In case your wondering

[figcrostic]

Cassel and the defense won that game for us, Steve Breaston was great pick up, our line still sucks, and we aren't hopeless.

[jmlamerson]

How's that?

I never said he was a top ten QB.

Anyway.... The well-seasoned expert Tom Brady was removed from that Pats offense....

So how about Cassel didn't play on the greatest passing offense of all time?

If Matt Cassel was the QB for the greatest passing offense of all time, then clearly saying he is average would be ridiculous.

The 2007 Pats was the greatest passing offense of all time. The only real difference between the 2007 Pats and the 2008 Pats was the QB. We see how Cassel does with WRs, OL, RB, and coach of the greatest passing offense of all time. The answer is "solid."

If you're trying to say that Cassel transformed the greatest passing offense of all time into merely a solid passing offense, well, again, I'm not sure that helps your argument either.

[jmlamerson]

That link list's the Chiefs salary at $93 1/2 million and it was written August 16. Spotrac lists the total salary at $62 million and there's no date. Why is it so hard to find a current accurate number? I know it's inexact with incentives and bonuses but that information should be easy enough to obtain.

It's very frustrating.

Yeah, they haven't updated it with a final number, or the rookie numbers. Which is why I said $70M to be safe.

But it's a very accurate picture of just how little we're spending.

[jmlamerson]

If you wanna start throwing out links here's another one showing all the teams and their cap space. http://blogs.nfl.com/2011/08/16/upda...-all-32-teams/. Guess who's got the most cap space, we do with almost 33 million in free space. Guess who's got less cap space? The Minnesota Vikings and we beat them on Sunday. If you can't figure out that cap space and the ability of a team to win games doesn't matter by now nothing will.

Having cap space and overpaying a player isn't comparing apples to apples. Comparing an average QB pay to an elite QB pay is. If you want to grab on to any excuse other than that we're over paying for a QB that's average that's cool. Fact is we're over paying for an average QB and that'll make our team less likely to go out and get a better one or try to draft one that could be better.

Not to mention that a few posts ago you posted a thought about Cassel not being a top 10 QB. Which would make me think you want a top 10 QB. You know what makes that more likely to happen? Not paying someone that's not in the top 10 a top 10 salary.

FYI, that number is from August 16. It's about two months out of date and includes dead cap space.

We're only going to get a top-10 QB if we draft one. And the rookies have a cap now, you know. We can fit any rookie QB, even taken 1st overall, in our massive cap space. I can barely muster the energy to say it again, it doesn't matter how much Cassel makes. We're clearly hoarding our pennies.

Teams like the Vikings that waste their cap on bad (re: overpriced and old) free agents are worse than those like us who hoard cap space. But teams that win championships fall in the middle of those two extremes. They certainly don't leave the RT spot to be manned by the likes of Barry Richardson or the FS spot by Sabby Piscatelli.

[chief31]

The 2007 Pats was the greatest passing offense of all time. The only real difference between the 2007 Pats and the 2008 Pats was the QB. We see how Cassel does with WRs, OL, RB, and coach of the greatest passing offense of all time. The answer is "solid."

If you're trying to say that Cassel transformed the greatest passing offense of all time into merely a solid passing offense, well, again, I'm not sure that helps your argument either.

Nope. Cassel never played on the greatest offense of all time.

Pretty simple English there.

There really is no argument here.

Great how you decided to focus on something so trivial.

Anyway, as I said.....

You are entitled to your opinion.

But, I think you are selling Cassel's accomplishments short, since several of those who are considered to be the best of the best (Brady, Manning, Brees) had very similar careers through their first three seasons, to what Cassel has had.

That's pretty much the reason I have not been able to label Cassel, is because, to this point, his career is quite similar to those mens'.

Those guys grew into the fantastic passers that they are today, from a similar position to where Cassel is in his, today.

But if you prefer to just carry on about how Matt Cassel QBd the greatest offense of all time, I'm afraid you are all alone in that room.

[OPLookn]

FYI, that number is from August 16. It's about two months out of date and includes dead cap space.

