Star Player
Mock #1 1/24/2011
1st)Nate Solder-OT
This completes o-line,, as we have signed Logan Mankins-LG allowing us to slide B Waters to center.
Alberts/Mankins/Waters/Lilja/Solder
2nd)Randall Cobb-WR
This completes rebuild receiving corps, as we have, signed Santana Moss-WR to go along with D-Bowe/McCluster/Moss/Cobb/Young
3rd)Titus Young-WR
5'11" 178 sub 4.4
4th)Sione Fua-NT
5th)Brandon Fusco-C
5th)Greg Romeus-OLB
6th)Ricky Stanzi-QB
7th)Dion Lewis-RB
7th)Matt Szczur-WR
Hall of Famer
[quote=brdempsey69;226651]They were also DB's -- second nature. I heard Rod Woodson prop up Taylor Mays as well. We see the same thing every year at the draft from former players who say the same thing every year about draftees such as "He's going to be a Pro Bowler" or something along those lines & then the guy is a bust in 3 years & is out of the league and probably delivering pizza to someone's doorstep.
No, you haven't got it straight at all. He was beat more than a couple of times. And not because he misread coverage either on many of those occasions. Never said anything about replacing him -- you made that up all on your own. I said that if he doesn't improve in the area of pass defense than he really is no more than a Bernard Pollard clone.
In run support, yes (Pollard could have done that ,too ) in pass defense, no. Some said he sucked in that area & although, I wouldn't go as far to say that, he does have a lot of room for improvement.
Quite the contrary, the Chiefs do need to add another Safety, but for depth only. Maybe FA.
Too bad it didn't always translate on the field when it came to pass defense. Often times, he looked bewildered going against receivers that were skilled route runners & some blew right by him like he was standing still. Maybe in the upcoming seasons that'll change. We'll have to wait and see.
You don't know that for certain. Nobody does. With the Chiefs having a tougher schedule in 2011, his 2nd season could wind up going the other way & being far worse than his 1st. Hopefully not, but we'll have to wait and see.[/
dont care about there tougher schedule your not qualified to call him out bottom line you are making a clown of yourself for doing so
Hall of Famer
Wow, what an astronomical difference in numbers. I am real overwhelmed by the huge impact Berry made regarding those numbers.Originally Posted by Ryfo18
From an honest perspective, his impact was hardly anything to justify his draft status. No way. A Safety like Nate Allen or T.J. Ward drafted in the 2nd round could have made the same impact, maybe even more.
See above. What's next? A punter drafted in the top 5 as well. The point is that good Safeties can be had later on in the draft & it isn't necessary to spend the #5 overall pick on one. 2nd round pick T.J. Ward had more tackles for Cleveland than Berry so by your reasoning, Ward was the better value pick.
They didn't run that alignment 100% of the time and you know that. And you better go back and recount. I know it was more than 6. I've counted at least 8.
Have to check that one against Houston. But, I know that's not the case against the Raiders. He simply did not stay with the receiver like he was supposed to. He had Chaz Shillens one on one & just stood there flat-footed and let Schillens come wide open almost 10 yards behind him. All the QB did was just move to his right a little bit & hadn't come close to getting out of the pocket.
He did something right. He held on to the ball and didn't drop it. Satisfied?
No, that was caused by pressure on the QB that forced an errant throw. Go look at the play again. Without pressure on the QB, there's a good chance that ball isn't thrown in Berry's direction.
I have a Berry jersey. I wore it when I drove from Montana to the Chiefs game against SF in Sept. It's just that I'm not willing to stand in the Kool-Aid box where he's concerned or be a part of the "how dare you scrutinize our false god that we worship so reverently" crowd when someone does scrutinize him.
That remains unproven. As I said before, we'll have to wait and see. If he plays up to the level of past Chiefs Safeties like Johnny Robinson, Deron Cherry, Gary Barbaro, Lloyd Burruss, then I'll give him his due. But it's not etched in stone that he will just because he was drafted #5 overall.
Didn't say he was bust. That remains to be seen. Just said he was overdrafted and wasn't the best pick at #5. He's got potential, but as things stand right now, I couldn't rate him any better than a mid 2nd rounder and that's being generous.
On the contrary I can & there are other Chiefs fans that have done it as well. It's called right to freedom of speech, in case you haven't heard of it. Sounds like your puked out because it's not what you want to hear. Simply don't read the thread, then.
Last edited by brdempsey69; 02-05-2011 at 02:15 AM.
