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Thread: 10-15 Pick in 2012 Draft Who Do we take?

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    Default 10-15 Pick in 2012 Draft Who Do we take?


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    Alright so what do we know as of this moment about the our Kansas City Chiefs? Look at the depth chart from top to bottom. Look at the record. Look at the stats. Look at the game tape. What do you see?

    QB - Matt Cassel's play has been inconsistent with flashes of hope. Overall highly disappointing.

    RB - Jackie has shown he can contribute. Slightly inconsistent. But promising especially if paired with a faster more reliable back, aka, Jamal Charles. LeRon has not been as effective as I had hoped but I never truely expected very much out of him.

    WR - We have one of the best trios of wideouts in the league in my opinion. We just can't get them the ball.

    TE - No help at all.

    OL - Started out strong but lately have been iffy.

    DL - Changes all around, save for Dorsey, who is still questionable.

    LB - Same as DL. Houston shows promise every now and then. Need another ILB and a solid OLB opposite Hali.

    DB - The loss of Berry was huge. Carr hasn't been as effective this year. Constantly beat. A pickup at CB to compete with Carr would be nice.

    ST - Succop started bad but has been decent so far this year. He is definitely on the hot seat though. Still lacking a solid returner.

    So with all that. Who do you take with your first draft pickK?

    While I would love to see RGIII in a Chiefs uniform I am almost positive that Pioli will not draft a QB. Cassel will be given another year to prove himself.

    I say we go defense. Many will complain that our OL needs immediate improvement. Well I disagree. I say our defense is a more pressing matter. I like these three players.

    Manti Te'o/LB/Notre Dame - I like him to be our ILB opposite Johnson. Think Ray Lewis. Not a great pass rusher. But a smart, strong tackler that can cover slower RBs and TEs. Injuries are a concern.

    Courtney Upshaw/LB/Alabama - Line him up opposite Hali. Stong and fast. Great Vision. Good motor.

    Dontari Poe/DT/Memphis - This one is a stretch for the pick we will probably have. But I think he could be a good NT. He is athletic for his size. Not a great pass rusher but can stuff the run. Raw Talent. Reason I consider him a stretch.

    Alright lets hear it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chief31 View Post
    I think the rest of the offense being shaky is a direct result of terrible o-line play.

    I was so hopeful after the unit put together a couple of really good games earlier, but two straight weeks of horrid play, both running, and passing, have eliminated any confidence I had.
    I still have confidence in this line. For now. I want to see what they can do against this New England front seven.

    I believe that offensive lines are grown. Not built. You pick the players and you stick with them. Let them build and grow next to each other. Chemistry is a part of the game that is often overlooked.

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    This is a terrible OL. They had a few good games, but went right back to their old ways. There isn't one of those guys that I would start if we had any other choice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Codac View Post
    Think about this from Pioli's perspective. Since the loss of Charles we have become a pretty much one dimensional team. That single dimension seems to vary from game to game. Sometimes its all run, others it is all pass. Meaning Cassel has to throw to much or not enough. Meaning his play is always going to struggle. Defenses catch on either way. Cassel looks like crap.

    Pioli is going to give Cassel one more year. One more year with a team that is healthy. Same with Haley. Whether we like it or not Cassel is our guy next year. A QB will not be taken.

    I am predicting a mid 1st round pick. I think we will pull a win or two out of our helmet before the season is done.

    Even if Cassel and Haley are both here next year (which I agree that will be the case)...that is no reason not to take a QB, in fact it should be the perfect opportunity. I would be really excited to see a guy like RG3 or Tannehill come in here and be a solid pocket passer with the ability to scamble (and that is cool with me if it is not the first year). Was Deberg the last scrambling QB we had??? Maybe Gannon could be considered, but not the definition of.

    The fans are pissed. The Chiefs need to do something to get people excited. Taking a QB in the first, or even second gives the season ticket holders something to look forward to.

    I would be ok with an OL if it was truly the best available or if it was a steal, but if the pick is comprable or even close I think a QB would be a good way to 'sell the chiefs brand'. And it seems like fan hope is as low as it has been since before DT was drafted.

    It's called the win column, perhaps you've heard of it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chief31 View Post
    I'd like to see us move up to take OT Kalil.

    Albert is a bad LOT. Get a legitimate replacement at LOT and Albert is likely a very good ROT, or OG.

    Upgrade two o-line positions with one pick, and watch your RBs improve, your QBs improve, and your WRs improve.

