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Thread: My Take on the Chiefs Win Today (If anyone cares)

  1. #1
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    Default My Take on the Chiefs Win Today (If anyone cares)

    1.) I've been a big fan of Romeo, and this defense all year. Put behind a competent QB that can actually keep the offense moving, the Chiefs defense is probably the most underrated in the league (right there with the Broncos that continue to win "because of Tebow").

    2.) If the Broncos do win the AFC West, this plays well into the hands of the Chiefs. Why?

    The Raiders have no draft picks and are stuck with Carson Palmer, which was a backfire waiting to happen from the beginning. Raiders fans tried to be oblivious of Carson's past and all of the sudden think he's a quarterback capable of leading a team to the playoffs. He is not. And they have about nothing for draft picks in the next year. The Raiders willl continue to be a sub .500 team for the next years coming.

    On the other hand, the Tebow situation is interesting. Broncos fans, they love him. John Elway, on the other hand, is not a big fan. Does this pin the fans vs. management though, into the Broncos not drafting a competent quarterback? Who knows...I don't know if Elway has the stones to go against the fan base ... what I do know though is that Tebow could set that organization back a lot. He's essentially the Vince Young of today. Benefits from a great defense, doesn't do much for himself offensively, and is certainly not the solution for the Broncos.

    3.) The Chiefs are an elite quarterback away from contending. And this point is key, because we, as a fanbase deserve better. We haven't gotten it to this point, and it's been 42 years since this team has been able to bring us a Super Bowl. But let's realize what is in front of us ...

    A defense that can shut down and hold the best offense in the league to 14 points.

    A defense that can keep the Steelers within range of being beat, and provided a competent quarterback, could have won that game.

    A defense that shut the Patriots down for the first half, until the Patriots got the better of them in the 2nd half. Had the Chiefs had an offense that could have put up 30+ points (against a bad defense), that could have been another win.


    What am I getting at? We saw what Orton could do for us today...What could an elite quarterback do on this team, given that we have perhaps the most underrated defense in the league?

    Resign Carr, for one thing...The Chiefs corners have shut down the best wide receivers all year. Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown, Wes Welker, Jordy Nelson, Santonio Holmes, Plaxico Burress...what have they done? Bring back Berry next year, and wow, we have something to really brag about.

    Cassel, or Orton, can lead this team deep into the playoffs. Can they win a Super Bowl? Maybe, but I doubt it. But now is the time with an early draft pick, and a deep QB draft, to draft the QB of the future. If we keep going as we are, we won't be picking in the top 15 in the near future.

    I'm rambling at this point, but will stick to what I've said all year. Put a legit offense with this defense against any team, and you have a Super Bowl contender...The ONLY thing missing from the offense? An elite quarterback.
    Last edited by Ryfo18; 12-18-2011 at 08:25 PM.

  2. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryfo18 View Post
    I absolutely hear what you are saying...But if I were asked, what is the one position you want a stud at? I would say quarterback...Get us a Brady, Rodgers, Brees, etc...Man this team would be fun.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jrudi View Post
    I would actually have to disagree with you on this.

    We need a team that can pick up the other side of the ball. Too many times this year the Defense has bailed the offense out, so what happens when the defense has a bad day? we get blown out by the Bills, Lions, and Dolphins.

    Just saying, we need an offense that has the ability to put points on the board as well, and even Sunday we only scored 19. We need an offense that has the ability to win a shootout in case the D is having a down game.

    Our D has played great at times this year, and I feel is under-rated, but just like our Defense has helped keep us in games, we need an Offense that can help out our defense as well, and an Elite QB would definitely help that cause.

    Also, Since 2004 here are the QB's that won the Super Bowl: Rogers, Brees, Big Ben, Eli, Peyton, & Brady (All Elite QB's)
    And even the loosers had the likes of Warner, McNabb, Brady, Peyton, Big Ben, Hasselbeck (who was considered Elite at the Time).

