Mock #1 1/24/2011

[stevefuller]

1st)Nate Solder-OT
This completes o-line,, as we have signed Logan Mankins-LG allowing us to slide B Waters to center.
Alberts/Mankins/Waters/Lilja/Solder

2nd)Randall Cobb-WR
This completes rebuild receiving corps, as we have, signed Santana Moss-WR to go along with D-Bowe/McCluster/Moss/Cobb/Young

3rd)Titus Young-WR
5'11" 178 sub 4.4

4th)Sione Fua-NT
5th)Brandon Fusco-C
5th)Greg Romeus-OLB
6th)Ricky Stanzi-QB
7th)Dion Lewis-RB
7th)Matt Szczur-WR

[brdempsey69]

Now that's just un-necessary haha.

I was simply re-iterating the idea that you think Berry was horrible this season. If he was really that bad, he should be cut or we should trade him.

I just figured that since it does seem like you contradict or disagree with almost every move the Chiefs do Mr. Hunt should consider you for GM.

all in all, this is the last thing I'll say about the topic, because of it is getting old talking about it. Berry was a rookie, and for being a rookie he had a decent season no matter where he was picked in the draft, he had an impact on the overall success of our defense (I don't see how anyone could argue that); As I always say when people complain about players: It could be worse and we could still have a SS like Mike Brown.

When did I ever use the term "had a horrible season"? I never said that. I said he was disappointing in the area of pass defense. Go watch the Raiders 1st TD in the season final to get an example of what I'm talking about.

When did I say "I disagree with every move the Chiefs do"? I never even implied that. Think for a moment. Disagreeing with every move that the Chiefs brass made would include disagreeing with the 3rd round choices of Asamoah and Moeaki -- nothing could be further from the truth -- those were great value picks, and yes, I liked them better than the 1st three draft choices that the Chiefs made in the 2010 draft.

That's your problem, you are implying things that I never said. It's called ripping things out of context to try to support your arguement. Notice that we were talking about one specific draft choice & I do notice that you never asked what I thought of some of the others. And yet, you came up with this bit a sarcasm about Pioli being replaced by me as GM, almost like a subtle personal attack -- and for what?

My analysis, of Berry still stands, and that's he's got a lot of room for improvement in the area of pass defense. Hopefully, he'll make progress in that area, like Carr did in the 2nd half of the season. How many people were calling for Carr's head & wanting him to be replaced in the 1st half of the season ( this was posted on Chiefs.com repeatedly ) and guess what -- I was not one of them. Nor am I calling for Berry to be replaced -- I simply have stated that I preferred Okung as the Chiefs 1st pick in the 2010 draft and why.

You are incorrect when you imply that I think "Berry had a horrible season". That's not the same as stating as he needs to improve in the area of pass defense. Some have posted that he sucked in that area & although I wouldn't go that far, it does imply that he does need improvement in that area.

[Jrudi]

When did I ever use the term "had a horrible season"? I never said that. I said he was disappointing in the area of pass defense. Go watch the Raiders 1st TD in the season final to get an example of what I'm talking about.

When did I say "I disagree with every move the Chiefs do"? I never even implied that. Think for a moment. Disagreeing with every move that the Chiefs brass made would include disagreeing with the 3rd round choices of Asamoah and Moeaki -- nothing could be further from the truth -- those were great value picks, and yes, I liked them better than the 1st three draft choices that the Chiefs made in the 2010 draft.

That's your problem, you are implying things that I never said. It's called ripping things out of context to try to support your arguement. Notice that we were talking about one specific draft choice & I do notice that you never asked what I thought of some of the others. And yet, you came up with this bit a sarcasm about Pioli being replaced by me as GM, almost like a subtle personal attack -- and for what?

My analysis, of Berry still stands, and that's he's got a lot of room for improvement in the area of pass defense. Hopefully, he'll make progress in that area, like Carr did in the 2nd half of the season. How many people were calling for Carr's head & wanting him to be replaced in the 1st half of the season ( this was posted on Chiefs.com repeatedly ) and guess what -- I was not one of them. Nor am I calling for Berry to be replaced -- I simply have stated that I preferred Okung as the Chiefs 1st pick in the 2010 draft and why.

