In case your wondering

[figcrostic]

Cassel and the defense won that game for us, Steve Breaston was great pick up, our line still sucks, and we aren't hopeless.

[chief31]

First, NE wasn't a "solid passing offense." It was one of the greatest passing offenses of all time.

Opinions of Cassel's ability should not be put on hold until he has a good-to-great supporting cast and coach. Very, very few QBs in the NFL will ever have those advantages. Hell, very few players will. If you want to wait until they retire to judge a player, that's your business. But most people want to discuss the team and its players now.

Orton does have below-average arm strength. Kind of like Weis/Cassel, McDaniels was able to work around that. Look at the statistical difference between Orton's last year and this one. He's clearly regressing.

My opinion of Cassel isn't based upon what he might do in the future. My opinion of Cassel is based around what he's already done. He's a career 83.0 QBR, 59% completion rate, 24-21 overall record, 0-1 playoff record, and 6.6 YPA. He might turn into Drew Brees, he might go the way of Ryan Leaf. Or he might stay at Brad Johnson-levels of averageness. The smart money is on the third.

I didn't say you should put your opinion on hold.

I said I find it difficult to pin him down as anything, seeing as how I have seen him do what he is not supposed be able to do.

As for Those Patriots, you can all them "The greatest of all time", but how do you not consider the loss of Brady as making it far, far less than that?

How many championships have The Chicago Bulls won without Micheal Jordan?

It's arguable that it was the best ever. But not when you subtract Tom Brady. Then it is rather questionable. And, rather or not anySchmoe could have done what Cassel did is extremely opinion-driven.

Cassel was not just a career backup, but he had even spent his entire collegiate career as a backup. One could easily say that he was more inexperienced than a rookie.

Alright, let's look at the three year average of the greats....

Tom Brady - 86.6; 85.7; 85.9
Payton Manning - 71.2; 90.7; 94.7
Drew Brees - 76.9; 67.5; 104.8


Matt Cassel - 89.4; 69.9, 93.0

You don't think this looks appropriate for a three year starter?

I mean, Brady started right out with a Super Bowl team, and his average is right on par with Cassel's first three, and that includes Cassel playing for this team two years.

You can always point to guys like Rivers and Rodgers, who instantly hit the numbers. But I think it is fair to list those guys as exceptional.

But, three of the best of the best QBs in The NFL right now, had average numbers through their firsth thgree seasons.

In fact, it would probably be fair to say that "average" is pretty good for a guy in his first three seasons, no?

______________________________________

Hey. Keep your opinion if you want.

I just think you are leaving yourself open to being made a fool of, should Cassel continue to improve.

But then, that is the best way to be fooled, is by Chiefs doing better than you thought they could.

[jmlamerson]

So your link is correct even though it doesn't include Hali's ($12 million) and Flowers' ($10 million salaries)? How can that be? How do you know your numbers (sportscity's numbers) are more accurate than mine?

It even says at the bottom of the page you linked to:
Translation: "Even we ourselves are not sure if these numbers are accurate."

I can see at least 2 players who aren't listed.

Go to the spotrac site referenced in the link. It actually takes you through every contract, although not in as readable of a form: Kansas City Chiefs Player Contracts, Salaries, & Transactions.

You remember that I said actual salaries were below $70M, and specifically said that wasn't the salary cap number, right? Our salary cap number still gives us $30M to spend, and the random message board post you linked to is incredibly off.

And remember, a cap number just isn't the total amount of the contract divided by a number. Things like bonuses are prorated (or sometimes not).

[TopekaRoy]

. Hell, we're paying out less than $70M in salaries (actual money, not cap) this year (Kansas-City-Chiefs Salaries | Kansas-City-Chiefs Player Salaries | 2011 Kansas-City-Chiefs Salary).

That link is from SportCity.com The say the source of their numbers is

Source: Spotrac.com

Spotrac currently lists Flowers salary at $555,000,000 which is no longer accurate and is not included at all in the total you quote. Hali's Salary isn't even listed there. So not only is your source wrong, your source's source is also wrong!

[jmlamerson]

I didn't say you should put your opinion on hold.

I said I find it difficult to pin him down as anything, seeing as how I have seen him do what he is not supposed be able to do.

As for Those Patriots, you can all them "The greatest of all time", but how do you not consider the loss of Brady as making it far, far less than that?

How many championships have The Chicago Bulls won without Micheal Jordan?

It's arguable that it was the best ever. But not when you subtract Tom Brady. Then it is rather questionable. And, rather or not anySchmoe could have done what Cassel did is extremely opinion-driven.

Cassel was not just a career backup, but he had even spent his entire collegiate career as a backup. One could easily say that he was more inexperienced than a rookie.

Alright, let's look at the three year average of the greats....

