Another for the Cassel haters......

**SIC J** · 10-31-2010, 05:00 PM

It was an ugly game, but when it came down to it, the Chiefs won the game BEHIND CASSEL'S ARM. End of story!!!

Now discuss about how he almost blew the game and blah blah blah and forget that he WON the game for the Chiefs.

Ready and GO!

**SIC J** · 11-09-2010, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Connie Jo

First, I want to clarify that I'm not giving up on Cassel, however, the pass in particular thrown to Bowe was short & low. Bowe had to drop to his knees to attempt making the catch. Yes, it was catchable, and Bowe should've caught it...but it was as much Cassels fault as Bowes...that one is 50/50. I remember Moeaki missing one too, but can't remember the specifics of the ball thrown like I do with the one thrown to Bowe for a 3rd down conversion.

If Bowe would have tried to catch the ball with his HANDS and not his body, he probably would have caught it.

**wilqb16** · 11-09-2010, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by Connie Jo

I remember Moeaki missing one too, but can't remember the specifics of the ball thrown like I do with the one thrown to Bowe for a 3rd down conversion.

The Moeaki one was pretty bad. It was a WR screen (Moeaki was lined up as the split end) and it was perfectly thrown, he went to catch it in his hands and just dropped it. There was a ton of dirt in front of him, too. It was a 3rd and short and he would have gotten the first easily and maybe even scored. It would up being a key play because it was right before the FG turned pooch kick.

My point is that it isn't fair to keep putting things on Cassel. I hear things like Cassel was 4/15 on 3rd down conversions. When did this become an individual sport? Cassel can do everything right and things can work out poorly. Giving Cassel all the blame makes no more sense than trying to give him all the credit when things go well.

**Ryfo18** · 11-09-2010, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by wilqb16

The Moeaki one was pretty bad. It was a WR screen (Moeaki was lined up as the split end) and it was perfectly thrown, he went to catch it in his hands and just dropped it. There was a ton of dirt in front of him, too. It was a 3rd and short and he would have gotten the first easily and maybe even scored. It would up being a key play because it was right before the FG turned pooch kick.

My point is that it isn't fair to keep putting things on Cassel. I hear things like Cassel was 4/15 on 3rd down conversions. When did this become an individual sport? Cassel can do everything right and things can work out poorly. Giving Cassel all the blame makes no more sense than trying to give him all the credit when things go well.

It's because quarterback is the most visible position. It's easy to pin it all on him. You're right though, everyone has to do their part for the team to be successful.

**figcrostic** · 11-09-2010, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by SIC J

If Bowe would have tried to catch the ball with his HANDS and not his body, he probably would have caught it.

Geez your right! Bowe has been playing football at a high level his whole life, was a stud WR at LSU and set TD records, was in contention for a rookie of the year award getting beaten out only by Adrian Peterson that year he led all rookie WR's in yards and TD's, but he sucks and you sir can change all that by just telling him to "Caught the ball with his hands" this whole time he has been catching the ball wrong.

**SIC J** · 11-09-2010, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by figcrostic

Geez your right! Bowe has been playing football at a high level his whole life, was a stud WR at LSU and set TD records, was in contention for a rookie of the year award getting beaten out only by Adrian Peterson that year he led all rookie WR's in yards and TD's, but he sucks and you sir can change all that by just telling him to "Caught the ball with his hands" this whole time he has been catching the ball wrong.

You lack intelligence and the inability to READ.

**Chiefster** · 11-09-2010, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by Connie Jo

First, I want to clarify that I'm not giving up on Cassel, however, the pass in particular thrown to Bowe was short & low. Bowe had to drop to his knees to attempt making the catch. Yes, it was catchable, and Bowe should've caught it...but it was as much Cassels fault as Bowes...that one is 50/50. I remember Moeaki missing one too, but can't remember the specifics of the ball thrown like I do with the one thrown to Bowe for a 3rd down conversion.

...Could you teach my wife how to talk football? I've tried but it just doesn't take.

**CapitalT** · 11-09-2010, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by Ryfo18

Fine, I went back and gave Brady credit for 16 games (simply added two more games on for him):

CMP/ATT: 302/472
CMP%: 63.9%
Yards: 3249
TDs: 21
TD%: 4.4%
INT: 14
INT%: 2.9%
Y/A: 6.9
Rating: 86.5
Sacks: 47
SK%: 9%

Cassel's again:

CMP/ATT: 250/428
CMP%: 58.4% (Keep in mind that up to this point if Bowe catches 4 of his drops, he's at 60%)
Yards: 2824
TDs: 24
TD%: 5.6%
INT: 8
INT%: 1.9%
Y/A: 6.6
Rating: 89.2
Sacks: 22
SK%: 4.9%

I don't see why exactly I lose credibility comparing him to Brady. It's more you that don't want to let this thought enter your head despite everything I've shown you. And once again, this is comparing their first seasons with Weis as the Offensive Coordinator.