You are incorrect when you imply that I think "Berry had a horrible season". That's not the same as stating as he needs to improve in the area of pass defense. Some have posted that he sucked in that area & although I wouldn't go that far, it does imply that he does need improvement in that area.

LOL !! You are being totally ridiculous to point where you are not only way off base, but you aren't even remotely in the ball park. Sounds like a sign of being totally puked out because someone else doesn't share the same perspective as you. I never said any of that about Berry being cut, or any of that other nonsense. Must be pretty desperate on your end to have to make things up that are non-existent & were never even implied in the 1st place.

You seem to have this misconception that Chiefs fans owe it the Chiefs brass to agree to every personell decision that they make & have no right to question it. WRONG!! A vast number of Chiefs fans going to question them & so are many others that aren't Chiefs fans. They are entitled to their perspective, whether you agree with it or not. If that bothers you, then that's a personal problem on your end & perhaps mommie will change your diaper for you, fetch your formula for you, and give you a Baby Pat-A-Burp doll to put on your shoulder so that you can cry on its shoulder.

Who's tossing out personal attacks?

Thanks for the fun, it's been a nice argument, but I'm done with it.

[brdempsey69]

Who's tossing out personal attacks?

Thanks for the fun, it's been a nice argument, but I'm done with it.

And who made the unnecessary, sarcastic jab, first? Sorry, but surrender is not in my creed.

[chief31]

If Okung played his position so much better than why am I finding things like this all over the internet?

NFL Gridiron Gab.com; Mid-season report card for the Seahawks and Pete Carroll:

Sacks Allowed
2009: 41 (10th in NFL)
2010: 22 (7th in NFL)
Grade: C-
Rationale: On pace for essentially the same total as last year. That’s a double-edged sword, though. On one side, the damage isn’t on pace to get worse. The flipside? Being top-10 in sacks allowed, especially after spending the franchise’s first overall draft pick last April on an offensive lineman, is not what you’d expect."

Did they take into consideration that that first half of the season included only three games with Okung, and two were games he left with injury?

During the second half of the season, when Okung played 7 of 8 games, they allowed 13 sacks. Double that, to equal a full season, and that would have been good enough to ranked fourth best in The NFL, with 26 Sacks allowed.

Bleacher Report 1st round Rookie Grades:
Eric Berry-A
Okung- C

This evaluation was done when Okung had only seven starts, after week 14. Helping his team to the playoffs, as well as a playoff win against The Saints, may up their grade of Okung.

NFLSOUP.COM- End of year Rookie Rankings
Berry listed as #9; Okung not even on the list. Another Sehawk was mentioned..Earl Thomas was on this lest, and that's funny he plays safety.

[/I]Sound's to me like Okung was the savior of the Seahawks line this year...And I believe that playing an entire season should factor into considering a season is successful. I mean I sure do want my 1st round pick to spend 7 games on the bench because he was hurt, sounds like a good deal for Okung, only play 10 regular season games and get paid like a 1st rounder for the whole season!

Look, I'm not saying Okung will not be a successful player in this league I'm sure he will. I am standing up for Berry, because he didn't have the horrible season you are portraying him to have.

The fact is, we have Berry on our team, we picked him and not Okung. He is helping this team, and because I am a fan I will support him as one of our player's and not dwell on the fact that we didn't take someone else. After 3 or 4 years I will then look to see if he was worth the pick, but even as a rookie he produced nicely. They are both top 10 picks and should help their teams, to say Berry hasn't impacted this team is just ludicrous.

When The Seahawks were playing without Okung, or playing with a recovering Okung, they were allowing sacks at a poor pace.

But, once he made it back to the lineup for good, the impact, as far as Sacks allowed, is pretty clear from the stats I separated above.

I agree that Berry had the better season. In part, because of the number of games played. But I think he had a very good season as well.

However, I would have chosen Okung when we drafted, and would still take Okung, if offered the option, based almost entirely on the positions that they play.

Having said that, I am a big Eric Berry fan, since he was drafted.

I think that he is a big part of why this team was so improved over the previous season.

Players that accumulate statistics are always viewed far more favorably by the mainstream, than players who's job don't include a lot of stats.

That would likely be why Okung, as well as Maurkice Pouncey, was left off that last list. They aren't even on the "honorable mention" list. No stats to report.

