Star Player
Mock #1 1/24/2011
1st)Nate Solder-OT
This completes o-line,, as we have signed Logan Mankins-LG allowing us to slide B Waters to center.
Alberts/Mankins/Waters/Lilja/Solder
2nd)Randall Cobb-WR
This completes rebuild receiving corps, as we have, signed Santana Moss-WR to go along with D-Bowe/McCluster/Moss/Cobb/Young
3rd)Titus Young-WR
5'11" 178 sub 4.4
4th)Sione Fua-NT
5th)Brandon Fusco-C
5th)Greg Romeus-OLB
6th)Ricky Stanzi-QB
7th)Dion Lewis-RB
7th)Matt Szczur-WR
Hall of Famer
Originally Posted by chief31
Didn't need an Offense, huh?. Then why the change of QB's at midseason? To bolster the Offense, of course, and make their team less one-dimensional and more....psssst, what's that word again?....BALANCED. Sorry, but those big play TD's were not irrelevant, they were huge in determining the outcome of those games. They were not the worst Offense in the NFL that year & even though they may have had the worst statistics in the post season, they were not inept -- they scored points when they needed to & if they hadn't, then they don't get to the Super Bowl and win it, even with that great Defense.
Sorry, but there are differences between the 2000 Ravens & those Chiefs teams listed above. The Ravens had a better O-Line than any of those Chiefs teams that included a ....what's that you say again?.... stellar LT named Jon Ogden. And Jamaal Lewis ran for over 100 yards twice in the post season in 2000. Their receiver corps was better than the '92 and '95 Chiefs squads and at least equal to the '97 squad. Like I said before, the Ravens Offense in the 2000 was sufficient, but not inept like the Chiefs squads that were mentioned. I never said the 2000 Ravens Offense was as good as their Defense. But, they were not totally one-dimensional, they had just enough Offense when they needed it.
I don't care who's hyping him up & I'm not giving up anything as I stand by what I said -- I know what I saw when I watched the games. His getting voted to the Pro Bowl doesn't mean squat. Who was AFC's leading QB sacker, but yet didn't get initially voted to the Pro Bowl (Tamba Hali)? That should tell anyone with any common sense that the Pro Bowl voting is based on more on a popularity contest than actual production on the field.
As for being a Pro Bowler for many years -- nobody knows that for certain. If he does, then great, but then again for all anybody knows he could become another injury casualty like 1990 1st rd pick Percy Snow and 2000 1st rd pick Sylvester Morris -- one season and done.
As much as I wished that the one game against the Ravens was a one-time abomination for the O-Line, we'd all be just kidding ourselves if we believed that. It happened multiple times against the type of Defensive front 7's that they are going to have face at least twice as often outside the division & let's not forget in the division, as well.
I agree that WR help is needed, but if Pioli does employ the strategy of just drafting for depth in the later rounds for the O-Line it's more than likely going to backfire on him. He'd be much better served to try and draft a talented OT and a talented Center that can come in and help right now somewhere in the upper rounds. It's inevitable that they are going to have draft some young talent for the O-Line & the time to start is now. Putting it off year after year does not make the problem go away, it only makes it worse.
King Kong
All I was trying to say was that on watching it again, it was not at all a bad game by the O-line. Cassel had plenty of time to throw just about all game. I just rewatched, I was uncomfortable watching him sit in the pocket and look through his progressions before taking a sack. There was a bad play on the Suggs sack by Albert, and the tuck rule play the right side of the line got blew up. Outside of that, I was pretty impressed with how much time they gave him to throw.
I think we'd both agree that the Patriots line is very solid, and they played a lot of the teams we'll have to play next year. Just taking a look across the board (all of these guys were picked by Pioli):
RT - Sebastian Vollmer (Rd 2 pick 58)
RG - Dan Connolly (Practice Squad FA)
C - Dan Koppen (Rd 5 Pick 164)
LG - Logan Mankings (Rd 1 pick 32)
LT - Matt Light (Rd 2 Pick 48)
Pioli does seem to have a knack for finding guys outside of Rd 1 (Mankins was the last pick in the 1st round and is one of the best guards in the league). A guy like Barksdale makes a lot of sense in Rd 2/3. Him or some other schmuck we don't have our eye on yet that Pioli and his scouting department has identified. Not saying it will happen b/c I think he's projected late round 1 early round 2, but a guy like Wisniewski at Center in Rd 2 would also be solid.
Last edited by Ryfo18; 01-31-2011 at 11:26 PM.
Hall of Famer
I picked up on what you saying about the Ravens game -- and I think we both agree that the game seemingly came undone on that botched 4th down play. But what happened against the Raiders twice was a whole different story.
I really believe that Barksdale has a chance to make to #55 as he's been labeled as an underachiever ( I'll gladly take an underachiever that gave up no sacks in every game played in 2010 in the 2nd round ). Asamoah was projected as a 2nd rounder & fell to them in the 3rd round and he wasn't labeled as an underachiever, although that group of O-Lineman in 2010 was far deeper than this year. Regardless, OT should come in the top 2 rounds as your graph of the Pats suggests.
