Mock #1 1/24/2011

[stevefuller]

1st)Nate Solder-OT
This completes o-line,, as we have signed Logan Mankins-LG allowing us to slide B Waters to center.
Alberts/Mankins/Waters/Lilja/Solder

2nd)Randall Cobb-WR
This completes rebuild receiving corps, as we have, signed Santana Moss-WR to go along with D-Bowe/McCluster/Moss/Cobb/Young

3rd)Titus Young-WR
5'11" 178 sub 4.4

4th)Sione Fua-NT
5th)Brandon Fusco-C
5th)Greg Romeus-OLB
6th)Ricky Stanzi-QB
7th)Dion Lewis-RB
7th)Matt Szczur-WR

[Ryfo18]

Totally bogus, it WAS in his zone

If this were Berry's zone, then it would be a cover 2. 3 people deep on a cover 2 never happens.

and he was line up opposite him. Why do you think Berry was chasing after him the whole play? Because it was his job to pick up Gaffney on the play and stay with him. You have no guarantees whatsoever as to who got yelled at the film room. Prices 1/3 was on the other side of the field. Berry is off the screen at 14 seconds because that's how badly beaten he was.

Hali was also lined up opposite him, does that make that his guy?

It was not his job to pick up Gaffney and stay with him. If the other WR Lloyd runs deep, Carr is not following him, Berry has to pick him up in his 1/3rd. That is why he cannot just follow Gaffney all over the field. He was never "beat".

Here is how the cover 3 works. It's a little different than the actual image b/c Johnson was deep, but you get the point.



I am 100% certain that Berry did not get yelled at on this play.

Why did think Orton threw the ball to Gaffney on the play -- because he saw how badly Gaffney had beaten Berry on the play. DJ and Price might have gone for the play-fake, but there was no reason for Berry to when the receiver was running straight at him.

Incorrect, it's because he saw a hole in the zone.

Regardless of what ever coverage one wants to call it, Berry did not even come close to staying with Gaffney, even if he was 10 yards off him -- for all that was worth, he would have been better served coming up into the 5 yard zone and trying to jam him.

The first bolded statement: This is a good thing, that means he was doing his job.

The second bolded statement: This would be a bad thing, this is not what he's assigned to do.

So therefore I charge him with that TD. It was still Berry's side of the field where the receiver started his route & it came right at Berry. He just flat out got smoked.

I realize all the babbling you just did justified it in your head, and if you want to count him for a TD you can. But you are not even close to correct, nor are you remotely understanding the coverage that the Chiefs had called. I usually view you as a pretty football savvy guy, but you trying not to be wrong in this instance is hurting your credentials.

[chief31]

Totally bogus, it WAS in his zone, and he was line up opposite him. Why do you think Berry was chasing after him the whole play? Because it was his job to pick up Gaffney on the play and stay with him. You have no guarantees whatsoever as to who got yelled at the film room. Prices 1/3 was on the other side of the field. Berry is off the screen at 14 seconds because that's how badly beaten he was.

Bottom line? You have your mind made up about Berry, and will not change it no matter how wrong one might prove you to be.

You either have no idea of how defense works, or are just acting like you don't, so you can justify the mistaken judgement on Berry during that play.

Why is DJ even there? was it his man?

No? It was Berry's man?

Then what the he** is Derrick Johnson doing way back there?

It was a cover-2, with DJ playing man against the inside receiver. And the ball was caught in the 'seam', to the right of the offenses right hash mark (or the defenses left).

Cover-2, or cover-3, it was not Berry's zone.

And it most certainly wasn't his man. It was DJ's man. He and Price were burnt on the play.

[Three7s]

Bottom line? You have your mind made up about Berry, and will not change it no matter how wrong one might prove you to be.

You either have no idea of how defense works, or are just acting like you don't, so you can justify the mistaken judgement on Berry during that play.

Why is DJ even there? was it his man?

No? It was Berry's man?

Then what the he** is Derrick Johnson doing way back there?

It was a cover-2, with DJ playing man against the inside receiver. And the ball was caught in the 'seam', to the right of the offenses right hash mark (or the defenses left).

Cover-2, or cover-3, it was not Berry's zone.

