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Thread: 10-15 Pick in 2012 Draft Who Do we take?

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    Default 10-15 Pick in 2012 Draft Who Do we take?


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    Alright so what do we know as of this moment about the our Kansas City Chiefs? Look at the depth chart from top to bottom. Look at the record. Look at the stats. Look at the game tape. What do you see?

    QB - Matt Cassel's play has been inconsistent with flashes of hope. Overall highly disappointing.

    RB - Jackie has shown he can contribute. Slightly inconsistent. But promising especially if paired with a faster more reliable back, aka, Jamal Charles. LeRon has not been as effective as I had hoped but I never truely expected very much out of him.

    WR - We have one of the best trios of wideouts in the league in my opinion. We just can't get them the ball.

    TE - No help at all.

    OL - Started out strong but lately have been iffy.

    DL - Changes all around, save for Dorsey, who is still questionable.

    LB - Same as DL. Houston shows promise every now and then. Need another ILB and a solid OLB opposite Hali.

    DB - The loss of Berry was huge. Carr hasn't been as effective this year. Constantly beat. A pickup at CB to compete with Carr would be nice.

    ST - Succop started bad but has been decent so far this year. He is definitely on the hot seat though. Still lacking a solid returner.

    So with all that. Who do you take with your first draft pickK?

    While I would love to see RGIII in a Chiefs uniform I am almost positive that Pioli will not draft a QB. Cassel will be given another year to prove himself.

    I say we go defense. Many will complain that our OL needs immediate improvement. Well I disagree. I say our defense is a more pressing matter. I like these three players.

    Manti Te'o/LB/Notre Dame - I like him to be our ILB opposite Johnson. Think Ray Lewis. Not a great pass rusher. But a smart, strong tackler that can cover slower RBs and TEs. Injuries are a concern.

    Courtney Upshaw/LB/Alabama - Line him up opposite Hali. Stong and fast. Great Vision. Good motor.

    Dontari Poe/DT/Memphis - This one is a stretch for the pick we will probably have. But I think he could be a good NT. He is athletic for his size. Not a great pass rusher but can stuff the run. Raw Talent. Reason I consider him a stretch.

    Alright lets hear it.

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    i can't believe some of the posts here,KEEP DORSEY cause you think he is good,wow,the guy is terrible and lazy,and they can get rid of JACKSON too,another lazy LSU TIGER.

    BOWE,you say he should not be signed....are you crazy,he is the only player that has preformed for us the last 2 seasons.if we don't sign BOWE we are headed backwards and it will take over 5 years to get competitive again

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    better revise the thread title, we will be picking 5-10, maybe in the top 5. it is very possible we do not win any more games this year but more likely we win at least 1, maybe 2.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefnut View Post
    better revise the thread title, we will be picking 5-10, maybe in the top 5. it is very possible we do not win any more games this year but more likely we win at least 1, maybe 2.
    Chiefnut I think you've done this before but I have to say "Quoted for truth!". I could see us picking 7th or 8th. The good news is that with the set scale for pay where ever we pick the option to trade down is always there.

    Outside of the Packers and the 49ers...wait the 49ers?!? every other team has a minimum of 3 losses. When you look at the teams that are in the gutter I have to say this year has proven just how valuable training camps, preseasons and anything non strike related really is. Seventeen teams are at or below .500, thirteen are at .400 or less.

    I did a little bit of math and figured out that 6 of the 32 teams are outside the first standard deviation. A standard bell curve would dictate that around 68.2% of the population should be in this first standard deviation which says that either games are very competitive or there's been a lot of bad football played here and there. I'm going to go with the later.

    Got side tracked there with some math but basically I'm saying that we can move up and down a few spots but that's about where I'd see us picking. Wow, lots of talking for such a small statement of I think we'll pick 7th or 8th...


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    Quote Originally Posted by azchiefsfan View Post
    I mentioned K Moore, but if Pioli drafts anyone but linemen, then he and Haley need fired and I will be loud and vocal about it. I am serious, EVERY SINGLE DRAFT PICK MUST BE LINEMEN!!!!!
    Haha wow I bet you that comment scared Pioli into drafting all Linemen this season, considering I doubt he has ever visited this site, or gives a hoot on how you think he should build his team. Just a thought (I agree we need some Line help on both sides of the ball, I just thought it was a funny comment that just because you would be vocal about your displeasure with the way he is building the team it would make a difference.)

    Quote Originally Posted by kcnation View Post
    i can't believe some of the posts here,KEEP DORSEY cause you think he is good,wow,the guy is terrible and lazy,and they can get rid of JACKSON too,another lazy LSU TIGER.

    BOWE,you say he should not be signed....are you crazy,he is the only player that has preformed for us the last 2 seasons.if we don't sign BOWE we are headed backwards and it will take over 5 years to get competitive again

    I did a post on another thread comparing our D-lineman's stats to the Steelers D-line stats (mainly because the Steelers are known for stout D and they are also a 3-4, we can't compare 4-3 d-line stats to 3-4 stats, its like comparing apples to oranges)

    anyways, basically what I found was that Dorsey (on average for his carrier) averaged about 20 more tackles per season than both Brett Kiesel and Casey Hampton, and actually averages fairly similar sack totals to Kiesel, and more than Hampton.

    My point was to emphasize that 3-4 D-lineman are not meant to put up stat totals similar to a 4-3 D-lineman like Robert Mathis (This is the reason Albert Hayneworth did not want to play last season in Washington, they made a switch to a 3-4)

    If you really look at Dorsey's stats' they are pretty competitive to some of the top 3-4 DE's in the league.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jrudi View Post
    Haha wow I bet you that comment scared Pioli into drafting all Linemen this season, considering I doubt he has ever visited this site, or gives a hoot on how you think he should build his team. Just a thought (I agree we need some Line help on both sides of the ball, I just thought it was a funny comment that just because you would be vocal about your displeasure with the way he is building the team it would make a difference.)