We're only going to get a top-10 QB if we draft one. And the rookies have a cap now, you know. We can fit any rookie QB, even taken 1st overall, in our massive cap space. I can barely muster the energy to say it again, it doesn't matter how much Cassel makes. We're clearly hoarding our pennies.

Teams like the Vikings that waste their cap on bad (re: overpriced and old) free agents are worse than those like us who hoard cap space. But teams that win championships fall in the middle of those two extremes. They certainly don't leave the RT spot to be manned by the likes of Barry Richardson or the FS spot by Sabby Piscatelli.

If you can find a better and more accurate one that's cool, doesn't really matter. I can barely muster the energy to keep beating my head against a wall when going back and forth with you but I'll try. Cassel is overpaid or he's a top 10 QB because that's how he's paid. Not to mention you just said above that the Vikings are old and overpriced which is why they were so close to the cap limit. So either Cassel is overpaid or he's an elite QB there's really no way out of that because it's an either or situation. You've said he's an average QB so the other is that he's over paid.

To upgrade everything you want it'll take money. I really would be curious what it is and agree that it's hard to find an accurate web site that's up to day. Regardless, I'd love to have an QB drafted that isn't named Stanzi. I do think Stanzi was a good pickup and would challenge a backup for that role. Hope I'm wrong and he's a starting QB in the future.

Whatever the case may be it's been an interesting going back and forth with you and I'll be curious to see Cassel's development during the rest of his contract and what we do in the role of QB.

[jmlamerson]

Nope. Cassel never played on the greatest offense of all time.

Pretty simple English there.

There really is no argument here.

Great how you decided to focus on something so trivial.

Anyway, as I said.....

You are entitled to your opinion.

But, I think you are selling Cassel's accomplishments short, since several of those who are considered to be the best of the best (Brady, Manning, Brees) had very similar careers through their first three seasons, to what Cassel has had.

That's pretty much the reason I have not been able to label Cassel, is because, to this point, his career is quite similar to those mens'.

Those guys grew into the fantastic passers that they are today, from a similar position to where Cassel is in his, today.

But if you prefer to just carry on about how Matt Cassel QBd the greatest offense of all time, I'm afraid you are all alone in that room.

Did I really have to say Cassel was the QB for [what had been the previous year] the best passing offense of all time? Really? You couldn't pick that up from the context? Or are you just disagreeing to be disagreeable?

You seem to want to avoid committing here to saying Cassel will ever be a top QB. I can't blame you, because you'd look like an overly optimistic homer who was missing obvious dangerous signs if it doesn't happen. You seem to want to be able to say a couple years down the road, should Cassel flame out :"No, I never supported Cassel, I just thought we should wait and see."

But live a little. Grow some guts. Make a prediction one way or the other.

[jmlamerson]

If you can find a better and more accurate one that's cool, doesn't really matter. I can barely muster the energy to keep beating my head against a wall when going back and forth with you but I'll try. Cassel is overpaid or he's a top 10 QB because that's how he's paid. Not to mention you just said above that the Vikings are old and overpriced which is why they were so close to the cap limit. So either Cassel is overpaid or he's an elite QB there's really no way out of that because it's an either or situation. You've said he's an average QB so the other is that he's over paid.

To upgrade everything you want it'll take money. I really would be curious what it is and agree that it's hard to find an accurate web site that's up to day. Regardless, I'd love to have an QB drafted that isn't named Stanzi. I do think Stanzi was a good pickup and would challenge a backup for that role. Hope I'm wrong and he's a starting QB in the future.

Whatever the case may be it's been an interesting going back and forth with you and I'll be curious to see Cassel's development during the rest of his contract and what we do in the role of QB.

Cassel is an average QB who is overpaid. It does not affect this team's performance at all how much he is overpaid. As I showed you, we have massive amounts of cap room and could absorb another three Cassels without hitting our cap limit.

Are people really not getting this?

