Mock #1 1/24/2011

[stevefuller]

1st)Nate Solder-OT
This completes o-line,, as we have signed Logan Mankins-LG allowing us to slide B Waters to center.
Alberts/Mankins/Waters/Lilja/Solder

2nd)Randall Cobb-WR
This completes rebuild receiving corps, as we have, signed Santana Moss-WR to go along with D-Bowe/McCluster/Moss/Cobb/Young

3rd)Titus Young-WR
5'11" 178 sub 4.4

4th)Sione Fua-NT
5th)Brandon Fusco-C
5th)Greg Romeus-OLB
6th)Ricky Stanzi-QB
7th)Dion Lewis-RB
7th)Matt Szczur-WR

[chief31]

none of the experts above.i am talking people who have actually played the position at a pro level.deon sanders,rod woodson,rodney harrison.

All of those guys are DBs. Of course they will think more highly of DBs than others.

so let me get this straight we need to address berrys safety position via free agency or the draft.because he got beat a couple times and misread some coverages as a rookie.(as according to your bernard pollard of the future post).

I didn't see this mentioned before now.

nope bottom line we no longer need to fill that position because berry did his part as a rookie. and it is no longer a position of need in the upcoming draft. berry has a unbelievable work ethic and awesome knowledge of the game.can he improve yes will he yes.

Will he? Probably.

I like Berry. I even think that Brdempsey is biased in his assessment of Berry's pass protection. Not much. But to a degree.

But, of course, there is no guarantee that he will improve.

They were also DB's -- second nature. I heard Rod Woodson prop up Taylor Mays as well. We see the same thing every year at the draft from former players who say the same thing every year about draftees such as "He's going to be a Pro Bowler" or something along those lines & then the guy is a bust in 3 years & is out of the league and probably delivering pizza to someone's doorstep.



No, you haven't got it straight at all. He was beat more than a couple of times. And not because he misread coverage either on many of those occasions. Never said anything about replacing him -- you made that up all on your own. I said that if he doesn't improve in the area of pass defense than he really is no more than a Bernard Pollard clone.

Certainly an exaggeration.

I think that cutting Pollard was a terrible idea. But his weakness against the pass was definitely more defined than Berry's.

In run support, yes (Pollard could have done that ,too ) in pass defense, no. Some said he sucked in that area & although, I wouldn't go as far to say that, he does have a lot of room for improvement.

I also think that Berry is better than Pollard in run defense. One could look into missed tackles for evidence.

Now you have to know that does not include the number of passes thrown in the said players direction, as well as passes caught by opposing receivers against said player -- especially ones that went for TD's. It also doesn't include the number of dodged bullets, where said player was soundly beaten by the opposing receiver, but the ball was either dropped, overthrown, etc..

Of course, that kind of breakdown could be made of any statistic.

Berry ranked 43rd in The NFL in PDef, and that includes all defensive positions.

Oddly enough, the second highest total in The NFL was our own Brandon Carr, with 26 (Tied).

Also, Flowers (14 ranking 22nd) and DJ (17 ranking 18th) ranked pretty high.

NFL Stats: by Player Category

I agree that it is not the most conclusive of stats. But you do have to do something to acquire them.

Sorry, but I can't put any stock in those numbers & until I see differently in the upcoming seasons, Berry does look like a Pollard clone thus far. Hopefully that will change. We'll have to wait and see.

Harsh words. And I like Pollard.

If the stats alone don't create separation between the two, wouldn't you want to look directly into the team's defensive performances?

Those, combined with with the individual stats, should get Berry ahead of Pollard.

Nothing was thrown out. I simply pointed out things that factored into those stats that I suspect that you may have to failed consider before posting about them.

Actually... you did sort of throw them out....

Sorry, but I can't put any stock in those numbers

So what? I can show stats that they had a better pass rush in 2010, (Due to better coverage?) were better against the run & total yards allowed overall. That improvement came from a revamped front 7. I can also show stats that the numbers regarding pass defense were very similar in 2010 to 2009. None of them justify taking a Safety with the #5 overall pick.

Of course, I agree.

Which leads to the obvious question that still remains unanswered: Why take a Safety at #5 if he's a liability in pass coverage like all the others? Jerome Woods was drafted in the late 1st round & Reggie Tongue in the 2nd round in 1996. Both became starters in their 2nd seasons & had great seasons in 1997 as 1st year starters. Perhaps Berry will do the same in 2011. Greg Wesley was 3rd round pick in 2000 and was a starter right away and played just as well as Berry did in 2010. Point is none of those guys were hyped up the way Berry has been or over-drafted.

