It's the coaching stupid...

[texaschief]

Haley is a failed experiment and it needs to stop asap. How many times do we need to see this team show up COMPLETELY unprepared before people begin to realize it's not ALL on the players? I see so much complaining about Cassel and NOTHING about Haley... it's baffling to me. The guy starts out 0-2 in BLOWOUTS to coaches who use to be with the organization and ultimately goes 0-3. Then, he wins a couple games against 2 of the worst teams in the league and pulls one off against a Raiders team who didn't have a QB and suddenly he's getting a pass!

Losses AT HOME to an 0-7 Miami team and a Denver team with possibly the worst QB in the league who only completed 2 passes is inexcusable. This team is NEVER prepared. It showed in preseason and the first 3 games of the season and has now reared its head again these past 2 weeks.

I saw nothing but excuses for this team for the Miami loss. Almost EVERY team has to play on Monday night!! That's no excuse for getting blown the #uck out by an 0-7 team at home. Guess what, it's about to happen again against a better Pittsburgh team after the monday night game at New England.

What kills me is that now with Cassel having surgery on his hand, there's going to be all this BS defense of Haley that he's lost so many of his starters to injury. It doesn't matter who he's lost. The fact that the Chiefs can't be competitive has nothing to do with losing starters. Yeah, you may lose games because of that, but not being at least competitive and prepared week in and week out lays squarely on the head coach. If you can't figure out that Denver is going to run the ball and do something to prevent it, THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG!!

It's painfully obvious that the Chiefs can't circle any one game on their remaining schedule and say, "we have a GOOD chance to win this game." In fact, you probably saw the Chiefs last win 2 weeks ago against San Diego.

Todd Haley is 3 years into his tenure here in Kansas City... he owns this. There's no more passing the buck off onto the previous regime. It's YOUR fault this team isn't prepared to compete. It's YOUR fault the offense isn't performing under your leadership. No magical beard is going to hide the fact that you are NOT a head coach. When your QB is yelling at you on the sideline that, "you don't know what the #uck you're talking about," it's probably not a good sign.

The failure isn't all on Haley. It lies on Pioli that he can't recognize how epically Haley has failed at his job. Again, this isn't about losing... this is about the manner in which this team is losing. There's no excuse for the way this team has performed since preseason and I hope that while getting completely disemboweled over the next 5 weeks, Todd Haley gets exposed for the fraud of a head coach that he truly is.

Go back to coaching golf. I hear Tiger needs some help.

[Three7s]

You say it takes a team effort? Tell that to the Colts. They can't win a game without Peyton Manning.

[azchiefsfan]

Yeah, Peyton was out there playing linebacker and safety wasn't he? MYOPIC...look it up, because you are a living definition.

[OPLookn]

Nice attempt to spin the issue OPlkn. No one has given Cassel a pass, because he hasn't needed a pass. He has had some bad games, but they have been few. You and others like you love to blame him because the line collapses and runners run into a brick wall at the line and because receivers drop good passes. Basically, you guys are so blind to the game that you can only focus on the one guy who, despite a terrible team around him, has done some great things, like get us to the playoffs. No one with any objectivity and basic knowledge of football could look at this team and say Cassel was the problem.

No I'm focusing on Cassel because he's the most visible player in the organization and he's on an offense that isn't doing a good job right now. So yeah, I complain about him the most when short of a wild cat or some other gimmick play he touches the ball every single time.

There wasn't a spin to the issue, I told the truth and there's really not a way to spin a fact. If you give Cassel a pass you have to give Haley a pass too. You wanna stand up for Cassel because he's the savior of the team just as soon as we get the other best 10 players in the NFL around him, I get it. On another note love the passive aggressive on how you try to belittle my football IQ as if my opinion means less than yours.

[azchiefsfan]

No I'm focusing on Cassel because he's the most visible player in the organization and he's on an offense that isn't doing a good job right now. So yeah, I complain about him the most when short of a wild cat or some other gimmick play he touches the ball every single time.

There wasn't a spin to the issue, I told the truth and there's really not a way to spin a fact. If you give Cassel a pass you have to give Haley a pass too. You wanna stand up for Cassel because he's the savior of the team just as soon as we get the other best 10 players in the NFL around him, I get it. On another note love the passive aggressive on how you try to belittle my football IQ as if my opinion means less than yours.