[OPLookn]

Cassel is an average QB who is overpaid. It does not affect this team's performance at all how much he is overpaid. As I showed you, we have massive amounts of cap room and could absorb another three Cassels without hitting our cap limit.

Are people really not getting this?

I get it, I just think you didn't understand what I was saying. I don't mean that as an insult, shot at you or whatever way. I just think our wires got crossed. To me cap space says absolutely nothing about how good or bad a team is. Look at Philly, they went out and broke the bank for their team, look at where they are at. Why not save 30 mil and have the exact same record.

I was merely trying to understand why the cap space mattered at all. Would you rather us be like the Vikings and spend every last penny and be 0-4? Just trying to figure out what this obsession is with us not hitting the cap space? Who out there has been worth the money that we missed out on that would have made a singular difference in the beat downs that were the first two games or swung the Chargers loss?

[jmlamerson]

I get it, I just think you didn't understand what I was saying. I don't mean that as an insult, shot at you or whatever way. I just think our wires got crossed. To me cap space says absolutely nothing about how good or bad a team is. Look at Philly, they went out and broke the bank for their team, look at where they are at. Why not save 30 mil and have the exact same record.

I was merely trying to understand why the cap space mattered at all. Would you rather us be like the Vikings and spend every last penny and be 0-4? Just trying to figure out what this obsession is with us not hitting the cap space? Who out there has been worth the money that we missed out on that would have made a singular difference in the beat downs that were the first two games or swung the Chargers loss?

A team that spends a ton of money is not guarenteed a super bowl berth, or even a decent record.

However, a team that is spending $10M-$20M less than any other team in the NFL is going to win nothing. The depth will not be there when someone key gets injured. Championship teams aren't built on the cheap. Ours is. We let go useful guys like Waters and Smith over money issues. We refused to sign or draft legit NT or RT, even though the FAs were out there.

Guys we could have gone (and I'm not including guys who re-signed with their own teams): Aubreyo Franklin, Manny Lawson, Dawan Landry, Daniel Manning, Stephen Tulloch, Paul Pozlunsky, or pretty much any OT with a pulse. Not to mention re-signing Waters, Edwards, and Smith. Not all of these guys, obviously. But just a better RT and SS could have won us the Chargers game. A couple better LBs (replace Belcher and grrom Houston) and a NT could have been the difference in the first two.

A team's entire chance of competing should not end when their safety, tight end, and running back go down. It's crazy that those three spots are critical to any team's success or failure.

[chief31]

Did I really have to say Cassel was the QB for [what had been the previous year] the best passing offense of all time? Really? You couldn't pick that up from the context? Or are you just disagreeing to be disagreeable?

Context?

No Sir!

You are a man of pure factual wording, are you not?

You lost your marbles last time I took your words for their obvious context.

Still...... No surprise that you chose to double-down on that nonsense.

You seem to want to avoid committing here to saying Cassel will ever be a top QB. I can't blame you, because you'd look like an overly optimistic homer who was missing obvious dangerous signs if it doesn't happen. You seem to want to be able to say a couple years down the road, should Cassel flame out :"No, I never supported Cassel, I just thought we should wait and see."

But live a little. Grow some guts. Make a prediction one way or the other.

Oh no! A challenge to my "guts"?

What ever shall I do?

There was no argument here. You just refuse to see your exaggerations for anything less than fact.

I think you are a very smart guy, who is too prideful to acknowledge your own mistakes.

I mean, you went so far as to call Tom Brady (A late sixth round pick) a blue chip prospect, just to try and save yourself from having to admit to the slightest error.

Can you believe that?!?!?!

I know you would enjoy a laugh at anybody else trying to label a late sixth round pick as a blue chip prospect.

But, just out of shere morbid pleasure.....

What record did Tom Brady get that "greatest passing offense of all time" to the year after Cassel managed 11-5?

I bet it was a whole lot better than the pedestrian Cassel did, wasn't it?

Don't you dare say it was 10-6 though.

And, any prediction I would have for Cassel's future would be less of a statement about Matt Cassel, than about the team/staff around him.