Unions

[Hayvern]

In the main topic area, I have been ranting on unions lately, and I think I should explain why I have such hatred for unions.

I worked in a number of unions in my years being on this planet. My first foray into the world of legalized extortion came when I worked on a Government contract installing public utilities. To work for the government you had to be in a union. It did not say what union it had to be, so my company chose a different union than the local chapter.

So we got picketed. I remember having a guy standing over me as I was working hooking up a natural gas line and had him screaming at me, all the time he was standing there with a lit cig and endangering my life. We called the police, but was told there was nothing they could do. So for two weeks these guys put not only MY life, but the lives of many other people in danger for their "right" to picket my workplace.

It did not stop there though. We would come in to work and find our equipment dangerously sabotaged. One morning, the lug nuts had been loosened on my work truck, had I not been diligent about inspecting the truck each morning me and my crew could have been killed.

My next round came when I worked in the public school system. They took my monthly dues, no matter if I wanted them to or not. Oh, they game me a choice to not be in the union, but they were going to take my dues anyway. Then, they took those same dues and used them to support government legislation that ultimately led to my job being taken away. There was no defense for me, I was let go unceremoniously and left without the 2 years of dues I paid for nothing.

Unions had a purpose at one point, and they could still have a purpose again, but the unyielding attitude of the people who are members of those unions need to change. The days of the union caring about the workers are over, they are some of the most powerful organizations in the United States and are certainly more powerful than the very CEOs that end up hiring their workers. Something is terribly wrong with that.

[chief31]

I don't even know where to begin.......

Where do you think those due's you pay go?

Well, you didn't bother to answer my question. But I'll gladly answer yours.

I don't know exactly where all of it goes, but I do know that alot of it goes to lobbying efforts. The game is dirty, but you have to play the game, or it will played against you.

I know that some goes to professionals at the game of dirt. Can't just play with regular guys, need experts.

I also know that some of it goes into strike funds, so, if we ever have to strike, I have some form of income to help me sustain through it.

And I know that There are a few other funds out there.

Why? What have you got?

By your first insulting comment, I guess you if were ever in a position to own and/or operate your own business you would not do so and continue to work for someone else, union or not. Is this correct?

Wait. Insulting?

You said it was me burying the unions, and I suggested that it was you, and you are insulted?

Whatever you say.

But, on to the question...

I would. But my conscience would never allow me to be one of the masters.

[Hayvern]

They probably will get buried. But the guys with the shovels are those who wish they could make a real living.

Then, once they are gone, one of two things will happen...

The working class will see what life is like without the unions around and rise up in revolt (Uniting together) against terrible wages, or the government will take over all duties of protecting the working class from the predatory capitalist system, by going more and more socialist.

One way, or another, financial anarchy (capitalism) will get to the end of the game, with winners and losers.

A whole lot more losers than winners.

Just out of curiosity, what exactly do the rest of you see happening when the unions are decimated? How do you see things going afterward?

Do you see the masters being kind and volunteering to pay wages higher than the lowest bidder?

Oh I don't see anything happening. Only 12% of the working population is unionized and most of us are doing just fine with that. We have learned that we have to bring value to the company and when we do we get a higher wage. We are not limited to what the union says scale should be for what we do, we are limited only in the amount of competition there is for our services.

As a non-union equipment operator, I made more money than my unionized counter-parts AND had better benefits. I worked on union scale jobs once in a while and made even more money when I did, but I worked more hours each year than other people I knew in the union and in the end made more money per year.

I have since moved into an industry that has no union and again am glad for the opportunity. I have worked my way up from the ground to making a pretty good living wage.

We have protections for workers in place. Safety standards and minimum wages have been enacted. All of these things can be pointed back to the unions, this is some of the good that has come from them, but the good is done. They have now become a cancer, eating away at the prosperity of others around them, and like a cancer, the only thing that can live in the end is the cancer cells.

You say that people will turn to socialism, I say that unions ARE the embodiment of socialism. When you look at countries like France and Greece who are now having riots in the street, it is because of the unions. Both the unions have created the economic issues and are out on the streets rioting.

[Drunker Hillbilly]

The avg union worker earns more money than the avg non union worker after benefits are figured in. That is hurting America.

[tornadospotter]

[chief31]

Quit demonizing the "Masters" or rich ppl!

It is ok that there are some ppl that have billions and some ppl that have only thousands. THAT IS NOT A BAD SCENERIO!

I make $%$% $30,000 a year and am fine with it. Im not an a-hole American that votes to get more free stuff.

I need rich ppl so i can stay employed. I am not jealous or envious of their success either.

You may only do $30,000 dollars worth of work in a year. But I do more.

Your free market is economic anarchy, and is no better than social anarchy.

And, while I condone neither, allowing one, without the other, leads to slavery.

For a quick reference to check the validity of that claim, check.... human history, past and present.

