With the 1st pick in the 2012 NFL Draft,

[drstandley31]

The Kansas City Chiefs take...........

[chief31]

We will never, never win anything until we address it with a real, long-term, blue-chip prospect.

Warner, Brees, Dilfer, B. Johnson, Favre, Rypien, Hostetler, Theismann, Stabler, Unitas, Starr (X2), Staubach (X2), Brady (X3) and Montana (X4) make that a risky assumption.

47% of all Super Bowls have been won by QBs that were not first round picks.

Granted, It helps to have a guy that was drafted high. But it is far from a must.

[chief31]

4 teams in very similar situations in recent years....

Falcons, Bucs, Lions, and Rams.

All who have turned it around and are seemingly headed the right direction...

Led by Matt Ryan, Josh Freeman, Matt Stafford, and Sam Bradford.

Look at where the chiefs are...

The Falcons were an already-built team, having built it around Vick.

The Rams were 8-8 last year, and are 0-1 so far this season. Not really the model of a winning franchise. Didn't The Chiefs have a better year in 2010, and even beat those Rams?

The Lions spent about a decade building what they have.

And The Bucs got beat, at home, by the same team that just beat us.

But the whole argument is largely superstition. Rather a player is drafted in the first round, or undrafted, those who are good, are good.

As I said above, it helps to get the higher rated guy coming out of college. But it is far from an amazing success rate.

[DMN]

I am tired of the 10-6 division champion argument. We got destroyed in the playoffs. We looked like we didn't even belong there. Lets not live in the past.

If it looks like a fluke... smells like a fluke.... then must be.

4-12, 2-14, 4-12, 10-6, and now to a hopefully 4 win season... and I can't honestly see on our schedule where we even get 2 wins. Miami and Indy maybe.

Sure those teams are not elite but they are going to make us look foolish this year.

Haleys whole mantra since getting here has been "If we can just get a little better each and every day"

Bottom line this is only 2 games... but a gigantic step backwards.

If 10-6 held any water then explain to me how we are this bad right now... This team and organization have officially been exposed.

[jmlamerson]

Warner, Brees, Dilfer, B. Johnson, Favre, Rypien, Hostetler, Theismann, Stabler, Unitas, Starr (X2), Staubach (X2), Brady (X3) and Montana (X4) make that a risky assumption.

47% of all Super Bowls have been won by QBs that were not first round picks.

Granted, It helps to have a guy that was drafted high. But it is far from a must.

Dilfer was a 1st round pick (6th overall). Brees and Favre were the 33rd picks of the draft - and were the 2nd and 3rd QB selected in their respective drafts. Citing Bart Starr and Johnny Unitas is a bit ingenuous, given that they were drafted long before the Super Bowl era began.

Only Stabler, Hostetler, Rypien, Brady, Warner, Montana, Brad Johnson, and Staubach are true diamond-in-the-rough sorts of finds. And they are exceptions, not the rules. And of those, only Brady, Warner, Staubach, and Montana are hall of famers.

If you're drafting QBs low on the hope that they'll be Brady, Warner, Staubach, and Montana, well, good luck. Because those are once-in-a-generation finds. And lucky ones too.

[jmlamerson]

Who has the most rings in that group. The 6th rounder. I am not saying that Stanzi is the answer. What I am saying is if we get to the point where we are going to have the number 1 pick we should see if he can be the answer before we get anther qb. If he can be and that's a big if then we can use that pick on anther hole. If not well we will no.

A football team that runs on the hope that it'll luck into another Tom Brady is going to fail. Because Tom Brady - like Kurt Warner - is a once in a generation find. A perfect storm of great coaching and luck.

[chief31]

I am tired of the 10-6 division champion argument. We got destroyed in the playoffs. We looked like we didn't even belong there. Lets not live in the past.

If it looks like a fluke... smells like a fluke.... then must be.

4-12, 2-14, 4-12, 10-6, and now to a hopefully 4 win season... and I can't honestly see on our schedule where we even get 2 wins. Miami and Indy maybe.

Sure those teams are not elite but they are going to make us look foolish this year.

Haleys whole mantra since getting here has been "If we can just get a little better each and every day"

Bottom line this is only 2 games... but a gigantic step backwards.

If 10-6 held any water then explain to me how we are this bad right now... This team and organization have officially been exposed.

So, if 10-6 over a full sixteen game schedule is a fluke, then how is two horrible games not a fluke?

It's two games. Far more susceptible to anomalies than a full sixteen game schedule.

Or do I have to abandon logic to "get it"?

Dilfer was a 1st round pick (6th overall). Brees and Favre were the 33rd picks of the draft - and were the 2nd and 3rd QB selected in their respective drafts. Citing Bart Starr and Johnny Unitas is a bit ingenuous, given that they were drafted long before the Super Bowl era began.