Hall of Famer
dont come on here talking about how the raiders had a great draft. but did not make the playoffs. and the chiefs who won the division had a shi##y draft SCOREBOARD ON THOSE CLOWNS. A BIG REASON WHY WE MADE THE PLAYOFFS WAS BECAUSE OUR DRAFT PICKS(MOEAKI,BERRY,MCLUSTER,AREANAS. 2010 MOST IMPROVED TEAM GUESS WHAT IT WAS THE KC CHIEFS NOT THE GAYDERS OPEN YOUR EYES EXPERT
Hall of Famer
Open your own eyes, you who cannot see outside the Kool-Aid box & look at anything objectively or with any sense of diplomacy. The Raiders did have a great draft & honestly it was better than the Chiefs draft. What rookie on either team had the biggest impact in the 2 games played between the 2 teams? It was the Raiders Jacoby Ford, by far and away. The Raiders got 3 starters from their top 3 picks. The Chiefs got 1 starter and 2 situational players from their top 3 picks. I can talk about the Raiders having a great draft if I wish, because it's the gospel truth, and there's nothing you can do about it.
Sure the Chiefs made the playoffs, but not because they drafted better than the Raiders. The Chiefs draft picks helped, but they a small part of it, not a big part of it. The big reason was the improved play of guys already on the team that stepped up -- that list goes on and on -- and the new coaches added to the staff. Especially Crennel and the defensive coaches.
Hall of Famer
Interceptions are almost never earned. 95% of them are because the QB made a bad throw or because of pressure.
You like ignoring the pass defense stat, but it is still a legit stat that Berry has helped with more than hurt. But he hasn't helped enough to warrant his draft placement? Ever think that a career doesn't equal one year? Nah, that doesn't matter, still not enough.
You wave the banner of Okung over Berry, but think about the Chiefs philosophies. We wanted to run a ball-attacking defense that swarms to the run and, while not making any outstanding plays, is able to do the job well enough defensively.
On offense, our style is running the ball. Okung's biggest weakness is the running game. Think that had something to do with the decision? Pioli and his staff aren't idiots and they knew they couldn't afford set backs. Yes, Okung WOULD have been a set back from their philosophies, despite great pass protection.
Would Okung have helped us out, absolutely. We would have had a lot more depth, though I'm not sure about the running game because Albert would have been moved to guard, and we have good guards already. Unless you mean center for Waters, but Wiegman wasn't bad either.
Either way, this is all a wash, I like Berry and I think he'll do a lot for the team in the future, and when he's knocking people off their legs and setting records for pick sixes, I'll remember this debate.
King Kong
I'm still waiting for these numbers.
Extrapolate out the 2009 numbers to 581 attempts. You arrive at 4415 yards (which would be the worst passing yard mark in 2009 or 2010 for any defense) and 28 TDs given up (6th worst this year). Do you still not see any difference? Or are you blinded by your "we should not have taken Berry" logic? I'll bet on the latter.
Now you're reaching.
Same goes for LT's. Marcus McNeill, Matt Light, Michael Roos, Roger Saffold (actually allowed less sacks than Okung and played 6 more games), and on and on...
You sure about that?
Who knows what the number is, all we know is that Berry boasts the 4th most passes defensed out of all the strong safeties.
I'm confusing Oakland with another game...I can't remember at this point without digging deep.
Which is how most interceptions in the NFL occur. He still jumped the route to make a play on the ball.
Of course not, but he had a solid season as a rookie safety. Hard to imagine what a little experience might do for him...
Fine...a minority opinion that the majority of analysts will disagree with you on.
Can you show me where these are again?
King Kong
It's also no secret that the Chiefs led the league in 10+ yd carries to the left side with 36 (2nd highest was 28). I get it, we had Jamaal Charles, but Albert's doing something right. Seattle finished stellar in that same category......4th worst...Also had 21 plays of "negative" gains to the left side. I'm sure those all occurred in the 6 games Okung missed though.
Dude, we would have won the Super Bowl if we had Okung. Everyone knows you can't win a Super Bowl if you don't have a stellar left tackle, unless you're the Saints, Steelers, Giants, Colts, Bucs, or 75% of the other teams that have won Super Bowls.
Starter
The point of the thread is mocking who we WILL get. We HAVE Eric Berry and it is what it is. I'm a huge fan of Berry and think he plays spectacular against the run and about as well as expected in pass defense as a rookie. Apparently everyone thought Berry should have made the defense #1 after a year. Every draft expert said our rookies last year would make big contributions as rookies. Imagine how much better they will be after a year in the system.