    I did a post on another thread comparing our D-lineman's stats to the Steelers D-line stats (mainly because the Steelers are known for stout D and they are also a 3-4, we can't compare 4-3 d-line stats to 3-4 stats, its like comparing apples to oranges)

    anyways, basically what I found was that Dorsey (on average for his carrier) averaged about 20 more tackles per season than both Brett Kiesel and Casey Hampton, and actually averages fairly similar sack totals to Kiesel, and more than Hampton.

    My point was to emphasize that 3-4 D-lineman are not meant to put up stat totals similar to a 4-3 D-lineman like Robert Mathis (This is the reason Albert Hayneworth did not want to play last season in Washington, they made a switch to a 3-4)

    If you really look at Dorsey's stats' they are pretty competitive to some of the top 3-4 DE's in the league.
    FWIW, ProFootballFocus (who grades every player on every play) has Dorsey as the 5th best run-stopping 3-4 DE (behind Justin Smith, JJ Watt, Randy Starks, and Mike Devito). His downfall is his pass rushing, as he's the 2nd worst 3-4 DE in that category.

    Tyson Jackson is 9th when it comes to run stopping and 24th (out of 31) in pass rush.

    These aren't really too surprising to me, as this team has struggled to russ the passer all year.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryfo18 View Post
    FWIW, ProFootballFocus (who grades every player on every play) has Dorsey as the 5th best run-stopping 3-4 DE (behind Justin Smith, JJ Watt, Randy Starks, and Mike Devito). His downfall is his pass rushing, as he's the 2nd worst 3-4 DE in that category.

    Tyson Jackson is 9th when it comes to run stopping and 24th (out of 31) in pass rush.

    These aren't really too surprising to me, as this team has struggled to russ the passer all year.
    And that in a nutshell is my problem with the traditional Fairbanks-Bullough 3-4 defensive scheme. It relies too much on "specialized" and specific roles for the front because of the responsibility of handling 2 gaps. So when taken in the context of the F-B system that Crennel uses, they aren't horrible, although the Denver game was a horrible example of not being able to stop what you know is coming. But due to the inflexibility of this system, the ends do not provide a pass rush to essentially any extent. And thus the problem, Tyson Jackson is a very specific 3-4 F-B defensive end. I don't think he would work well in a 1 gap system..and I don't think he could be a 4-3 defensive tackle and definitely not a 4-3 defensive end. Glenn Dorsey is more versatile and I think he would be a much better 1 gap than 2 gap 3-4 end (although not substantially better). Where I see Dorsey as being the best value is as a penetrating 4-3 defensive tackle (think Philadelphia Eagles for example) where he can use his short area quickness to penetrate into the backfield.

    As it stands now, both are playing read-and-react defense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcnation View Post
    BOWE ... is the only player that has preformed for us the last 2 seasons.
    Wait a minute! Are you saying Jamaal Charles, Brandon Flowers and Tamba Hali haven't "preformed for us" in the last year?

    What!?!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryfo18 View Post
    FWIW, ProFootballFocus (who grades every player on every play) has Dorsey as the 5th best run-stopping 3-4 DE (behind Justin Smith, JJ Watt, Randy Starks, and Mike Devito). His downfall is his pass rushing, as he's the 2nd worst 3-4 DE in that category.

    Tyson Jackson is 9th when it comes to run stopping and 24th (out of 31) in pass rush.

    These aren't really too surprising to me, as this team has struggled to russ the passer all year.
    I could agree with that.... But I also agree with the post directly after yours in that, this system isn't fitting their pass rush, it is more of a read and react Defense therefor hindering their pass rush capabilities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jrudi View Post
    I could agree with that.... But I also agree with the post directly after yours in that, this system isn't fitting their pass rush, it is more of a read and react Defense therefor hindering their pass rush capabilities.
    Except the problem with Jackson is he was never much of a pass rusher as a 4-3 defensive end while at LSU..so I don't think he brings much value beyond a run stopper...he is pretty limited....which was my big problem when he was drafted where he was. The 3-4 defensive end is not the foundation you build the 3-4 defense...nose tackle is. There just isn't the inherent value in the position to warrant such a high selection, and Jackson didn't bring much value other than run defense to the 3-4 end position anyway. It wasn't like we were getting a Richard Seymour type of prospect who could hold the end AND get after the quarterback.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nicfre2011 View Post
    Except the problem with Jackson is he was never much of a pass rusher as a 4-3 defensive end while at LSU..so I don't think he brings much value beyond a run stopper...he is pretty limited....which was my big problem when he was drafted where he was. The 3-4 defensive end is not the foundation you build the 3-4 defense...nose tackle is. There just isn't the inherent value in the position to warrant such a high selection, and Jackson didn't bring much value other than run defense to the 3-4 end position anyway. It wasn't like we were getting a Richard Seymour type of prospect who could hold the end AND get after the quarterback.
    No, I agree with you about Jackson, earlier I was more defending Dorsey for being better than what he is given credit for.

    Jackson was just a complete reach, and I've heard that Pioli was in the works to trade back, but couldn't get it done in time, so they had to hurry, and took Jackson (which they wanted later on, if they traded back)

    Although I was pushing for us to take Aaronn Curry (Which has also been unproductive) or Brian Orakpo (which is doing quite well) looking back, we could have grabbed B.J. Raji. Hindsight is always 20/20

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