Only Stabler, Hostetler, Rypien, Brady, Warner, Montana, Brad Johnson, and Staubach are true diamond-in-the-rough sorts of finds. And they are exceptions, not the rules. And of those, only Brady, Warner, Staubach, and Montana are hall of famers.

If you're drafting QBs low on the hope that they'll be Brady, Warner, Staubach, and Montana, well, good luck. Because those are once-in-a-generation finds. And lucky ones too.

My mistake on Dilfer. I guess that makes it 44% of Super Bowl winning QBs not drafted in the first round.

Brees and Favre stay on my side, as they are on my side of the line you drew at the first round.

As I said, you have a higher percentage chance of winning a Super Bowl with a first rounder. But with 44% of those winners not being first rounders, it is just spouting off nonsense to claim that a team will never win without one.

Matt Cassel has been a very good NFL QB in his three seasons. I think his fall needs to be more than a couple of games (although he has been far from as horrible as his supporting cast) before attempting to declare he can't win.

[matthewschiefs]

A football team that runs on the hope that it'll luck into another Tom Brady is going to fail. Because Tom Brady - like Kurt Warner - is a once in a generation find. A perfect storm of great coaching and luck.

Well I agree with you on that. But when you get to a point where your team is not going anywhere then you need to see what you have. If the Chiefs don't get better and they get to the point where they have 0 chance to make the playoffs then what would it really hurt to put in the current rookie to see what hes got. If he is one of those rare late round finds then we will no and can fill anther hole with the early draft pick. If he's not then we will no that we still have the hole to fill. We are not at that point yet. But should we get there I really don't see a negitive to seeing what we have on the roster and what we are going to need going forward.

[matthewschiefs]

So, if 10-6 over a full sixteen game schedule is a fluke, then how is two horrible games not a fluke?

It's two games. Far more susceptible to anomalies than a full sixteen game schedule.

Or do I have to abandon logic to "get it"?





My mistake on Dilfer. I guess that makes it 44% of Super Bowl winning QBs not drafted in the first round.

Brees and Favre stay on my side, as they are on my side of the line you drew at the first round.

As I said, you have a higher percentage chance of winning a Super Bowl with a first rounder. But with 44% of those winners not being first rounders, it is just spouting off nonsense to claim that a team will never win without one.

Matt Cassel has been a very good NFL QB in his three seasons. I think his fall needs to be more than a couple of games (although he has been far from as horrible as his supporting cast) before attempting to declare he can't win.

Ok something has gone horribley wrong I am agreeing with you way to much and we haven't had a fight in a couple of weeks. Maybe we jinxed the team?

[DMN]

So, if 10-6 over a full sixteen game schedule is a fluke, then how is two horrible games not a fluke?

It's two games. Far more susceptible to anomalies than a full sixteen game schedule.

Or do I have to abandon logic to "get it"?

Maybe it is a fluke and all of a sudden after 8 straight losses... (terrible ones at that) we will all of a sudden "get it" as you say.

At which point I will gladly remove my foot from my mouth.

At the end of the day if you are going to hang your hat on a 10-6 season that ends in a first round embarrassment on a soft schedule then by all means be my guest. But that was last season... this season we are an 0-2 laughing stock on the easy end of a brutal schedule with absolutely no positives to build on. Good teams learn from successes and failures. we have grossly regressed.

We are so far from being a contending team it truly saddens me.

[Fastphilly]

Warner, Brees, Dilfer, B. Johnson, Favre, Rypien, Hostetler, Theismann, Stabler, Unitas, Starr (X2), Staubach (X2), Brady (X3) and Montana (X4) make that a risky assumption.

47% of all Super Bowls have been won by QBs that were not first round picks.

Granted, It helps to have a guy that was drafted high. But it is far from a must.

I do not agree with alot of those names you mentioned.

Warner was on teams with exceptional receiving talent (except the Giants and his stint there was horrible).

Dilfer fell into a situation with one of the best defences in NFL history. I could have won a SB with that defence. He was shipped out the following year so that tells you something.

B. Johnson was in a similar situation like Dilfer, a great defence that can bail out even substandard QB play.

Hostetler did just enough to win and that meant for him not to turn the ball over and even then they should have lost the SB if it was'nt for a makeable Norwood FG that sailed wide. His career with the Raiders was anything but good.

Mark Rypien did win the Super Bowl, but he was AWOL soon after. I guess not having (Clark and Monk) and a lights out defence exposed him.

Any of the pre-salary cap era QBs you mentioned is'nt a fair comparison with today's QBs..Those QB's were in consistant systems with few player roster moves and had alot of depth in backup players. Still I agree they could have been an improvement with most other teams.

I do agree with Favre, Brees, and Brady. Those QB's could jumpstart the level of play with average talented casts.