    But then, I think we have a failure of offensive strategy and overall coaching too.

    The players we have on our o-line should be able to do much better than what we have seen the past couple of weeks.


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    Hey guys...newbie here.
    I think alot depends on what we do for free agency first and foremost. I would like to see us re-sign a healthy Jared Gaither to play right tackle and re-sign Barry Richardson to serve as a swing-tackle role.

    As for nose tackle, Paul Soliai might be available on the free agent market and if we still go with Crennel's "bend-but-don't-break" Fairbanks-Bullough 3-4 scheme, Soliai could be that run stuffer that we need in the middle of our defense. Kelly Gregg is a stop-gap and Jerrell Powe can't be counted as a known quantity.

    Honestly, I would prefer to transition to a hybrid one and two gap scheme. I think the Fairbanks-Bullough base system is becoming antiquated to an extent as defenses look to field more versatile fronts and secondaries...while the F-B system really uses the defensive ends for a specific role of gap control. As it stands now, we don't get any semblence of a pass rush at all from Tyson Jackson and Glenn Dorsey....and I think this current role especially for Dorsey doesn't play to his strengths as a quick, penetrating interior defender.

    A guy I like who I think can play in multiple schemes and packages is Purdue junior Kawann Short. With the overall lack of top-tier defensive tackles projected to be availabel in the 2012 draft, I think he could end up really moving up draft boards should he declare. He has good size at 6'-3", 310 lbs., with a strong base...and I think he could add some weight to get even stronger in the middle of the defense if he were used more in a two gap system. As I said, I think he could end up really moving up boards...and if we are sitting inside of the top 10, if we could trade down a couple of spots and still have a shot at Short while picking up an additional draft pick that would be a potential win-win situation.

    So far in 11 games as a junior he has :
    Solo tackles : 28
    Assisted tackles : 23
    Total tackles : 51
    Tackles for loss : 17
    Tackles for loss yardage : 53
    Sacks : 6.5
    Sack loss yardage : 31
    Passes broken up : 1
    Forced fumbles : 1

    2010 sophomore season :
    12 games
    Solo tackles : 30
    Assisted tackles : 11
    Total tackles : 41
    Tackles for loss : 12.5
    Tackles for loss yardage : 40
    Sacks : 4.5
    Sack loss yardage : 21
    Passes broken up : 8
    Kicks blocked : 2

    stats courtesy of cfbstats.com

  7. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicfre2011 View Post
    Hey guys...newbie here.
    I think alot depends on what we do for free agency first and foremost. I would like to see us re-sign a healthy Jared Gaither to play right tackle and re-sign Barry Richardson to serve as a swing-tackle role.

    As for nose tackle, Paul Soliai might be available on the free agent market and if we still go with Crennel's "bend-but-don't-break" Fairbanks-Bullough 3-4 scheme, Soliai could be that run stuffer that we need in the middle of our defense. Kelly Gregg is a stop-gap and Jerrell Powe can't be counted as a known quantity.

    Honestly, I would prefer to transition to a hybrid one and two gap scheme. I think the Fairbanks-Bullough base system is becoming antiquated to an extent as defenses look to field more versatile fronts and secondaries...while the F-B system really uses the defensive ends for a specific role of gap control. As it stands now, we don't get any semblence of a pass rush at all from Tyson Jackson and Glenn Dorsey....and I think this current role especially for Dorsey doesn't play to his strengths as a quick, penetrating interior defender.

    A guy I like who I think can play in multiple schemes and packages is Purdue junior Kawann Short. With the overall lack of top-tier defensive tackles projected to be availabel in the 2012 draft, I think he could end up really moving up draft boards should he declare. He has good size at 6'-3", 310 lbs., with a strong base...and I think he could add some weight to get even stronger in the middle of the defense if he were used more in a two gap system. As I said, I think he could end up really moving up boards...and if we are sitting inside of the top 10, if we could trade down a couple of spots and still have a shot at Short while picking up an additional draft pick that would be a potential win-win situation.

    So far in 11 games as a junior he has :
    Solo tackles : 28
    Assisted tackles : 23
    Total tackles : 51
    Tackles for loss : 17
    Tackles for loss yardage : 53
    Sacks : 6.5
    Sack loss yardage : 31
    Passes broken up : 1
    Forced fumbles : 1

    2010 sophomore season :
    12 games
    Solo tackles : 30
    Assisted tackles : 11
    Total tackles : 41
    Tackles for loss : 12.5
    Tackles for loss yardage : 40
    Sacks : 4.5
    Sack loss yardage : 21
    Passes broken up : 8
    Kicks blocked : 2

    stats courtesy of cfbstats.com
    Welcome! Always good to see another Chiefs fan.