And it most certainly wasn't his man. It was DJ's man. He and Price were burnt on the play.

I gave credit to the Broncos when the play happened. They found a great mismatch and took it.

I'm pretty sure this is how the coverage went. Denver had Lloyd and Royal as the outside receivers, and moved Gaffney to the slot. Normally, Arenas would take the slot guy, but we aren't in nickel coverage, so a LB was on him instead, that being DJ.

Knowing this, a safety was put over the top to help DJ, and that was Price. Flowers was 1 on 1 with Royal and Carr had Lloyd. I'm pretty sure Berry was giving Carr help on Lloyd, but he may have had other responsibilities.

IMO, if anything is to blame on that play, it is the fact that we had a 3rd string safety in that has no idea how to cover. I can't blame DJ because LBs shouldn't cover WRs.

[brdempsey69]

If this were Berry's zone, then it would be a cover 2. 3 people deep on a cover 2 never happens.

It was a cover 2, there wasn't 5 DB's on the field, there was 4. DJ just happened to see the play was a pass ( he was playing run) & hustled back as best he could ( and a damned good effort at that ).

Hali was also lined up opposite him, does that make that his guy?

Hali dropped into a short zone on that play. Common sense would tell anyone that a wide receiver running a deep route is the responsibility of the DB line up behind him.

It was not his job to pick up Gaffney and stay with him. If the other WR Lloyd runs deep, Carr is not following him, Berry has to pick him up in his 1/3rd. That is why he cannot just follow Gaffney all over the field. He was never "beat".

That's pure BS. Carr went man to man on Lloyd who ran an out and up along the sideline & Carr stayed with him & would have followed Lloyd the whole way thoughout his route. It was Berry's job to stay with Gaffney & he got beat on a post pattern going across from the left hashmark to the right hashmark. Berry's job was to pick up Gaffney on the play.

I've looked at the vid and at 00:13 you can see Price is 20 yards on the opposite side of the field from where Gaffney is. It's clearly the job of the Safety (Berry) on the other side of the field to pick up Gaffney, not Price.

Here is how the cover 3 works. It's a little different than the actual image b/c Johnson was deep, but you get the point.



I am 100% certain that Berry did not get yelled at on this play.

That isn't even the formations that either team was lined up in, so what's the point of that diagram? It's doesn't illustrate anything and is totally useless. Johnson was not deep, he lined up 5 yard from the line of scrimmage where he normally lines up. It was NOT a cover 3, it was a cover 2 that the Chiefs were lined up in. There was no nickel back as seen in that graph -- Vrabel, Belcher, DJ, and Hali were all on the field on that play. For all that diagram is worth, you can print it out & if you run out of toilet paper, then it will come in handy.

Incorrect, it's because he saw a hole in the zone.

Orton saw that Gaffney had Berry beaten to the inside on the play. The play action was to sell run to other side of the field and freeze the defenders on that side of the field. DJ and Price did a creditable job trying to get into the play and help out.

The first bolded statement: This is a good thing, that means he was doing his job.

The second bolded statement: This would be a bad thing, this is not what he's assigned to do.

His job is to get beaten by receivers that he's supposed to cover? I've never heard of that being the job of any DB in the history of the NFL? That's news to me.

Coming up and jamming the receiver a bad thing? It would've destroyed the timing of that play. Even if he's not assigned to do that, he still was assigned to pick up Gaffney on that play, regardless, just based on the formation alone.

I realize all the babbling you just did justified it in your head, and if you want to count him for a TD you can.

It's been justified by my eyes -- by what I saw. The babbling is all on your side.

But you are not even close to correct, nor are you remotely understanding the coverage that the Chiefs had called.

You call it cover 3, it was cover 2. You are incorrect & who's really lacking the understanding here?

I usually view you as a pretty football savvy guy, but you trying not to be wrong in this instance is hurting your credentials.

Same old story -- can't shoot down the message, so shoot the messenger.

I don't care what you think of my football knowledge. That's a lot more laughable than you know. I don't care about your football knowledge either, did you notice that?

Bottom line? You have your mind made up about Berry, and will not change it no matter how wrong one might prove you to be.

Show me the proof. And let Berry prove it on the field. It's up to him to change my mind.