Well... Not quite.

Greg Wesley Stats - Oakland Raiders - ESPN

Eric Berry, SS for the Kansas City Chiefs at NFL.com

Wesley - 84 Tackles, 7 PDs, 1 Sack, 2 INTs, 2 FFs.
Berry - 92 Tackles, 9 PDs (*), 2 Sacks, 4 INTs, 1 FFs.

(*) - Strange. But NFL.com has Berry raked with 13 PDs on the sortable stats rankings, but only 9 PDs on his individual player page.

Wesley did very well, statistically. B ut he fell short of Berry in all catergories. (Regarding INTs + FFs as Forced TOs.)

Why thank you. When you can substantially prove me wrong beyond a shadow of a doubt ( which you've haven't as of yet succeeded to do ), I'll be the first to let you know.

Can I try?

The 2000 Ravens (I know. Just let me throw this one out there...) in their second playoff game, against The Titans, managed only 134 yards of offense, and posted ten points, not enough to win the game, as The Titans scored ten also.

But the Defense/Special Teams added two TDs (game-winner included), while holding their opponent to just ten points.

Is it safe to say that That team, if only for that playoff game, was unbalanced?

Basically, as the current topic is concerned, I think that Brdempsey is quick to discredit any positive about Berry, and just as quick to spotlight any negative, due to a bias, caused from his opinion that we drafted the wrong player in the '09 draft. An opinion that I share.

But one needn't try to knock the wrong player (Berry) in order to make the case for the right player (Okung).

The case is valid, even if one concedes that Berry is an excellent SS.

[brdempsey69]

Can I try?

The 2000 Ravens (I know. Just let me throw this one out there...) in their second playoff game, against The Titans, managed only 134 yards of offense, and posted ten points, not enough to win the game, as The Titans scored ten also.

But the Defense/Special Teams added two TDs (game-winner included), while holding their opponent to just ten points.

Is it safe to say that That team, if only for that playoff game, was unbalanced?

For that game, yes. All throughout the postseason, no.

Basically, as the current topic is concerned, I think that Brdempsey is quick to discredit any positive about Berry, and just as quick to spotlight any negative, due to a bias, caused from his opinion that we drafted the wrong player in the '09 draft. An opinion that I share.

But one needn't try to knock the wrong player (Berry) in order to make the case for the right player (Okung).

The case is valid, even if one concedes that Berry is an excellent SS.

Not so much discredit what he did that was positive, but to point out that there are negatives that need to be corrected or else the results could be disaster -- the most recent one was in the Pro Bowl, when he foolishly tried to tackle Steven Jackson high around the shoulders after Jackson had broken through the line of scrimmage and built up a full head of steam. Jackson trampled Berry into the turf like Berry was a paper soldier and ran into the end zone. Berry was lucky he didn't get maimed on that play.

Hopefully, Berry learned his lesson and he would do well to watch films of Deron Cherry and the way that Cherry made several great one-on-one tackles on the Raiders Bo Jackson back in the day -- the trick was Cherry didn't try to tackle Jackson high.

I like Berry, but not to the point where I'm going to worship him like so many others do. To me, he's got a lot to prove to justify his draft status. Time will tell.

[chief31]

Wesley - 84 Tackles, 7 PDs, 1 Sack, 2 INTs, 2 FFs.
Berry - 92 Tackles, 9 PDs (*), 2 Sacks, 4 INTs, 1 FFs.

(*) - Strange. But NFL.com has Berry raked with 13 PDs on the sortable stats rankings, but only 9 PDs on his individual player page.

I figured this out.

INTs are accumulated as PDef on the rankings, while they are kept separate on the individual player's page.

DUH!!!

[slc chief]

For that game, yes. All throughout the postseason, no.



Not so much discredit what he did that was positive, but to point out that there are negatives that need to be corrected or else the results could be disaster -- the most recent one was in the Pro Bowl, when he foolishly tried to tackle Steven Jackson high around the shoulders after Jackson had broken through the line of scrimmage and built up a full head of steam. Jackson trampled Berry into the turf like Berry was a paper soldier and ran into the end zone. Berry was lucky he didn't get maimed on that play.