[brdempsey69]

^^ Thank you chief31 for your bit of diplomacy. The fact is going into the draft in 2010, I liked Berry, but only to a point and not over Okung. I also pointed out an area that Berry -- pass defense -- needs major improvent in ( Okungs is run blocking ) that anyone who watched the Chiefs games can easily see. Jrudi and others got all defensive about out it, like they worship the guy, or something. I have a Berry jersey, BTW, but I'm not going to worship the guy. Good player, to a degree, yes. Better player than Okung and a better pick at #5 in 2010 draft? NO, sorry, I don't see it that way.

[slc chief]

When did I ever use the term "had a horrible season"? I never said that. I said he was disappointing in the area of pass defense. Go watch the Raiders 1st TD in the season final to get an example of what I'm talking about.

When did I say "I disagree with every move the Chiefs do"? I never even implied that. Think for a moment. Disagreeing with every move that the Chiefs brass made would include disagreeing with the 3rd round choices of Asamoah and Moeaki -- nothing could be further from the truth -- those were great value picks, and yes, I liked them better than the 1st three draft choices that the Chiefs made in the 2010 draft.

That's your problem, you are implying things that I never said. It's called ripping things out of context to try to support your arguement. Notice that we were talking about one specific draft choice & I do notice that you never asked what I thought of some of the others. And yet, you came up with this bit a sarcasm about Pioli being replaced by me as GM, almost like a subtle personal attack -- and for what?

My analysis, of Berry still stands, and that's he's got a lot of room for improvement in the area of pass defense. Hopefully, he'll make progress in that area, like Carr did in the 2nd half of the season. How many people were calling for Carr's head & wanting him to be replaced in the 1st half of the season ( this was posted on Chiefs.com repeatedly ) and guess what -- I was not one of them. Nor am I calling for Berry to be replaced -- I simply have stated that I preferred Okung as the Chiefs 1st pick in the 2010 draft and why.

You are incorrect when you imply that I think "Berry had a horrible season". That's not the same as stating as he needs to improve in the area of pass defense. Some have posted that he sucked in that area & although I wouldn't go that far, it does imply that he does need improvement in that area.

what did you expect of berry in his rookie year.for him to be a shutdown cornerback playing safety.also i am still waiting on another example of a safety being drafted in the top 10.there are none so history only shows.by picking a safety in the top 10 rounds you get a pro bowl player(berry,taylor) mark my words the chiefs 2010 draft will go down as one of the better drafts in rescent history by any team.this will be determined by the professionals who are paid to do so.unfortunantly you are not one of them. you have some good points on other subjects but definantly not this one imo

[brdempsey69]

what did you expect of berry in his rookie year.for him to be a shutdown cornerback playing safety.also i am still waiting on another example of a safety being drafted in the top 10.there are none so history only shows.by picking a safety in the top 10 rounds you get a pro bowl player(berry,taylor) mark my words the chiefs 2010 draft will go down as one of the better drafts in rescent history by any team.this will be determined by the professionals who are paid to do so.unfortunantly you are not one of them. you have some good points on other subjects but definantly not this one imo

I expected him not to stand flat-footed and let receivers run right by him, as I saw on occasion, more than once, I might add. He was drafted to be a pass defender, first and foremost & I've seen many rookie Safeties do a better job in that area than he did -- Lloyd Burruss was one of them. You are also incorrect about no other Safeties being drafted in the top 10, as well as getting a Pro Bowl player if you draft a Safety in the top 10.

WalterFootball.com: NFL Draft - Are Safeties Worth a Top Five NFL Draft Pick?

The only other guy rated as a hit on that list was Eric Turner. He made the Pro Bowl twice & then the team that drafted him let him go after the 1996 season. Turner was drafted #2 overall, and not everyone regards him as a hit that played up to his draft status.

Who are these so-called "paid professionals" that you speak of? Mel Kiper? Todd McShay? Got news for you. Mike Mayock of NFL Network believes that Okung would have been the better pick than Berry. Pete Prisco of CBS sports also didn't give a very high grade to the selection of Berry and also didn't give a very high grade to the Chiefs 2010 draft.