You either have no idea of how defense works, or are just acting like you don't, so you can justify the mistaken judgement on Berry during that play.

Not the case, I've reviewed the play multiple times and there's no mistaking it.

Why is DJ even there? was it his man?

Great hustle on DJ's part. No, it was not his man. DJ was playing run first, then saw it was a pass and ran back to try to help out.

No? It was Berry's man?

Most certainly was Berry's man. He just got smoked.

Then what the he** is Derrick Johnson doing way back there?

See above response regarding DJ.

It was a cover-2, with DJ playing man against the inside receiver. And the ball was caught in the 'seam', to the right of the offenses right hash mark (or the defenses left).

No DJ wasn't playing man against the inside receiver. He was playing run first and came a couple of steps toward the line of scrimmage when the play started. Once he saw pass he ran back towards the deep zone.

Cover-2, or cover-3, it was not Berry's zone.

It was his job to pick up the receiver on his side of the field, in this case Gaffney. Gaffney ran a post pattern from the left hashmark to the right hashmark & left Berry in the dust.

And it most certainly wasn't his man. It was DJ's man. He and Price were burnt on the play.

No way was it DJ's man. It was Berry's man. Price was on the other side of the field at least 25 yards away from where Gaffney made his break to the inside. Somehow I suspect that if Berry & Price had been lined up on opposite sides of the field, Price would still get the blame & people would say "it wasn't Berry's fault because he was lined up on the opposite side of the field" -- but that wasn't the case, now was it?

[Ryfo18]

It was a cover 2, there wasn't 5 DB's on the field, there was 4. DJ just happened to see the play was a pass ( he was playing run) & hustled back as best he could ( and a damned good effort at that ).

The coverage is not determined by the personnel you have in place.

You call it cover 3, it was cover 2. You are incorrect & who's really lacking the understanding here?

In this case, as you acknowledged, DJ was in deep coverage. So what we have is a 3-deep cover 2 zone...better known as a cover 3.

[Ryfo18]

I just realized I was kind of wrong. The defense they employed play has the official name of a "Tampa 2", but it's similar to the cover 3 in the sense that you have 3 deep. As the Wikipedia page will tell you: "The defense is similar to a Cover 2 defense, except the middle linebacker drops into a deep middle coverage for a Cover 3."

Notice in the image, the 2 safeties take a 1/3rd of the field and middle linebacker drops back and takes the middle 1/3rd. It doesn't matter what the offense lines up in, these are the zones each player is responsible for.

[Ryfo18]

And here is a nice YouTube video of former Super Bowl winning coach Brian Billick explaining the Tampa 2, and the MLB's duty.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUv_3SdfrJA"]YouTube - Billick Chalktalk 101 -- More on Tampa 2 and 3-deep defenses[/ame]






Here's one on a basic cover 2 if anyone is interested. The emphasis, and you'll hear Billick say it, is "2 deep".

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2f_qFhT1m7o"]YouTube - Billick Chalktalk 101 explains the "Tampa 2" defense[/ame]

[brdempsey69]

The coverage is not determined by the personnel you have in place.

In this case, as you acknowledged, DJ was in deep coverage. So what we have is a 3-deep cover 2 zone...better known as a cover 3.

DJ was not in deep coverage on that play & there was nothing in my posts to suggest otherwise. As I had said, he simply played the run first & hustled back when he saw it was a pass.

[Ryfo18]

DJ was not in deep coverage on that play & there was nothing in my posts to suggest otherwise. As I had said, he simply played the run first & hustled back when he saw it was a pass.

But in a cover 2, as you said the Chiefs were in earlier, he's not responsible for deep coverage. He's responsible for intermediate routes in the middle of the field. Why on earth would he sprint backwards so fast the second he realizes it's not a run?

[Ryfo18]

DJ was not in deep coverage on that play & there was nothing in my posts to suggest otherwise. As I had said, he simply played the run first & hustled back when he saw it was a pass.

There WAS something in your post to suggest otherwise.

No DJ wasn't playing man against the inside receiver. He was playing run first and came a couple of steps toward the line of scrimmage when the play started. Once he saw pass he ran back towards the deep zone.