Oh yes, it's your opinion, therefore it is a fact. No spin there either. I will quit with you before I get banned. You, Sir, are a know-nothing "fan".

[OPLookn]

OPLookn:Also a horrible Denver team that now has the same record as us.

texaschief:(the team isn't horrible... the QB is horrible. read carefully now... and saying that Denver has the same record as the Chiefs as if that helps your argument is comical since I'm saying the Chiefs are a horrible team. Just because Denver has the same record as a team they just beat doesn't make them a good team. lol Also, don't forget they lost their first two RBs as well.)

You say Denver isn't horrible, the Chiefs are horrible but then me saying that Denver and the Chiefs having the same record doesn't mean anything. These three statements can't live in a logical world. If a team is judged by their W/L record one team can't be horrible and the other not.

Otherwise as far as the rest of your statements/conclusions go I'll admit it you're right. Just thought that one little part was humorous since one team isn't horrible the other is but they both have the same record that everyone judges them on.

And you're right, last season may have been fools gold but I was hoping for more fools gold this year. Kinda starting to look like my home value!

[texaschief]

You say Denver isn't horrible, the Chiefs are horrible but then me saying that Denver and the Chiefs having the same record doesn't mean anything. These three statements can't live in a logical world. If a team is judged by their W/L record one team can't be horrible and the other not.

Otherwise as far as the rest of your statements/conclusions go I'll admit it you're right. Just thought that one little part was humorous since one team isn't horrible the other is but they both have the same record that everyone judges them on.

And you're right, last season may have been fools gold but I was hoping for more fools gold this year. Kinda starting to look like my home value!

Just because Denver isn't a good team, doesn't automatically make them "horrible." The QB is the worst in the NFL BY FAR. But, their defense played lights out this past week and has the talent to do some great things in the future. All in all, I'd say their below average, but not "horrible" as a whole. The Chiefs ARE a horrible team as a whole. Their records are passing ships in my opinion.

If you can take a step back and look at each facet of the game, look at the teams they beat, and situations their opponents were in during those wins, you'll see a distinct difference between the Denver Broncos and the Kansas City Chiefs. I will be absolutely flabbergasted if the Chiefs don't end in last place in the division this season.

There needs to be a focus on individual aspects of each game if you're going to critique. You (when I say "you," I'm not singling any particular chiefs crowd member out) need to be able to evaluate each facet, player, and coach individually. What happened during each play and during each game that each individual could control? What decisions did they make during the play/game that positively or negatively impacted the game? What was their performance given each situation? There's a breakdown that needs to occur during each play, series, and game if you're going to correctly evaluate a player, unit, or coach.

In my opinion, the best time to evaluate is when a team is winning. What is happening right and how is each player performing under these relatively easy situations?

After watching Matt Cassel in a winning situation in New England and again last year, he just hasn't done enough to warrant being "the guy" in Kansas City for the foreseeable future. He lost me as even a patient "wait and see what happens" supporter last season during a winning season against a last place schedule. For my money, Matt Cassel isn't a franchise leading QB. He's just not. He's a good backup to have, but nothing more. He's Elvis Grbac... not Rich Gannon. Even when he's given time, he's too inconsistent and doesn't give the team the best chance to win in the long-term.

Until the Chiefs find an answer at the QB position, their hopes to make a deep run in the playoffs remain slim... whether the rest of the roster is healthy or not. To consistently make the playoffs in the NFL, you need a top 10 QB. It's pretty easy to name 10 QBs better than Matt Cassel. In no particular order:

1. Rogers
2. Brady
3. Brees
4. Ryan
5. Stafford
6. Flacco
7. Roethlisberger
8. Manning
9. Manning
10. Shaub
11. Rivers
12. Newton
13. Romo
14. Vick
15. Freeman
16. Bradford
17. Dalton

You can't honestly say you would take Matt Cassel over any of these QBs... and that's the problem. Not included on this list are rookies like Locker, Mallett, Gabbert, Kaepernick, Stanzi or incoming QBs like Luck, Barkley, Jones, Griffin, or Tannehill.

Add these names and look at this list as if you had a choice of any QB to build your team around for the next 5-10 years.

