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Thread: Some Interesting Numbers as We Watch the Labor Agreement Unfold

  1. #1
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    Default Some Interesting Numbers as We Watch the Labor Agreement Unfold


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    hey gang,

    I ran across some interesting information on Forbes.com that I compiled and thought I would put up here for some comparison purposes.

    It all has to do with the amount of money in the NFL these days and where that money is being spent. These numbers are from the 2009 season.

    First, a little information about the numbers.

    Current Value = The latest value of the team
    Revenue = The amount of gross income the team received in 2009
    Operating Income = The amount of money left over after expenses but before taxes and interest payments
    Player Expense = The amount of money spent on player salaries, benefits and bonuses
    Gate Receipts = The amount of money from ticket sales including club seating
    Margin Percentage = (not really correct here, but works) this is the percentage of operating income against total revenue
    Players Percentage = the percentage of player costs to revenue
    Overhead = the amount of money that was spent on overhead including stadium costs and everything else that it takes to run the team

    Ok so here are the best and worse along with the Chiefs in each category

    Current Value:
    Dallas Cowboys = 1.8 billion
    KC Chiefs = 965 Million 20th overall
    Jaguars = 725 million

    Revenue
    Cowboys = 420 million
    Chiefs = 235 million 23rd overall
    Lions = 210 million

    Operating Income
    Cowboys = 143.3 million
    Chiefs = 47.8 Million 6th overall
    Dolphins = -7.7 million

    Player Expense
    Giants 166 million
    Chiefs 111 million (we were last in this category)

    Gate Receipts
    Cowboys 112 million
    Chiefs 53 million 16th overall
    Raiders 34 million

    Overhead costs
    Cowboys = 133.7 million
    Chiefs = 76.2 million 14th
    Bills = 57.8 million

    I found this interesting. It looks like the owners could learn a few things from the owner of the Bills on how to get costs down.

    Overall, here are some interesting numbers league wide to think about.

    All the teams in the NFL have a combined value of 32.6 BILLION dollars

    All the teams in the NFL collected 8 billion in revenue for the 2009 season

    All the teams in the NFL ended up with 1 billion in operating income. Interestingly enough, this is what the owners have stated they want to keep that amount at.

    Players have received 4.494 billion in expenses, or 56.06% of total revenue.

    Overhead, or somtimes called operating costs are in excess of 2.45 billion dollars collectively or 30% of revenue.

    For those of you who are business savvy, those numbers will mean something to you. For those of you who see that the players only get 56% and really don't know much about business you will think the players should get more. Interestingly enough, with a margin of 13.3% overall, the NFL is healthy, but not getting overly rich.

    Putting that in perspective, if you owned your own business in construction. If your company made 100K in revenue in one year, you would have made 13K for your troubles. Its all about volume.

    It appears some teams could work hard to get their costs down and save some money, which is another of the owners demands as they ask the players to pick up flights and hotel rooms on their own.

    Anyway, I thought this information was interesting. If you want to see the numbers for yourself. You can visit:

    #32 Jacksonville Jaguars - Forbes.com and walk backwards through each team from the end forward.


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    Quote Originally Posted by billb40 View Post
    It does not matter how you slice or dice owners and players are making a lot of money. Where does that come from the fans and it will be the fans that take it in the wallets when all is said and done.
    I for one will not watch or even pay attention to the NFL next year if there is a work stoppage. Lockout or walkout either one.
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by billb40 View Post
    Neither the players or owners are thinking about the fans.
    Well, if they do deprive us our games, then I agree. But so far, I can't make that claim.

    Let's hope that the fans' interests creep their way into all of this and get something done.

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    Owners? Profits? Owner profits go to who? Who owns the Kansas City Chiefs? Is it one person, or many? Is it the same with big company's? You know who should walk out, all the coaches and trainers. The staff of a NFL Franchise. Then we will see how fast things get done.

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    You might also factor in some numbers that weren't expressed in the article. One of them being the real and implied debt load of each team not including the players and their salaries. For example, the much vaunted Cowboys may make a profit on the field, but the cost of the field and the sheltering building will not for many, many years. Jerry Jones may be a genius at self-aggrandizement, but when he uses his team and their resources to that end, he's making an error in taste (well, in his case that's a hard word to spit out.) and judgment. While it may be true that, once, the Cowboys were America's team, that's a fading memory and fading with it are the profits made from licensed merchandise. Also few teams have the in place loyal following as has Kansas City. And one that can afford to be loyal. No NFL tickets can be construed as a bargain but, for what you get in terms of play, sight lines, stadium, Kansas City has few competitors. Per capita KC is one of the wealthiest cities with a franchise (and yes, I know, it's hard to explain Green Bay on the quick) and only a modest group who feel the team costs the city too much. (These groups exist in every city with a team, no matter what sport.) However it may look to Forbes, I'll argue that the Chiefs are better placed over the long haul than many other teams. You mention the Bills and their thriftiness. All well and good but, apparently, they're permanently on the edge of being moved, they're already being "shared" with Toronto.