    The one exception: Rex Grossman (who could probably be arguably the worst QB to ever reach a SB.) So 1 out of 14 teams since 2004 to reach the SB had a "mediocre" QB....Odds don't look very good. I'll roll the dice with a potential elite...
    I understand your position Jrudi and I think Ryfo sums up the feelings of most fans of most teams nicely. I'm not opposed to getting a stud QB and I don't think anybody would be disappointed if we got one. I just don't see the QB position as being as much of a need as you do. I don't want to see us giving up draft picks to move up and get one of the top QBs, when the O-line is not equipped to protect him and he may have to develop on the bench for a year or two. Picking a QB may be one of the biggest gambles in the draft. I've seen too many 1st round picks struggle or become busts and too many later round picks eventually develop into good QBs

    I think both Orton and Cassel are better than people are giving them credit for (although will probably never be considered "elite" in this type of offense) and I've seen even average QBs shine behind great O-lines when they have "all day" to throw the ball.

    People are always pointing out the elite QBs that have made it to the super Bowl in recent years, but when was the last time a team with a defense as good as ours could be next year made it to the Super Bowl? I would have to say that was in 2005 when the Bears made it with ...

    wait for it ....

    Rex Grossman!
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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopekaRoy View Post
    I understand your position Jrudi and I think Ryfo sums up the feelings of most fans of most teams nicely. I'm not opposed to getting a stud QB and I don't think anybody would be disappointed if we got one. I just don't see the QB position as being as much of a need as you do. I don't want to see us giving up draft picks to move up and get one of the top QBs, when the O-line is not equipped to protect him and he may have to develop on the bench for a year or two. Picking a QB may be one of the biggest gambles in the draft. I've seen too many 1st round picks struggle or become busts and too many later round picks eventually develop into good QBs

    I think both Orton and Cassel are better than people are giving them credit for (although will probably never be considered "elite" in this type of offense) and I've seen even average QBs shine behind great O-lines when they have "all day" to throw the ball.

    People are always pointing out the elite QBs that have made it to the super Bowl in recent years, but when was the last time a team with a defense as good as ours could be next year made it to the Super Bowl? I would have to say that was in 2005 when the Bears made it with ...

    wait for it ....

    Rex Grossman!

    I see your point about a good defense taking a team to the SB such as the 2005 bears, But as I also posted recent history has shown us that the chance that this combination takes us to a Super Bowl is pretty unlikely (I mentioned of the last 14 teams to make the Super Bowl, only 1, a la Rex Grossman, was not considered Elite at the time they made it.)

    So that's basically saying that without an arguably elite QB (Taking into consideration all the SB's since 2004) only 7% of the time a non elite QB was playing in the Super Bowl, and a 0% of those (ONE) mediore QB's won it!) (You have to look at RECENT history due to rule changes, it has morphed the league into a QB friendly league)

    As for the O-line. I've mentioned this recently as well. Our O-line is not as bad as it is made out to be. Albert is better than People give him credit for, Asamoah and Hudson are young talents that have proven to be good players, showing that our Main issues going forward lie with and older and undersized Lilja, and a guy in Richardson who just isn't that good.

    That being said, I don't find the need to use a 1st round pick on a RT, or a LG if we have an opportunity to grab a potential franchise QB. I have mentioned on other threads that I think this will be our most active off season in FA than we have seen, due to recent comments from Pioli. I suggested the idea that we go after a good young FA prospect to fill our RT or LG spots, and fill the other one throught the draft.

    I like the idea of targeting Ben Grubbs (OG with Baltimore) he is still fairly young (27) and is one of the top FA OG's this offseason. If we can do that we could look to add a RT prospect like Andrew Datko from Florida state in Round 2 or a Guy like Branden Mosley from Auburn in round 3. With Mims and Maneri on our roster as well, you would have to think we could find a solid RT with 4 to choose from.

    Those moves right there would solidify our line for years to come, and we can then continue to develop players along the way.

    Ryfo and I have mentioned this before as well. Go look at the teams who have recently drafted a top LT in the recent years (in the top 5-10) and their records since, vs the teams who have drafted QB's in the top 5-10 in recent years.

    Needless to say, those teams like the Seahawks, Redskins, Browns and Dolphins still haven't had success without a QB.

    The teams that have drafted OT's in the first round in recent years that are having success, had answers at the QB Position.

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jrudi View Post
    I see your point about a good defense taking a team to the SB such as the 2005 bears, But as I also posted recent history has shown us that the chance that this combination takes us to a Super Bowl is pretty unlikely (I mentioned of the last 14 teams to make the Super Bowl, only 1, a la Rex Grossman, was not considered Elite at the time they made it.)