Other Center candidates are Fusco and Kirkpatrick. 4th or 5th round for one of these guys.
King Kong
Asked a couple "draftniks" about Barksdale and they both said "around the 5th round." Granted, these guys aren't Mike Mayock, but they do their homework. If that's the case, I would definitely say he seems like a good fit. Raw talent, and like you said never gave up a sack...Where did you see that?
Worries me that he played Right Tackle while Ciron Black played LT, who wasn't even drafted last year...
Last edited by Ryfo18; 02-01-2011 at 12:17 AM.
King Kong
Cool thanks for the info. Just watching Ciron Black be slated as a mid rounder last year and then not getting picked OR signed to a practice squad raises a flag for me regarding Barksdale. I don't know enough about him though as a player to say he's a steal. From what I hear he's a pretty raw prospect that would need some development, which is understandable for a mid round guy.
Where did our 2nd 5th rounder come from? I'm trying to find out which picks we have exactly. I can't find the compensation for Page either.
Hall of Famer
I found the article posted on Jan 22, 2011 before the East-West Shrine game:
interview,east west shrine,joseph barksdale,lsu | National Football Report
If he lasts until the 5th round and the Chiefs get him with one their two 5th round picks, it'll be the biggest draft day steal for the O-Line since Will Shields in the 3rd round in 1993.KC-How do you feel the season went?
JB-I feel it went really well. I feel I did very well. Definitely alot better than last year, that was one of my goals. I didn’t give up any sacks, that was another one of my goals.
From the Alex Magee trade to TB. Black stunk up the combine last year. If Barksdale can make a decent combine showing, he should be drafted.
Sith Master
First game, against The Broncos...
Denver Broncos at Baltimore Ravens - December 31st, 2000 - Pro-Football-Reference.com
Defense allowed three points. Just give 'em a couple of FGs, and that's all.
Second game, against The Titans...
Baltimore Ravens at Tennessee Titans - January 7th, 2001 - Pro-Football-Reference.com
Defense allows ten points, but scored on an INT TD, and a Blocked FG for another TD.
No offense needed.
Third game, against The Raiders...
Baltimore Ravens at Oakland Raiders - January 14th, 2001 - Pro-Football-Reference.com
Defense allowed three points, and caused five turnovers.
Kick a couple of FG off of those Turnovers, and no need for any more points.
Super Bowl, against The Giants...
Baltimore Ravens vs. New York Giants - January 28th, 2001 - Pro-Football-Reference.com
The defense allowed seven points, and scored on a KR TD and an INT Return TD>
No need for the offense.
All they needed was to have a little bit of time run off the clock, and a Kicker.
Then you don't mean "balanced". Because that is what it means. Even, from one side, to the other.
Hall of Famer
That a bunch of baloney. Their Offense hit for some big play TD's in 3 of those games. If their Offense had not scored points or moved the ball to some degree, they wouldn't have won the SB. You are suggesting that they could have won if their Offense had gone 3 and out on every possession. I watched those games & I know that's not the case.
Nope. They needed timely TD's from their Offense and that was what they got.
That's your definition, not mine. Mine is not being one-dimensional when it comes to football. We are not talking about a weigh-scale here. The only team I can recall that finished 1st in the league in Offense and Defense and won the SB was the '72 Dolphins.
Sith Master
Pretty close. See below....
They didn't manage 300 yards of offense, rushing and passing, combined, in any one of those games. Against The Titans, they only got 134 yards, total, and only had 6 first downs for the game.
Maybe they had a few good games during the regular season. But, once the playoffs came along, they were poor.
What did they need the extra points for? Showmanship?
They scored three TDs in the first game, but only needed six points to win.
After that, the Defense/Return game accounted for just as many TDs as the offense, which was more than their opponents.
57 points (excluding defensive scoring and ST/Return TDs), divided by four games is 14 points per game. How low should it be to be considered 'inept'?
Would you prefer Merriam-Websters' definition?
Last edited by chief31; 02-01-2011 at 07:34 PM.
Hall of Famer
No, they weren't poor. Just efficient enough. They did play against pretty good Defenses, as well. The Chiefs teams of '92, '95 and '97 were poor.
Never heard of a team not trying for an extra point, except when the score a TD in overtime.
Not in the AFC championship game against the Raiders. They hit a 96-yard TD pass in that game that was the games only TD. Like I've said already, their Offense put points on the board when it was needed. Plus, they had a 100 yard rusher in 2 of those games. The Chiefs squads in '92, '95, and '97 didn't.
How about the 0, 7 , and 10 points scored by the Chiefs '92, '95, and '97 squads. That's barely over 5 points per game. How many wins? Zero. That's inept.
No, I prefer my own, regardless if anyone chooses to agree with it or not.
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