Tom Brady - 86.6; 85.7; 85.9
Payton Manning - 71.2; 90.7; 94.7
Drew Brees - 76.9; 67.5; 104.8


Matt Cassel - 89.4; 69.9, 93.0

You don't think this looks appropriate for a three year starter?

I mean, Brady started right out with a Super Bowl team, and his average is right on par with Cassel's first three, and that includes Cassel playing for this team two years.

You can always point to guys like Rivers and Rodgers, who instantly hit the numbers. But I think it is fair to list those guys as exceptional.

But, three of the best of the best QBs in The NFL right now, had average numbers through their firsth thgree seasons.

In fact, it would probably be fair to say that "average" is pretty good for a guy in his first three seasons, no?

______________________________________

Hey. Keep your opinion if you want.

I just think you are leaving yourself open to being made a fool of, should Cassel continue to improve.

But then, that is the best way to be fooled, is by Chiefs doing better than you thought they could.

Huh? Yes, losing Brady and putting in Cassel severely hindered the record-setting passing offense of the Patriots. How does this help your argument?

If Cassel improves to be a top-10 NFL QB, I'll look foolish. If he doesn't, you will. Sound fair?

[jmlamerson]

That link is from SportCity.com The say the source of their numbers is

Spotrac currently lists Flowers salary at $555,000,000 which is no longer accurate and is not included at all in the total you quote. Hali's Salary isn't even listed there. So not only is your source wrong, your source's source is also wrong.

Huh? Flowers is making $555,000 this season. He was *extended* with the $55M contract, which kicks in next season.

You don't know what you're talking about. Stop pretending you do.

[TopekaRoy]

Go to the spotrac site referenced in the link. It actually takes you through every contract, although not in as readable of a form: Kansas City Chiefs Player Contracts, Salaries, & Transactions.

Alright. that is a different link then the one I just posted and appears to be more up to date. I'll have to look it over more closely.

[OPLookn]

We have plenty of money. Our owner is pinching pennies. We're $30M under the cap. If we were paying Cassel $1M a year, we'd be sitting at $40M under the cap. Hell, we cut guys who should have been Chiefs-lifers (like Waters) to save money.

If our owner wanted to field a better team with better players on the lines, he could have. Easily. But he didn't. Hell, we're paying out less than $70M in salaries (actual money, not cap) this year (Kansas-City-Chiefs Salaries | Kansas-City-Chiefs Player Salaries | 2011 Kansas-City-Chiefs Salary).

Neither Cassel nor any other Chief has anything to do with it.

If you wanna start throwing out links here's another one showing all the teams and their cap space. http://blogs.nfl.com/2011/08/16/upda...-all-32-teams/. Guess who's got the most cap space, we do with almost 33 million in free space. Guess who's got less cap space? The Minnesota Vikings and we beat them on Sunday. If you can't figure out that cap space and the ability of a team to win games doesn't matter by now nothing will.

Having cap space and overpaying a player isn't comparing apples to apples. Comparing an average QB pay to an elite QB pay is. If you want to grab on to any excuse other than that we're over paying for a QB that's average that's cool. Fact is we're over paying for an average QB and that'll make our team less likely to go out and get a better one or try to draft one that could be better.

Not to mention that a few posts ago you posted a thought about Cassel not being a top 10 QB. Which would make me think you want a top 10 QB. You know what makes that more likely to happen? Not paying someone that's not in the top 10 a top 10 salary.

[chief31]

Huh? Yes, losing Brady and putting in Cassel severely hindered the record-setting passing offense of the Patriots. How does this help your argument?

If Cassel improves to be a top-10 NFL QB, I'll look foolish. If he doesn't, you will. Sound fair?

How's that?

I never said he was a top ten QB.

Anyway.... The well-seasoned expert Tom Brady was removed from that Pats offense....

So how about Cassel didn't play on the greatest passing offense of all time?

If Matt Cassel was the QB for the greatest passing offense of all time, then clearly saying he is average would be ridiculous.

[okikcfan]

That link is out of date. Click on it and see how mauch Hali and Flowers are making. You may have trouble finding them because they aren't even listed! According to Kansas City Chiefs 2011 Team Management | Tradition Sports Online The Chiefs total salary is $107,390,000 and the Cap space is $12,610,000. I posted that info a week ago, but you two obviously didn't bother to read it because you are still quoting inaccurate figures.

You can look it up here: (click on the little blue box with the arrow in it next to my name.)

I'm so so sorry, Can you ever find it in your heart to forgive me?

[TopekaRoy]

If you wanna start throwing out links here's another one showing all the teams and their cap space. http://blogs.nfl.com/2011/08/16/upda...-all-32-teams/.

That link list's the Chiefs salary at $93 1/2 million and it was written August 16. Spotrac lists the total salary at $62 million and there's no date. Why is it so hard to find a current accurate number? I know it's inexact with incentives and bonuses but that information should be easy enough to obtain.

It's very frustrating.