To make a relevant post to this thread, my mock would probably be at this moment:
1st Round- OLB Houston(Georgia)
It's so early taht I'll just add the players what I wouldn't mind being drafted.
WR: Austin Pettus, Vincent Brown, Greg Salas, Leonard Hankerson, Randall Cobb
DT: Phil Taylor, Simone Fua, Jerrel Powe, Drake Nevis
QB(the next backup) McElroy, Dalton or Colin Kaepernick
OLB: Acho
OL: I need to do more reserach as I don't see KC picking an OL early. I wouldn't mind to see the USC OT Tyron Smith.
King Kong
I like Houston, and Aldon Smith as well. There's some good videos out there of Smith making Nate Solder (one of the top OT prospects) look foolish. Same is true of Von Miller, but he's sounding like he'll go within the top 10, maybe to Arizona or Buffalo in the top 5.
Hall of Famer
What for are you asking for that which you have already posted? And why no mention of the number of sacks and pressures on the opposing QB's in 2010 versus 2009, that anyone who watched the games both seasons could easily see, which blows your so-called "extrapolation" all to hell? Who's being blinded here?
It's already been mentioned several times about the revamped Defensive front 7 & yet you keep insisting on refusing to give the credit to them for the improved pass defense numbers -- and for what? So we can glorify a guy that had very little to do with those improved numbers in the passing game. Nobody can dispute the fact that without the improved front 7, Berry and the rest of the secondary would have struggled & the numbers would have been the same as 2009 or maybe even worse -- and that with an easier schedule. And with that, I can see why some fans are wanting a pass-rusher drafted at #21 in 2011.
McNeill didn't play 6 more games than Okung. And the numbers as far as sacks isn't astronomical. And you forgot to mention that Okung didn't give up a sack in the post-season in 80+ pass attempts in the 2 post season games. Add to the fact that Okung missed a lot of the preseason & training camp & part of the regular season because of those freak injuries that happened -- along with the fact he played hurt -- Okung's overall performance in his 1st year in the NFL was far more impressive than Berry's.
Apparently, you don't get it. You take Charles out of the lineup & that number of 10+ yard carries goes way down. It's already been mentioned before that Albert's run blocking is very good, but outside of Charles, none of the other backs averaged over 4 yards per carry.
And who's doing the reaching, now? Do you really believe that those negative plays were because Okung can't run block? And just how explosive are Seattle's RB's compared to Charles? Got news for you, many of those negative plays were due to penetration allowed by Seattle's LG and C. I know, because I watched the games. I've also seen more than one post elsewhere from Seattle fans wanting both of those positions upgraded this off-season.
And how many teams that have drafted Safeties in the top 10 have won Super Bowls? Zero, just like this article points out.
http://walterfootball.com/nfldraftsafeties.php
Not sure of the accuracy of those percentages regarding LT's and Super Bowl victories, but even if they are accurate, I'll still take 25% over 0% anytime.
On the contrary, I haven't ignored the Defensive passing stats, I've simply given credit where credit was really due and that's to a revamped front 7 seven that did a much better job of rushing the passer & I've made mention of that repeatedly regarding the defensive passing stats. Therefore, how is it that you say that I've been ignoring the pass defense stats, when in fact, I haven't?
Disagree, I'd say it was about even. He gave up more TD's than any of the other DB's. He tackled well in the open field for the most part, which helped to some degree. And what stat? Other than maybe passes defended. Take away the improved pass rush and those number of passes defended probably becomes redundant.
Honestly, no not as of yet. There's a chance he still can. Time will tell.
Captain Obvious strikes again. Everybody and their brother and sister is well aware that one year doesn't always equal an NFL career, barring major injuries -- see Sylvester Morris.
So, is that any different from you waving your banner of Berry over Okung? And would you still be waving your Berry banner if the Chiefs had taken Okung? I highly doubt it.
So what's to say that a Safety drafted in the 2nd round like T.J. Ward or Nate Allen couldn't have helped in that area? Especially combined with an improved Defensive front 7.
LOL, what a crock of BS. Did you gut that info out of a Cracker Jack box or what? At Oklahoma State in his senior year Okung scored 133 knockdown blocks and during his tenure, OSU was the leading rushing team in their conference for 4 straight years -- and Okung had a lot to do with that. Run blocking is not a weakness of Okung -- when he locks on to defenders, the play is essentially over for them 99% of the time, and often times he decks them on their arse. I can't believe you or anyone would make the statement that Okung would set the Chiefs back in their running game. You have nothing whatsoever to substantiate that -- in fact, a fart from a beaver in a tree is more substantial than that ridiculous statement.
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