Hopefully, Berry learned his lesson and he would do well to watch films of Deron Cherry and the way that Cherry made several great one-on-one tackles on the Raiders Bo Jackson back in the day -- the trick was Cherry didn't try to tackle Jackson high.

I like Berry, but not to the point where I'm going to worship him like so many others do. To me, he's got a lot to prove to justify his draft status. Time will tell.

the defensive players are told not to hit hard or play at the high level they are used to in the pro bowl. due to injury concerns. duh he is not going to go for jackson's legs and establish a hit that he would have in the regular season.to call him out in a play during the pro bowl is stupid.why do you think there was 90+ points scored in that game.give me a break.i seen berry make a ton of open field tackles during the regular season.i can not wait untill you get proven wrong even more when you see how much more he develops in his 2nd year.

[chief31]

For that game, yes. All throughout the postseason, no.

Then, if not for that imbalance, they don't play another game?

Would you have been able to muster an argument for their balance, had they lost that game?

Not so much discredit what he did that was positive, but to point out that there are negatives that need to be corrected or else the results could be disaster

I see that.

But do you see where you have discredited the PDef stat, and undermined the INTs, by pointing to luck?

-- the most recent one was in the Pro Bowl, when he foolishly tried to tackle Steven Jackson high around the shoulders after Jackson had broken through the line of scrimmage and built up a full head of steam. Jackson trampled Berry into the turf like Berry was a paper soldier and ran into the end zone. Berry was lucky he didn't get maimed on that play.

Pro Bowl... 'Nuff said. Surely you noticed that all defenders were taking it easy?

Hopefully, Berry learned his lesson and he would do well to watch films of Deron Cherry and the way that Cherry made several great one-on-one tackles on the Raiders Bo Jackson back in the day -- the trick was Cherry didn't try to tackle Jackson high.

I like Berry, but not to the point where I'm going to worship him like so many others do. To me, he's got a lot to prove to justify his draft status. Time will tell.

I agree that he has to be an absolute standout to warrant having taken him over Okung.

But I try to make sure to separate that judgement from my actual evaluation of him as a player. Because my evaluation of him against Okung is going to be different from an evaluation of him, disregarding his draft status.

[slc chief]

On the contrary, the stupidity is all on your side -- you didn't even see the play, did you? What you're saying about basic form tackling not applying to the Pro Bowl is just utter nonsense. And do you really think that it's going to hurt my feelings if Berry does develop & blossom into the stud Safety that people are projecting him to be? Do you really believe that? If you do, then like I said, the stupidity is all your side.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y40MCxh2uLw"]YouTube - Eric Berry 2010 Chiefs Highlights[/ame]

[brdempsey69]

So what? That has nothing to do with what happened in the Pro Bowl.

[slc chief]

So what? That has nothing to do with what happened in the Pro Bowl.

forget the pro bowl you have been bashing him on his whole season

[brdempsey69]

Then, if not for that imbalance, they don't play another game?

Would you have been able to muster an argument for their balance, had they lost that game?

You answered your own question there.

I see that.

But do you see where you have discredited the PDef stat, and undermined the INTs, by pointing to luck?

Didn't say it was luck. I said that anyone's granny could have made those INT's.

Pro Bowl... 'Nuff said. Surely you noticed that all defenders were taking it easy?

That play had nothing to do with anyone taking it easy. Steven Jackson certainly didn't take it easy on Berry, the way he trampled him into the turf. Berry tried to put a kill-shot on Jackson needlessly, when he could have easily made a clean tackle around Jackson's ankles and brought him down.

I agree that he has to be an absolute standout to warrant having taken him over Okung.

Actually, there's a better way. Draft some talented O-Lineman in the upcoming 2011 draft. In other words, get the missing pieces of the puzzle in 2011 that were not gotten in 2010.

But I try to make sure to separate that judgement from my actual evaluation of him as a player. Because my evaluation of him against Okung is going to be different from an evaluation of him, disregarding his draft status.

Even disregarding his draft status or evaluation against Okung, Berry is still not a finished product. He's got much room for improvement.

[brdempsey69]

forget the pro bowl you have been bashing him on his whole season

And so what if your feelings are hurt about him being scrutinized. I call it like I see it. By contrast, people were pointing fingers at Brandon Carr during the 1st half of the season and wanting him replaced & yet these same people were so forgiving of Berry whenever he struggled in pass defense. No sense of diplomacy. Which player is getting paid more & forget about number of years in the league -- that's just a copout. Carr stepped up his game. Berry needs to do the same.