    I would love to see us move back to the 4-3. But they have invested so much in their 3-4, I don't see it happening until a new coaching regime takes control.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Codac View Post
    Welcome! Always good to see another Chiefs fan.

    I would love to see us move back to the 4-3. But they have invested so much in their 3-4, I don't see it happening until a new coaching regime takes control.
    Thanks for the welcome!
    I apologize, I probably wasn't as clear as I meant to be....I actually am not saying transition to a 4-3 base front defense (ala New York Giants, New Orleans Saints, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Chicago Bears)..but actually transition more from a 3-4 front with 2-gap assignments to a hybrid 1-gap/2-gap hybrid based on player strengths. Personally, I think a guy like Glenn Dorsey is much better suited from a physical skill set standpoint, to make more of an impact as a 1-gap 3-4 defensive end...where he can use his quickness to get into the offensive backfield. As it stands right now, he plays a more read and react role as he holds the edge and is responsible for both sides of the left tackle. I think adding a player like Kawann Short could also give us some flexibility to show more 1-gap hybrid fronts at both nose tackle and defensive end.

    I think Tyson Jackson is more limited as he doesn't have the same explosiveness that Dorsey has...but he could hypothetically play more of a 2-gap role on the strongside....playing both gaps on either side of the right tackle. I see Short as a player that could play either 1-gap or 2-gap nose tackle...and potentially either at defensive end in our 3-4. I think this is the hybrid role similar to the one that Dom Capers uses B.J. Raji in Green Bay, largely due to his versatility.

    As it stands right now, we are completely lacking any pass rush outside of Tamba Hali and I think the more traditional 3-4 front shown in the Fairbanks-Bullough system is becoming outdated by spread offenses. It has it's value in defensive packages based on circumstances, but it seems like Crennel uses it in a more base front role...and when you don't deviate much you inherently get little to no pass rush from the front 3...or even the threat of a pass rush from one of the three up front as they are responsible for controlling 2 gaps.

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    I think your gap system is different than mine. My 1 gap is the the right of the center if you were under center. Are you talking about putting Dorsey at NT? Or are you giving each player their own gap system?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Codac View Post
    I think your gap system is different than mine. My 1 gap is the the right of the center if you were under center. Are you talking about putting Dorsey at NT? Or are you giving each player their own gap system?
    Yeah, I am talking more about having gap assignments that play to each individuals strengths. So for example, I see a player like Short being able to handle a 1-gap and 2-gap nose tackle assignment and also be able to be used in packages as a 1-gap or specifically a 2-gap defensive end. I could see Dorsey be able to play either a 1-gap defensive end or 2-gap defensive end role, again, depending on the defensive play. With Jackson, I think he is more limited than Dorsey and really doesn't have the quickness to make as big of an impact in a 1-gap assignment.

    In another forum, I am trying to get more information from Green Bay fans on how Capers uses his defensive linemen. My feeling is that for players that have more versatility like B.J. Raji, he uses them in multiple roles with a mixture of 1-gap and 2-gap assignments. For players like Ryan Pickett and Howard Green, I wonder if they are used more exclusively in 2-gap assignments to take advantage of their strength at the point of attack to occupy multiple blockers. Neither seem to be best suited to 1-gap assignments, atleast not any more than an occassional basis.

    I actually think if he develops, Powe could potentially be used in a way similar to Raji, albeit a poor man's version. He has the size to plug occupy multiple blockers (and handle a 2-gap assignment) and I think he was used at Mississippi as a 1-gap tackle as well (not his clear strength, but some versatility).

    Again, just some ideas....I just don't think Crennel's defensive system is necessarily a base front look anymore with the evolution of today's spread attack offenses...

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    Ok I think I get what you are saying now, and I agree. I'm looking into your pick right now.
    I do agree that we are definitely not playing to our teams strengths. Haley and company are trying to force their schemes to be compatible with the players.
    Tyson Jackson is on the wrong team in my opinion. But since they picked and paid for him they are trying to make him fit. We lack much depth to do much about it though.
    I would rather be starting Bailey than Jackson.

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