    So that's basically saying that without an arguably elite QB (Taking into consideration all the SB's since 2004) only 7% of the time a non elite QB was playing in the Super Bowl, and a 0% of those (ONE) mediore QB's won it!) (You have to look at RECENT history due to rule changes, it has morphed the league into a QB friendly league)

    As for the O-line. I've mentioned this recently as well. Our O-line is not as bad as it is made out to be. Albert is better than People give him credit for, Asamoah and Hudson are young talents that have proven to be good players, showing that our Main issues going forward lie with and older and undersized Lilja, and a guy in Richardson who just isn't that good.

    That being said, I don't find the need to use a 1st round pick on a RT, or a LG if we have an opportunity to grab a potential franchise QB. I have mentioned on other threads that I think this will be our most active off season in FA than we have seen, due to recent comments from Pioli. I suggested the idea that we go after a good young FA prospect to fill our RT or LG spots, and fill the other one throught the draft.

    I like the idea of targeting Ben Grubbs (OG with Baltimore) he is still fairly young (27) and is one of the top FA OG's this offseason. If we can do that we could look to add a RT prospect like Andrew Datko from Florida state in Round 2 or a Guy like Branden Mosley from Auburn in round 3. With Mims and Maneri on our roster as well, you would have to think we could find a solid RT with 4 to choose from.

    Those moves right there would solidify our line for years to come, and we can then continue to develop players along the way.

    Ryfo and I have mentioned this before as well. Go look at the teams who have recently drafted a top LT in the recent years (in the top 5-10) and their records since, vs the teams who have drafted QB's in the top 5-10 in recent years.

    Needless to say, those teams like the Seahawks, Redskins, Browns and Dolphins still haven't had success without a QB.

    The teams that have drafted OT's in the first round in recent years that are having success, had answers at the QB Position.
    I think we agree here a lot more than we disagree. I also think Pioli will be very active in FA next year especially with the extra salary cap money we will be able to carry over from this year. I also agree that our O-line is not that bad, but it definitely is not as good as we need it to be either.

    I would like nothing more than to fix the O-line and get a great QB as well. And you make a good point about drafting offensive linemen as well. It's just about as big a crap shoot as getting a franchise QB is. You can definitely get good O-linemen in later rounds. You just never know which ones are going to be good until they have played a little in the NFL. Free agency might be the safer way to go here as long as we can get some players who are young enough that they will be around for a while.

    We are certainly in a good position to dramatically improve next year and I don't think we are that far away from being a contender.

    I can't wait to see what we do.
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  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopekaRoy View Post
    I think we agree here a lot more than we disagree. I also think Pioli will be very active in FA next year especially with the extra salary cap money we will be able to carry over from this year. I also agree that our O-line is not that bad, but it definitely is not as good as we need it to be either.

    I would like nothing more than to fix the O-line and get a great QB as well. And you make a good point about drafting offensive linemen as well. It's just about as big a crap shoot as getting a franchise QB is. You can definitely get good O-linemen in later rounds. You just never know which ones are going to be good until they have played a little in the NFL. Free agency might be the safer way to go here as long as we can get some players who are young enough that they will be around for a while.

    We are certainly in a good position to dramatically improve next year and I don't think we are that far away from being a contender.

    I can't wait to see what we do.
    Hey I agree!!! woo hoo haha

    Nice debate we had going there. And yes I think we both agree that we are excited for the situation we are in right now.

    With the QB's we have on our roster right now, and the scenarios that could happen to help us improve our team (weather its re-signing, trading, gaining compensation, or drafting) I think we are in a good situation with the QB position.

    This is the first year I can remember in recent years where I looked over our roster and didn't see a GLARING need that needed to find an impact starter right away. (Of course the positions we had mentioned would be first on the list, but if we don't get all of them filled I feel we could still compete)

    We can definitely always improve everywhere, but I do feel that with our young talented group, that we are just a couple of additions away from elevating ourselves as one of the AFC's elite (& possibly NFL's)

  6. #35
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    Getting an elite QB is overrated, because you can't just go grab one. A good OC/QB coach and good supporting cast on the other hand can turn an average QB close to elite. Look at the Dolts.

    This is not a deep QB draft as xperts claimed it to be. Other than Luck there is no one special. Maybe some Vince Youngs or Joe Flaccos. Is Flacco better than Cassel or Orton? I don't think so.

  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jrudi View Post
    Hey I agree!!! woo hoo haha

    Nice debate we had going there. And yes I think we both agree that we are excited for the situation we are in right now.

