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Thread: Some Interesting Numbers as We Watch the Labor Agreement Unfold

  1. #1
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    Default Some Interesting Numbers as We Watch the Labor Agreement Unfold


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    hey gang,

    I ran across some interesting information on Forbes.com that I compiled and thought I would put up here for some comparison purposes.

    It all has to do with the amount of money in the NFL these days and where that money is being spent. These numbers are from the 2009 season.

    First, a little information about the numbers.

    Current Value = The latest value of the team
    Revenue = The amount of gross income the team received in 2009
    Operating Income = The amount of money left over after expenses but before taxes and interest payments
    Player Expense = The amount of money spent on player salaries, benefits and bonuses
    Gate Receipts = The amount of money from ticket sales including club seating
    Margin Percentage = (not really correct here, but works) this is the percentage of operating income against total revenue
    Players Percentage = the percentage of player costs to revenue
    Overhead = the amount of money that was spent on overhead including stadium costs and everything else that it takes to run the team

    Ok so here are the best and worse along with the Chiefs in each category

    Current Value:
    Dallas Cowboys = 1.8 billion
    KC Chiefs = 965 Million 20th overall
    Jaguars = 725 million

    Revenue
    Cowboys = 420 million
    Chiefs = 235 million 23rd overall
    Lions = 210 million

    Operating Income
    Cowboys = 143.3 million
    Chiefs = 47.8 Million 6th overall
    Dolphins = -7.7 million

    Player Expense
    Giants 166 million
    Chiefs 111 million (we were last in this category)

    Gate Receipts
    Cowboys 112 million
    Chiefs 53 million 16th overall
    Raiders 34 million

    Overhead costs
    Cowboys = 133.7 million
    Chiefs = 76.2 million 14th
    Bills = 57.8 million

    I found this interesting. It looks like the owners could learn a few things from the owner of the Bills on how to get costs down.

    Overall, here are some interesting numbers league wide to think about.

    All the teams in the NFL have a combined value of 32.6 BILLION dollars

    All the teams in the NFL collected 8 billion in revenue for the 2009 season

    All the teams in the NFL ended up with 1 billion in operating income. Interestingly enough, this is what the owners have stated they want to keep that amount at.

    Players have received 4.494 billion in expenses, or 56.06% of total revenue.

    Overhead, or somtimes called operating costs are in excess of 2.45 billion dollars collectively or 30% of revenue.

    For those of you who are business savvy, those numbers will mean something to you. For those of you who see that the players only get 56% and really don't know much about business you will think the players should get more. Interestingly enough, with a margin of 13.3% overall, the NFL is healthy, but not getting overly rich.

    Putting that in perspective, if you owned your own business in construction. If your company made 100K in revenue in one year, you would have made 13K for your troubles. Its all about volume.

    It appears some teams could work hard to get their costs down and save some money, which is another of the owners demands as they ask the players to pick up flights and hotel rooms on their own.

    Anyway, I thought this information was interesting. If you want to see the numbers for yourself. You can visit:

    #32 Jacksonville Jaguars - Forbes.com and walk backwards through each team from the end forward.


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  2. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seek View Post
    Rumor has it that the judge told both sides that if he makes his ruling, One side will lose big time, but did not specify who and strongly suggested they work this out.

    What you are probably seeing is both sides giving a little, which in the end will be the best answer in my opinion.
    I read an article quoting a similar statement, but what it said was that the judge told both sides they wouldn't like his ruling if it came down to his decision alone, that both sides would lose, and suggested strongly they attempt to work it out between themselves asap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hayvern View Post
    hey gang,

    I ran across some interesting information on Forbes.com that I compiled and thought I would put up here for some comparison purposes.

    It all has to do with the amount of money in the NFL these days and where that money is being spent. These numbers are from the 2009 season.

    First, a little information about the numbers.