As far as Capitalism being "the only way, all other ways have failed", so has capitalism.

And while I agree that there is not a damn thing wrong with being rich, aside from greed, the problem for me is when those who are overindulging themselves demand to get even more, while also insisting that everybody else gets less. And also demand that many get nothing.

This isn't the wild. It isn't the jungle. It is called a civilized society.

We have social laws because man has proven that they will do wrong if they are allowed to do wrong.

Oddly enough, that is what we need economic laws for. But we refuse to match economic restrictions with social restrictions, making the playing-field quite unbalanced.

If the government were to keep economic restrictions on par with the social restriction, then we would have far too much socialism for most people.

That's where Unionization comes in. It is the working people demanding that the price of labor meet the needs of the laborers.

If you just go with your "Bidding" theory, then we will need to bid lower than Chinese slave labor to keep jobs.

Because, no matter how great you are at your job, you can't keep up with thirty Chinese laborers who, collectively, still cost less than you.

As for which "party" is for which people, there really is no question about it.

I see Dems pass healthcare reform and extend assistance to the unemployed, and I see Reps come in and demand only gifts for the masters. And extensive cuts to the needy.

And the two parties have been just like that for as long as I have been alive.

I don't have to make elaborate webs of speculative conspiracy to come up with ways to paint the other party as being against me. Everything they do is directly against me, and all of the working-class.

[tornadospotter]

If your job is only worth so much an hour, then that is what it is. So you make a change if you can.

[Drunker Hillbilly]

You may only do $30,000 dollars worth of work in a year. But I do more.

Your free market is economic anarchy, and is no better than social anarchy.

And, while I condone neither, allowing one, without the other, leads to slavery.

For a quick reference to check the validity of that claim, check.... human history, past and present.

As far as Capitalism being "the only way, all other ways have failed", so has capitalism.

And while I agree that there is not a damn thing wrong with being rich, aside from greed, the problem for me is when those who are overindulging themselves demand to get even more, while also insisting that everybody else gets less. And also demand that many get nothing.

This isn't the wild. It isn't the jungle. It is called a civilized society.

We have social laws because man has proven that they will do wrong if they are allowed to do wrong.

Oddly enough, that is what we need economic laws for. But we refuse to match economic restrictions with social restrictions, making the playing-field quite unbalanced.

If the government were to keep economic restrictions on par with the social restriction, then we would have far too much socialism for most people.

That's where Unionization comes in. It is the working people demanding that the price of labor meet the needs of the laborers.

If you just go with your "Bidding" theory, then we will need to bid lower than Chinese slave labor to keep jobs.

Because, no matter how great you are at your job, you can't keep up with thirty Chinese laborers who, collectively, still cost less than you.

As for which "party" is for which people, there really is no question about it.

I see Dems pass healthcare reform and extend assistance to the unemployed, and I see Reps come in and demand only gifts for the masters. And extensive cuts to the needy.

And the two parties have been just like that for as long as I have been alive.

I don't have to make elaborate webs of speculative conspiracy to come up with ways to paint the other party as being against me. Everything they do is directly against me, and all of the working-class.

EPIC FAIL!!!!!! I shall myself and no longer post in this thread. The second I saw you revert to Obamacare........GEEZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!

[chief31]

EPIC FAIL!!!!!! I shall myself and no longer post in this thread. The second I saw you revert to Obamacare........GEEZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!

Right.

Probably a good idea to hold your tongue, instead of going over the top on the mistaken assumption that I think the Healthcare law is a good one.

Well-intentioned? Yes. But hardly an upgrade from the failed system in place.

The point was that I can plainly see who has which people's interests in mind.

And with keywords like "Obamacare" I can plainly see that you and I watch the same news channel.

[Drunker Hillbilly]

Right.

Probably a good idea to hold your tongue, instead of going over the top on the mistaken assumption that I think the Healthcare law is a good one.

Well-intentioned? Yes. But hardly an upgrade from the failed system in place.

The point was that I can plainly see who has which people's interests in mind.

And with keywords like "Obamacare" I can plainly see that you and I watch the same news channel.

Doubt it! I'm sure contrary to what you may believe, I try to watch multiple channels to get a perspective from both sides. I just find myself running to the bathroom to vomit when I watch your channel most of the time! I may try to see MSNBC's point now that they fired Olberman. Whack job!!!!!!

Ok, one more post!!! LMAO....

[Chiefster]

Right.

Probably a good idea to hold your tongue, instead of going over the top on the mistaken assumption that I think the Healthcare law is a good one.

Well-intentioned? Yes. But hardly an upgrade from the failed system in place.

The point was that I can plainly see who has which people's interests in mind.

And with keywords like "Obamacare" I can plainly see that you and I watch the same news channel.

LOL! Yep!

Could not agree more. A government sponsored health care system will run as efficiently as the post office.