moss came along and his TD numbers inflated to 50 that year (keep in mind Brady has never thrown for over 30 TDs in a season except for that year).

2002
CMP/ATT: 373/601
CMP%: 62.1%
Yards: 3764
TDs: 28
TD%: 4.7%
INT: 14
INT%: 2.3%
Y/A: 6.3
Rating: 85.7
Sacks: 31
SK%: 4.9%

2003
CMP/ATT: 317/527
CMP%: 60.2%
Yards: 3620
TDs: 23
TD%: 4.4%
INT: 12
INT%: 2.3%
Y/A: 6.9
Rating: 85.9
Sacks: 32
SK%: 5.7%

2004
CMP/ATT: 288/474
CMP%: 60.8%
Yards: 3692
TDs: 28
TD%: 5.9%
INT: 14
INT%: 3%
Y/A: 7.8
Rating: 92.6
Sacks: 26
SK%: 5.2%

2005
CMP/ATT: 334/530
CMP%: 63%
Yards: 4110
TDs: 26
TD%: 4.9%
INT: 14
INT%: 2.6%
Y/A: 7.8
Rating: 92.3
Sacks: 26
SK%: 4.7%

2006
CMP/ATT: 319/516
CMP%: 61.8%
Yards: 3529
TDs: 24
TD%: 4.7%
INT: 12
INT%: 2.3%
Y/A: 6.8
Rating: 87.9
Sacks: 26
SK%: 4.8%

Now as I recall, the original argument was that Cassel could not win a Super Bowl. I've just showed you Brady's numbers in his first 6 seasons as a starter (he won 3 Super Bowls). Based on Cassel's sample size of 8 games this year, he wins in TDs per attempt, INTs per attempt, and QB rating 4 out of the 6 years.

I suppose I could extrapolate Brady's numbers out through the end of this year too:

2010
CMP/ATT: 332/422
CMP%: 63.6%
Yards: 3652
TDs: 14
TD%: 5.4%
INT: 8
INT%: 1.5%
Y/A: 7.0
Rating: 95.7
Sacks: 26
SK%: 4.7%

Now keep in mind that Brady's stats also include him having Moss available for 4 games this year (a first ballot HOFer in my opinion). I already showed you the comparison where Cassel has been statistically better since Moss left.

I'm still not sure how I've lost any credibility by comparing him to Brady, because the numbers speak for themselves. Brady does have 3 Super Bowl championships on Cassel, but statistically Matt is just as effective of a passer.

Get Cassel one more solid WR and watch him flourish.