    Current Value = The latest value of the team
    Revenue = The amount of gross income the team received in 2009
    Operating Income = The amount of money left over after expenses but before taxes and interest payments
    Player Expense = The amount of money spent on player salaries, benefits and bonuses
    Gate Receipts = The amount of money from ticket sales including club seating
    Margin Percentage = (not really correct here, but works) this is the percentage of operating income against total revenue
    Players Percentage = the percentage of player costs to revenue
    Overhead = the amount of money that was spent on overhead including stadium costs and everything else that it takes to run the team

    Ok so here are the best and worse along with the Chiefs in each category

    Current Value:
    Dallas Cowboys = 1.8 billion
    KC Chiefs = 965 Million 20th overall
    Jaguars = 725 million

    Revenue
    Cowboys = 420 million
    Chiefs = 235 million 23rd overall
    Lions = 210 million

    Operating Income
    Cowboys = 143.3 million
    Chiefs = 47.8 Million 6th overall
    Dolphins = -7.7 million

    Player Expense
    Giants 166 million
    Chiefs 111 million (we were last in this category)

    Gate Receipts
    Cowboys 112 million
    Chiefs 53 million 16th overall
    Raiders 34 million

    Overhead costs
    Cowboys = 133.7 million
    Chiefs = 76.2 million 14th
    Bills = 57.8 million

    I found this interesting. It looks like the owners could learn a few things from the owner of the Bills on how to get costs down.

    Overall, here are some interesting numbers league wide to think about.

    All the teams in the NFL have a combined value of 32.6 BILLION dollars

    All the teams in the NFL collected 8 billion in revenue for the 2009 season

    All the teams in the NFL ended up with 1 billion in operating income. Interestingly enough, this is what the owners have stated they want to keep that amount at.

    Players have received 4.494 billion in expenses, or 56.06% of total revenue.

    Overhead, or somtimes called operating costs are in excess of 2.45 billion dollars collectively or 30% of revenue.

    For those of you who are business savvy, those numbers will mean something to you. For those of you who see that the players only get 56% and really don't know much about business you will think the players should get more. Interestingly enough, with a margin of 13.3% overall, the NFL is healthy, but not getting overly rich.

    Putting that in perspective, if you owned your own business in construction. If your company made 100K in revenue in one year, you would have made 13K for your troubles. Its all about volume.

    It appears some teams could work hard to get their costs down and save some money, which is another of the owners demands as they ask the players to pick up flights and hotel rooms on their own.

    Anyway, I thought this information was interesting. If you want to see the numbers for yourself. You can visit:

    #32 Jacksonville Jaguars - Forbes.com and walk backwards through each team from the end forward.
    Yes, I saw this a while ago. The general response was still hitting on the fact that the Bills suck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seek View Post
    Yes, I saw this a while ago. The general response was still hitting on the fact that the Bills suck.
    Best post EVER!!
    The only reason a beer sweats around Canada is because he's decided it will be the next beer he drinks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canada View Post
    Best post EVER!!


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    Quote Originally Posted by matthewschiefs View Post
    What you are saying is pretty much if someone does not agree with you then they don't no what there talking about. It's that mindset that I have a problem with.

    The fact of the matter is that BOTH the owners and the players have done the same thing. TRIED TO GET A BETTER DEAL FOR THEMSELVES. While the owners are saying give me more so are the PLAYERS. There are some legitimate arguments for the owners to get some of what they want there are some legitimate arguments for the players to get some of what they want. The problem has been neither side wanted to give anything up to get what they wanted. THAT'S OWNERS AND PLAYERS.
    No, I said exactly what I said; please refrain from putting words in my mouth.

    No, the owners have not had a good case at all, on any of the topics publicly mentioned - that's been proven time & again. Besides that, I think the underlying theme in the difference in opinion here is a word comprehension gap ( see above, for example ) - you are stating that because the players didn't give in to the owners with no requests, it is player greed; Well, that is simply not the definition of the word.

    Greed is:
    a selfish and excessive desire for more of something (as money) than is needed
    The players didn't come in to request more nor have requested more value in any trade off requests - in fact, they've backed down in value from the onset. Just because they requested the owners' justify their request for more, does not make the players 'greedy'. Requesting something in return for what the owners do ask ( which was a LOT ) does not make the players greedy either - that's called negotiation. Further evidence of this is as of today's rumored deal, the players are giving up $500 million this year and possibly much more in the future... but they've been 'greedy'.... right...

    Making blanket statements doesn't mean you're looking at both sides equally & more oft than not, may mean you haven't looked at the issue objectively at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanathol View Post

    Making blanket statements doesn't mean you're looking at both sides equally & more oft than not, may mean you haven't looked at the issue objectively at all.
    And your looking at this objectively?