    Interesting write up and Thank You for it.

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    ^ So then do we get to factor in all the taxpayer incentivized perks the teams get? Taxpayer funded stadiums, tax breaks, roads and infrastructure paid for exclusively by the cities/states the teams reside in? The owners get to keep those type of assets for as long as they stick around in a city. The players do not benefit from that directly, and only indirectly via the players share of the profits of the team during the time they play.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chief31 View Post
    Agreed.



    Well, if they do deprive us our games, then I agree. But so far, I can't make that claim.

    Let's hope that the fans' interests creep their way into all of this and get something done.
    Yup, at this point I really could care less who wins the labor dispute; I want my football!


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    Quote Originally Posted by hometeam View Post
    ^ So then do we get to factor in all the taxpayer incentivized perks the teams get? Taxpayer funded stadiums, tax breaks, roads and infrastructure paid for exclusively by the cities/states the teams reside in? The owners get to keep those type of assets for as long as they stick around in a city. The players do not benefit from that directly, and only indirectly via the players share of the profits of the team during the time they play.
    Well then you have to factor in the benefits of revenue from the host NFL City. Jobs, sales tax on ect! I know for a fact, that there is an increase in sale of beer, anytime the Chiefs Crowd has members coming to a game, and they spend money on other things as well. Having a NFL Franchise makes money for the taxpayer. Yes it may not seem so for those who pay those taxes, but it does more than you think in increasing the economy of your tax base.

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    We are talking about what the teams get out of it, not what it brings back to the city, becuase in that case, the players are just as much to blame for bringing that economic increase in said host city, so you cant show that as something the owners can hold over the players head. Regardless of any economic boon to a NFL town, the owners are the one who get the lifetime benefit of the free infrastructure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hayvern View Post

    Putting that in perspective, if you owned your own business in construction. If your company made 100K in revenue in one year, you would have made 13K for your troubles. Its all about volume.

    It appears some teams could work hard to get their costs down and save some money, which is another of the owners demands as they ask the players to pick up flights and hotel rooms on their own.

    Anyway, I thought this information was interesting. If you want to see the numbers for yourself. You can visit:

    #32 Jacksonville Jaguars - Forbes.com and walk backwards through each team from the end forward.
    Bad comparison I used to own a flooring company until the economy went south, in construction most of your expenses go toward labor probably 30% and that's working as your own foreman. But if you do no work like the owners of these teams then your labor can easily be around 50%, not to mention customers are paying for a product whether it be a new deck or new floors they don't care who you hire as long as the end result meets their expectations. If you compare a huge construction company like JE Dunn I bet the owner would be pretty happy with 13%, because 13% of billion is 10's of millions, for essentially having people run your business while you come in and collect checks and yell at them.Also the NFL on the other hand is all about the labor. We watch the NFL because it's the best players in the world not the second best but the very best. Not to mention many of these players play 10 years or less and many of them don't reach their 60th birthday because of all the abusive their body receives. Why shouldn't they be well payed?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hometeam View Post
    We are talking about what the teams get out of it, not what it brings back to the city, becuase in that case, the players are just as much to blame for bringing that economic increase in said host city, so you cant show that as something the owners can hold over the players head. Regardless of any economic boon to a NFL town, the owners are the one who get the lifetime benefit of the free infrastructure.
    For an average of three years. The owners are the ones who are in it for the long term.
    The only reason a beer sweats around Canada is because he's decided it will be the next beer he drinks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by billb40 View Post
    It does not matter how you slice or dice owners and players are making a lot of money. Where does that come from the fans and it will be the fans that take it in the wallets when all is said and done.
    I for one will not watch or even pay attention to the NFL next year if there is a work stoppage. Lockout or walkout either one.

    Neither the players or owners are thinking about the fans.
    exactly
    Quote Originally Posted by hometeam View Post
    ^ So then do we get to factor in all the taxpayer incentivized perks the teams get? Taxpayer funded stadiums, tax breaks, roads and infrastructure paid for exclusively by the cities/states the teams reside in? The owners get to keep those type of assets for as long as they stick around in a city. The players do not benefit from that directly, and only indirectly via the players share of the profits of the team during the time they play.
    This was my thought as well. All the new renovations going on at tax payers/fans expense. Still cannot seat the people they sell tickets for(see super Bowl in Dallas last year-nicely done Jerry!)Not saying that renovations are not needed, but they are not done without taxpayer/fan approval. So it would be interesting to know how much we/they factor in.


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