1. Rogers
2. Brady
3. Brees
4. Ryan
5. Stafford
6. Flacco
7. Roethlisberger
8. Manning
9. Manning
10. Shaub
11. Rivers
12. Newton
13. Romo
14. Vick
15. Freeman
16. Bradford
17. Dalton
18. Locker
19. Mallett
20. Gabbert
21. Kaepernick
22. Stanzi
23. Luck
24. Barkley
25. Jones
26. Griffin
27. Tannehill

Now, tell me who on this list would you pick Matt Cassel over?

Stanzi? Tannehill? Romo? Griffin? Even if you picked Cassel over that many guys, he's still in the bottom 8 QBs in the league and your goal is to find a top 10 guy. This, to me, is the BIGGEST issue with Matt Cassel at QB. It's not his limited upside or the talent (or lack thereof) around him, it's the fact that he's NOT a top 10 QB that you can rely on to get you to the playoffs year in and year out. PERIOD.

The same goes for Todd Haley. He did a real good job of losing me as a neutral observer even before he coached his first game. The positives that he has brought to the team don't come close to balancing out the negatives and he has had ample opportunity over 3 seasons. Being a head coach in the NFL isn't easy and I'm not going to act like I know what it takes day in and day out. I can appreciate the work he has put into the job, but it doesn't take someone with a doctorate in NFL management to understand and recognize that he hasn't been a successful head coach and that his team preparation overall is lacking in a BIG way EVERY SINGLE WEEK... even in wins.

I remain completely unimpressed with the new regime since they took over 3 offseasons ago. I loved the last draft class but HATED the first and was perfectly neutral on the second. There wasn't one player I liked in the '09 draft. I hated the Arenas and Moeaki picks (Arenas because there were more pressing issues than nickel CB and Moeaki for the same reason AND his injury laden past). In '12 I would LOVE to see a QB, NT, and ILB taken along with some OL help in free agency... not to mention a new head coach.

If you stuck around and read this entire thing, thank you for your time. I'm done wasting your time now. lol

[texaschief]

You say it takes a team effort? Tell that to the Colts. They can't win a game without Peyton Manning.

There's an exception to every rule.

[azchiefsfan]

I'd take Matt Cassel over these guys:

4. Ryan
5. Stafford
6. Flacco
7. Roethlisberger
8. Manning
9. Manning
10. Shaub
11. Rivers
12. Newton
13. Romo
14. Vick
15. Freeman
16. Bradford
17. Dalton

[OPLookn]

Just because Denver isn't a good team, doesn't automatically make them "horrible." The QB is the worst in the NFL BY FAR. But, their defense played lights out this past week and has the talent to do some great things in the future. All in all, I'd say their below average, but not "horrible" as a whole. The Chiefs ARE a horrible team as a whole. Their records are passing ships in my opinion.

If you can take a step back and look at each facet of the game, look at the teams they beat, and situations their opponents were in during those wins, you'll see a distinct difference between the Denver Broncos and the Kansas City Chiefs. I will be absolutely flabbergasted if the Chiefs don't end in last place in the division this season.

There needs to be a focus on individual aspects of each game if you're going to critique. You (when I say "you," I'm not singling any particular chiefs crowd member out) need to be able to evaluate each facet, player, and coach individually. What happened during each play and during each game that each individual could control? What decisions did they make during the play/game that positively or negatively impacted the game? What was their performance given each situation? There's a breakdown that needs to occur during each play, series, and game if you're going to correctly evaluate a player, unit, or coach.

In my opinion, the best time to evaluate is when a team is winning. What is happening right and how is each player performing under these relatively easy situations?

After watching Matt Cassel in a winning situation in New England and again last year, he just hasn't done enough to warrant being "the guy" in Kansas City for the foreseeable future. He lost me as even a patient "wait and see what happens" supporter last season during a winning season against a last place schedule. For my money, Matt Cassel isn't a franchise leading QB. He's just not. He's a good backup to have, but nothing more. He's Elvis Grbac... not Rich Gannon. Even when he's given time, he's too inconsistent and doesn't give the team the best chance to win in the long-term.