    With the QB's we have on our roster right now, and the scenarios that could happen to help us improve our team (weather its re-signing, trading, gaining compensation, or drafting) I think we are in a good situation with the QB position.

    This is the first year I can remember in recent years where I looked over our roster and didn't see a GLARING need that needed to find an impact starter right away. (Of course the positions we had mentioned would be first on the list, but if we don't get all of them filled I feel we could still compete)

    We can definitely always improve everywhere, but I do feel that with our young talented group, that we are just a couple of additions away from elevating ourselves as one of the AFC's elite (& possibly NFL's)
    I think a lot of us here agree with this general idea: "A high quality QB is nice, but only if we upgrade the line also."

    I (like some here) think the OL is in worse condition than QB, but I will also concede that the positions that we need the MOST help with on the OL can be easily acquired through FA or the 2nd round.

    That having been said, I am not sure if the QBs will be there when we draft. We will likely be around 10-14, depending on if we win any of the rest of our games. If we make it to the playoffs, then we will be drafting much later than that. I am starting to think the only way we get a QB is if a bunch of people end up passing on QBs, which is possible, or we lose the next two games (hopefully not).

    Arizona is probably going to go OL to protect the two decent QBs they already have.

    Tennessee has Jake Locker for when Hasselbeck finally is done with being injured.

    Miami is doing well with Matt Moore, and may look to upgrade their OL to open holes for Bush and keep Moore healthy. Then again new coaches usually equal new QBs.

    Seattle will probably finish with an equal or better record than us, and they MAY want a QB.

    Indy may draft Luck ... or may not?

    Jax MAY go for a QB, or may decide to stick with Gabbert for a year and fill their 20 other needs.

    Washington does need a QB, but not desperately (Grossman has flashes of being manageable).

    I cant think of anyone else in the bottom half of the draft who would even consider getting a QB. So 3 teams that PROBABLY want a QB and one that MAYBE wants a QB.

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jrudi View Post
    Hey I agree!!! woo hoo haha

    Nice debate we had going there. And yes I think we both agree that we are excited for the situation we are in right now.

    With the QB's we have on our roster right now, and the scenarios that could happen to help us improve our team (weather its re-signing, trading, gaining compensation, or drafting) I think we are in a good situation with the QB position.

    This is the first year I can remember in recent years where I looked over our roster and didn't see a GLARING need that needed to find an impact starter right away. (Of course the positions we had mentioned would be first on the list, but if we don't get all of them filled I feel we could still compete)

    We can definitely always improve everywhere, but I do feel that with our young talented group, that we are just a couple of additions away from elevating ourselves as one of the AFC's elite (& possibly NFL's)
    Have to agree with you. Really kind of unusual and encouraging to be so optimistic at the tail end of what has been a generally unhappy season.

  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jrudi View Post
    Hey I agree!!! woo hoo haha
    Woo hoo!



    Quote Originally Posted by boiler01 View Post
    Getting an elite QB is overrated
    And Boiler01 is on my side, so there!
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  10. #39
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    After Gonzo, Allen and Waters I always have that uneasy feeling going into the off season.....

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by boiler01 View Post
    Getting an elite QB is overrated, because you can't just go grab one. A good OC/QB coach and good supporting cast on the other hand can turn an average QB close to elite. Look at the Dolts.

    This is not a deep QB draft as xperts claimed it to be. Other than Luck there is no one special. Maybe some Vince Youngs or Joe Flaccos. Is Flacco better than Cassel or Orton? I don't think so.
    First off, even though I hate Phillip Rivers, the dude is an elite QB (and hands down the best player on the Chargers team, even in his down year this year) that is not a product of his coaching, I actually think the coaching hampers his abilities.

    I would take Rivers over our options any day (and think we would be damn good if we had him). I love to hate Rivers, but would love it even more, if the Chargers hated him because he was a Chief!

    Then for the comment on the Experts not know what they are talking about regarding this years depth at QB??? Are you nuts, those guys get paid for a living to scout those guys, they've got much more information than we do, and I would trust the opinion of a paid professional over a dude on a forum that anyone can join.

    And actually.... Cassel's total QBR with the Chiefs has been 79.8 Ortons career average is 77.15

    Flacco's career average is 85.8

    so if you look at the #'s then Flacco could be considered better than both Cassel and Orton.

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