But since you want to discount this as Brady's First full season, here's the stats on Brady up until Moss came along and his TD numbers inflated to 50 that year (keep in mind Brady has never thrown for over 30 TDs in a season except for that year).

2002
CMP/ATT: 373/601
CMP%: 62.1%
Yards: 3764
TDs: 28
TD%: 4.7%
INT: 14
INT%: 2.3%
Y/A: 6.3
Rating: 85.7
Sacks: 31
SK%: 4.9%

2003
CMP/ATT: 317/527
CMP%: 60.2%
Yards: 3620
TDs: 23
TD%: 4.4%
INT: 12
INT%: 2.3%
Y/A: 6.9
Rating: 85.9
Sacks: 32
SK%: 5.7%

2004
CMP/ATT: 288/474
CMP%: 60.8%
Yards: 3692
TDs: 28
TD%: 5.9%
INT: 14
INT%: 3%
Y/A: 7.8
Rating: 92.6
Sacks: 26
SK%: 5.2%

2005
CMP/ATT: 334/530
CMP%: 63%
Yards: 4110
TDs: 26
TD%: 4.9%
INT: 14
INT%: 2.6%
Y/A: 7.8
Rating: 92.3
Sacks: 26
SK%: 4.7%

2006
CMP/ATT: 319/516
CMP%: 61.8%
Yards: 3529
TDs: 24
TD%: 4.7%
INT: 12
INT%: 2.3%
Y/A: 6.8
Rating: 87.9
Sacks: 26
SK%: 4.8%

Now as I recall, the original argument was that Cassel could not win a Super Bowl. I've just showed you Brady's numbers in his first 6 seasons as a starter (he won 3 Super Bowls). Based on Cassel's sample size of 8 games this year, he wins in TDs per attempt, INTs per attempt, and QB rating 4 out of the 6 years.

I suppose I could extrapolate Brady's numbers out through the end of this year too:

2010
CMP/ATT: 332/422
CMP%: 63.6%
Yards: 3652
TDs: 14
TD%: 5.4%
INT: 8
INT%: 1.5%
Y/A: 7.0
Rating: 95.7
Sacks: 26
SK%: 4.7%

Now keep in mind that Brady's stats also include him having Moss available for 4 games this year (a first ballot HOFer in my opinion). I already showed you the comparison where Cassel has been statistically better since Moss left.

I'm still not sure how I've lost any credibility by comparing him to Brady, because the numbers speak for themselves. Brady does have 3 Super Bowl championships on Cassel, but statistically Matt is just as effective of a passer.

Get Cassel one more solid WR and watch him flourish.

Do you even watch the games?

**Ryfo18** · 11-09-2010, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by CapitalT

Do you even watch the games?

Yes. Do you study other quarterbacks or do you just go by what you see from Cassel and assume that is the definition of a quarterback that is not good?

I know the throws you saw from Cassel that were inaccurate that you're basing your judgement on. Those are common from just about every quarterback in every game. If your idea of a franchise QB is one that makes every throw in every game with no margin for error, well good luck finding one.

The fact of the matter is that Brady is a product of the system, the same system that Cassel stepped into and went 11-5 with. The same system the Chiefs are implementing right now. It will come with time (it's already starting to form actually).

**CapitalT** · 11-09-2010, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by Ryfo18

Yes. Do you study other quarterbacks or do you just go by what you see from Cassel and assume that is the definition of a quarterback that is not good?

I know the throws you saw from Cassel that were inaccurate that you're basing your judgement on. Those are common from just about every quarterback in every game. If your idea of a franchise QB is one that makes every throw in every game with no margin for error, well good luck finding one.

The fact of the matter is that Brady is a product of the system, the same system that Cassel stepped into and went 11-5 with. The same system the Chiefs are implementing right now. It will come with time (it's already starting to form actually).

You're right - Brady isn't all that good. He's just a product of the system.

**Coach** · 11-09-2010, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by SIC J

I don't think replacing Cassel is going to solve the issue. Bring in a GOOD WR or two and it makes a drastic change in the passing game. No team fears Bowe and Chambers, period!

This!!

I am a Cassel fan mainly because of his toughness. I will agree that Cassel needs to improve his accuracy.

BUT, you have to understand that this is a ball control offense. This teams identity is to run the ball, win the turnover battle, and eliminate penalties. If you accomplish those three things, your odds of winning the football game are extremely high. During the last offseason, Haley must have had someone do statistical analysis of football games. This would explain his fasciniation with going for it on 4th down.

Cassel is putting the ball where only his receivers can catch it most of the time. Sometimes he throws beyond where they can catch it. He is not taking chances with the football. My guess is that these are strict marching orders from Haley/Weis. 3rd down efficiciency needs to improve, but I'd argue equally big parts of our 3rd down struggles are playcalling and dropped passes like the one that cost us this game against the Raiders.