Until the Chiefs find an answer at the QB position, their hopes to make a deep run in the playoffs remain slim... whether the rest of the roster is healthy or not. To consistently make the playoffs in the NFL, you need a top 10 QB. It's pretty easy to name 10 QBs better than Matt Cassel. In no particular order:

1. Rogers
2. Brady
3. Brees
4. Ryan
5. Stafford
6. Flacco
7. Roethlisberger
8. Manning
9. Manning
10. Shaub
11. Rivers
12. Newton
13. Romo
14. Vick
15. Freeman
16. Bradford
17. Dalton

You can't honestly say you would take Matt Cassel over any of these QBs... and that's the problem. Not included on this list are rookies like Locker, Mallett, Gabbert, Kaepernick, Stanzi or incoming QBs like Luck, Barkley, Jones, Griffin, or Tannehill.

Add these names and look at this list as if you had a choice of any QB to build your team around for the next 5-10 years.

1. Rogers
2. Brady
3. Brees
4. Ryan
5. Stafford
6. Flacco
7. Roethlisberger
8. Manning
9. Manning
10. Shaub
11. Rivers
12. Newton
13. Romo
14. Vick
15. Freeman
16. Bradford
17. Dalton
18. Locker
19. Mallett
20. Gabbert
21. Kaepernick
22. Stanzi
23. Luck
24. Barkley
25. Jones
26. Griffin
27. Tannehill

Now, tell me who on this list would you pick Matt Cassel over?

Stanzi? Tannehill? Romo? Griffin? Even if you picked Cassel over that many guys, he's still in the bottom 8 QBs in the league and your goal is to find a top 10 guy. This, to me, is the BIGGEST issue with Matt Cassel at QB. It's not his limited upside or the talent (or lack thereof) around him, it's the fact that he's NOT a top 10 QB that you can rely on to get you to the playoffs year in and year out. PERIOD.

The same goes for Todd Haley. He did a real good job of losing me as a neutral observer even before he coached his first game. The positives that he has brought to the team don't come close to balancing out the negatives and he has had ample opportunity over 3 seasons. Being a head coach in the NFL isn't easy and I'm not going to act like I know what it takes day in and day out. I can appreciate the work he has put into the job, but it doesn't take someone with a doctorate in NFL management to understand and recognize that he hasn't been a successful head coach and that his team preparation overall is lacking in a BIG way EVERY SINGLE WEEK... even in wins.

I remain completely unimpressed with the new regime since they took over 3 offseasons ago. I loved the last draft class but HATED the first and was perfectly neutral on the second. There wasn't one player I liked in the '09 draft. I hated the Arenas and Moeaki picks (Arenas because there were more pressing issues than nickel CB and Moeaki for the same reason AND his injury laden past). In '12 I would LOVE to see a QB, NT, and ILB taken along with some OL help in free agency... not to mention a new head coach.

If you stuck around and read this entire thing, thank you for your time. I'm done wasting your time now. lol

Read the whole thing and it seemed like a very well thought out and written post. I have to waver on a few of the QB's once you throw in this years draft but your point overall still remains extremely valid.

To me Arenas wasn't a bad pick, he hasn't excelled but he hasn't caused a lot of pain. The Moeaki pick again, didn't hate it, didn't love it. To me if we get 3 or 4 more seasons out of Moeaki it was a good pick. Especially since most NFL players only play 3 years.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't 2012 one of the years that teams have to spend in the high 90% range of their caps? If so we have a lot of room to bring people in.

As for Haley I haven't seen him blowing up on guys the way he did the first year. Yeah he got after Cassel the one game but nothing remotely close to his first year. He seems very resigned to the point of it almost being like he knows he's done after this year. I don't like the thought of blowing things up again but if it needs to happen to be great instead of mediocre then so be it.

[texaschief]

I'd take Matt Cassel over these guys:

4. Ryan
5. Stafford
6. Flacco
7. Roethlisberger
8. Manning
9. Manning
10. Shaub
11. Rivers
12. Newton
13. Romo
14. Vick
15. Freeman
16. Bradford
17. Dalton

If this is true, this post should be an indictment on your credibility on any further discussions you weigh in on. Your bias is obviously clouding your judgement or haven't truly watched any other team/QB outside of those playing for the Chiefs.

To judge yourself fairly, find a neutral observer. Someone who isn't a fan of either team and ask whether they would have Cassel or ANY of those QBs you mentioned, head to head. See what your results come back like.