2010 draft being one of the better drafts by anybody? I don't think so. I think it could have been better -- a lot better. I think that were other teams that did better, the Oakland Raiders, for one, unfortunately.

My points that I have made regarding this subject, may not be what you want to hear, but I stand by them, nonetheless. I'm not worried at all whether or not you or anybody else agrees with it.

[slc chief]

I expected him not to stand flat-footed and let receivers run right by him, as I saw on occasion, more than once, I might add. He was drafted to be a pass defender, first and foremost & I've seen many rookie Safeties do a better job in that area than he did -- Lloyd Burruss was one of them. You are also incorrect about no other Safeties being drafted in the top 10, as well as getting a Pro Bowl player if you draft a Safety in the top 10.

WalterFootball.com: NFL Draft - Are Safeties Worth a Top Five NFL Draft Pick?

The only other guy rated as a hit on that list was Eric Turner. He made the Pro Bowl twice & then the team that drafted him let him go after the 1996 season. Turner was drafted #2 overall, and not everyone regards him as a hit that played up to his draft status.

Who are these so-called "paid professionals" that you speak of? Mel Kiper? Todd McShay? Got news for you. Mike Mayock of NFL Network believes that Okung would have been the better pick than Berry. Pete Prisco of CBS sports also didn't give a very high grade to the selection of Berry and also didn't give a very high grade to the Chiefs 2010 draft.

2010 draft being one of the better drafts by anybody? I don't think so. I think it could have been better -- a lot better. I think that were other teams that did better, the Oakland Raiders, for one, unfortunately.

My points that I have made regarding this subject, may not be what you want to hear, but I stand by them, nonetheless. I'm not worried at all whether or not you or anybody else agrees with it.

none of the experts above.i am talking people who have actually played the position at a pro level.deon sanders,rod woodson,rodney harrison.so let me get this straight we need to address berrys safety position via free agency or the draft.because he got beat a couple times and misread some coverages as a rookie.(as according to your bernard pollard of the future post). nope bottom line we no longer need to fill that position because berry did his part as a rookie. and it is no longer a position of need in the upcoming draft. berry has a unbelievable work ethic and awesome knowledge of the game.can he improve yes will he yes.

[tornadospotter]

Who's tossing out personal attacks?

Thanks for the fun, it's been a nice argument, but I'm done with it.

And who made the unnecessary, sarcastic jab, first? Sorry, but surrender is not in my creed.

Read Before Posting - Kansas City Chiefs Forums

Just a reminder about the rules.

[brdempsey69]

none of the experts above.i am talking people who have actually played the position at a pro level.deon sanders,rod woodson,rodney harrison.

They were also DB's -- second nature. I heard Rod Woodson prop up Taylor Mays as well. We see the same thing every year at the draft from former players who say the same thing every year about draftees such as "He's going to be a Pro Bowler" or something along those lines & then the guy is a bust in 3 years & is out of the league and probably delivering pizza to someone's doorstep.

so let me get this straight we need to address berrys safety position via free agency or the draft.because he got beat a couple times and misread some coverages as a rookie.(as according to your bernard pollard of the future post).

No, you haven't got it straight at all. He was beat more than a couple of times. And not because he misread coverage either on many of those occasions. Never said anything about replacing him -- you made that up all on your own. I said that if he doesn't improve in the area of pass defense than he really is no more than a Bernard Pollard clone.

nope bottom line we no longer need to fill that position because berry did his part as a rookie.

In run support, yes (Pollard could have done that ,too ) in pass defense, no. Some said he sucked in that area & although, I wouldn't go as far to say that, he does have a lot of room for improvement.

and it is no longer a position of need in the upcoming draft.

Quite the contrary, the Chiefs do need to add another Safety, but for depth only. Maybe FA.

berry has a unbelievable work ethic and awesome knowledge of the game

Too bad it didn't always translate on the field when it came to pass defense. Often times, he looked bewildered going against receivers that were skilled route runners & some blew right by him like he was standing still. Maybe in the upcoming seasons that'll change. We'll have to wait and see.

can he improve yes will he yes.

You don't know that for certain. Nobody does. With the Chiefs having a tougher schedule in 2011, his 2nd season could wind up going the other way & being far worse than his 1st. Hopefully not, but we'll have to wait and see.