    Quote Originally Posted by Xanathol View Post
    Requesting something in return for what the owners do ask ( which was a LOT ) does not make the players greedy either - that's called negotiation
    You act like the nfl players have EVER agreed to 18 games. Witch they have not. In fact all they have ever said is that they will never agree to it.
    NFL Players Say 18-Game Season Unacceptable Or just google Nfl players 18 game season. Not one will show you the players agree to it.

    Or that they have EVER agreed to give the owners the billion off the top. Witch they have NEVER done either.
    DeMaurice Smith On Decertification - ESPN Video - ESPN DeMaurice smith talks about not giving back anything at all till there demands were met at opening the books. And there are reasons. The NBA did it in 99 and they just fought over the numbers and MISSED HALF THE SEASON.

    So what demands did the players ever agree to in order to get what they wanted? In order for there Requesting something to get something back they would have to be willing to give something back. Negotiation is saying If you give me this I will give you this. Something that is finally happening now. But NEITHER side was doing that all along. Thats OWNERS AND PLAYERS.

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    The owners requested another billion off the top, the players asked to see the books ( sorry - no one is going to give up a billion dollars without justification ). The owners asked for a rookie wage scale, the players asked that be reinvested into veteran players. The owners essentially asked for a reversal of total revenue split - instead of 53/47 players/owners, they asked for 47/53 - the players countered with an actual, flat, 50/50 offer, to which the owners walked out on... The owners later offered a WORSE offer - money that would be a lesser percentage cut, but better yet, a fixed value to players and any additional money all goes to the owners! And you sya the owners are negotiating or the players are not?!?


    The 18 game schedule is a red herring. Its just a matter of converting 2 pre season games to regular season, which means more games for starters to play in - the money is still the same, since the league charges the same amount no matter what. Do you really think the owners care if the games are real or not as long as they get their money? Of course not. In fact, they care so little that Goodell lies about this point, claiming "the people want it" - no we don't - we don't want to pay full price for pre season games... and he knows this.

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    What I find funny, is that the players have a Media ban on discussing any information related to this lock out, and the Owners have leaked some details. So HOW can anyone base any opinion, stating people are uniformed on the subject support one side stating it as fact, when the facts are behind closed door and only known by the players and owners involved. Supporting articles as fact is not fact. The media is biased in their reporting, and is often blows reports out of the wate in attempts to help leverage one side.

    In the end, the owners are being screwed, and I don't mean the owners running the team. I mean the fans who own a team as their team. The people who spend their money to watch the NFL. Without the TRUE owners, both the Players and NFL is nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanathol View Post

    The 18 game schedule is a red herring. Its just a matter of converting 2 pre season games to regular season, which means more games for starters to play in - the money is still the same, since the league charges the same amount no matter what. Do you really think the owners care if the games are real or not as long as they get their money? Of course not. In fact, they care so little that Goodell lies about this point, claiming "the people want it" - no we don't - we don't want to pay full price for pre season games... and he knows this.
    It is not the same. Pre Season games are rarely televised nationally so there is not as much revenue there. The fans do not show up to pre-season games like regular season games, less money there, yet the players get paid the same amount of money on the year whether they play 16 games or 18 games.

    As for the players seeing the books? Again, who in real life ever gets to look at the books of the business? You seem to think that the employees are owners, they are not they are not entitled to see the books.

    Only in a union can employees demand something that is not normally provided.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanathol View Post
    And you sya the owners are negotiating or the players are not?!?
    That's not at all what I have EVER said if you READ my post you will see that.

    Quote Originally Posted by matthewschiefs View Post
    Negotiation is saying If you give me this I will give you this. Something that is finally happening now. But NEITHER side was doing that all along. Thats OWNERS AND PLAYERS.
    Quote Originally Posted by matthewschiefs View Post
    The truth is there is no good guy bad guy in this matter. If EITHER (that means OWNERS AND PLAYERS) side wanted to get a deal done they would have one by now.
    Quote Originally Posted by matthewschiefs View Post
    The problem has been neither side wanted to give anything up to get what they wanted. THAT'S OWNERS AND PLAYERS.
    Just a few of where i say it's both sides that are to blame OWNERS AND PLAYERS. Not once have I said this is the players fault. In fact I have said a number of times the owners are mostly to blame for this whole mess. But I don't excuse the players for there actions witch have also hurt the game IMO if theres games missed.

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