Cassel always had better WR's then Orton

**figcrostic** · 12-22-2011, 12:54 PM

Some people say Cassel has better numbers so he's the better QB, I think Orton has never had the talent Cassel has. Lets look at their WR's over the years

Cassel
2008: Wes Welker (still one of the best wr's in the league), Randy Moss(the year prior he had 1500 yards and 23 td's, Jabar Gaffney (ok wr)
2009: Dwayne Bowe, Chris Chambers, Quinten Lawrence very comparable to Orton's cast of 2009 except Bowe is more talented then Lloyd
2010: Dwayne Bowe, Chris Chambers (about the same as royal), Terrance Copper (better the Mckinnley). 2010 I think the slight edge goes to KC again especially considering we had Moeaki and Charles.

Orton
2008: Devin Hester, Brandon Lloyd (I know people think Brandon Lloyd is amazing but look at his career prior to Orton and after he was mediocore)
2009: Eddie Royal (Royal had one good year but hasn't done anything since), Brandon Lloyd, Kenny McKinley (don't even know who this is)
2010: Same cast as 2009 but Orton turned Brandon Lloyd into a pro-bowler with 1500 yards and 11 td's previously he had never had over 755 yards in a season.

Listen I'm not saying Orton is the best, but I have always thought he was slightly better then Cassel even when he was a donkey. Now he may prove me wrong but from what I've seen over the last couple years I see a good qb that was put in a bad situation this could very well be Rich Gannon. Look at Rich Gannon's career he was never thought of as a good player he went from team to team until the Faiders picked him up and believed in him. Orton has never had anyone believe in him and I think depending on how the next couple games go he could and should be our starter. If he sucks I will be right along with the other haters but until then I like what I see.

**TopekaRoy** · 12-23-2011, 01:07 AM

Originally Posted by My Man Orton

Majority of starters on d for GB didnt play in that game

What are you talking about? The Chiefs game? I just checked their depth chart and the only starter that didn't play was Charles Woodson.

1 player out of 11 does not a majority make.

**AkChief49** · 12-23-2011, 01:12 AM

Originally Posted by TopekaRoy

What are you talking about? The Chiefs game? I just checked their depth chart and the only starter that didn't play was Charles Woodson.

1 player out of 11 does not a majority make.

He has to be talking about the Pre-season game.-Yep!

**TopekaRoy** · 12-23-2011, 01:28 AM

Originally Posted by My Man Orton

You need to look at the Defensive box score again

Kansas City Chiefs vs. Green Bay Packers - Box Score - September 01, 2011 - ESPN

I'm sorry. I thought you were talking about a real game. You never mentioned preseason and AKChiefs49 talked about both games in the post you quoted so I was confused.

**doobs_05** · 12-23-2011, 01:32 AM

Cassel is a back up at best......look at his college numbers

**nigeriannightmare** · 12-23-2011, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by My Man Orton

What about Jamaal Charles? What RB did Orton have for the defense to get the focus off of the passing game?

Ur right the bears have never been known to run the ball pretty sure a certain thomas jones was there 1000 yard rusher till he was sold out. And cedric benson, and now matt forte.

**nigeriannightmare** · 12-23-2011, 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by figcrostic

Some people say Cassel has better numbers so he's the better QB, I think Orton has never had the talent Cassel has. Lets look at their WR's over the years

Cassel
2008: Wes Welker (still one of the best wr's in the league), Randy Moss(the year prior he had 1500 yards and 23 td's, Jabar Gaffney (ok wr)
2009: Dwayne Bowe, Chris Chambers, Quinten Lawrence very comparable to Orton's cast of 2009 except Bowe is more talented then Lloyd
2010: Dwayne Bowe, Chris Chambers (about the same as royal), Terrance Copper (better the Mckinnley). 2010 I think the slight edge goes to KC again especially considering we had Moeaki and Charles.

Orton
2008: Devin Hester, Brandon Lloyd (I know people think Brandon Lloyd is amazing but look at his career prior to Orton and after he was mediocore)
2009: Eddie Royal (Royal had one good year but hasn't done anything since), Brandon Lloyd, Kenny McKinley (don't even know who this is)
2010: Same cast as 2009 but Orton turned Brandon Lloyd into a pro-bowler with 1500 yards and 11 td's previously he had never had over 755 yards in a season.

Listen I'm not saying Orton is the best, but I have always thought he was slightly better then Cassel even when he was a donkey. Now he may prove me wrong but from what I've seen over the last couple years I see a good qb that was put in a bad situation this could very well be Rich Gannon. Look at Rich Gannon's career he was never thought of as a good player he went from team to team until the Faiders picked him up and believed in him. Orton has never had anyone believe in him and I think depending on how the next couple games go he could and should be our starter. If he sucks I will be right along with the other haters but until then I like what I see.

U honestly think bowe, copper, an over the hill chambers are the same as lloyd, royal, and jabar gafney.....that is not a fair comparison at all.

**azchiefsfan** · 12-23-2011, 10:32 AM

From what I have seen of Orton and after 3 seasons of Cassel, I would break it down thusly:
Healthy and strong OL: Cassel
Beat up and weak OL: Orton
Judgement and decision-making: Cassel
Ball control: Cassel
Shoot-out game: Orton

I think with a stronger and healthy offense, I want Cassel back there not giving up the ball and directing the juggernaut. For a battered and faltering offense, I want Orton just chucking the ball like a caveman to make something happen. If our offense gets back to last years form, I want Cassel as he is a laser artist with a good crew around him. If we are still struggling and need a spark and someone to take chance to get us going, it looks like Orton might be the guy.

**azchiefsfan** · 12-23-2011, 11:09 AM

p.s. I mean who would I want in each circumstance.

**OPLookn** · 12-23-2011, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by chief31

2008, granted.
2009, no.
2010, no.

Lloyd - 9 Games; 42 Catches; 554 Yards, 4 TDs
Bowe - 9 Games; 46 Catches; 566 Yards, 0 TDs

And that is with a new offense, a sophmore QB (Most games) and the worst offense in The NFL.

Brandon Lloyd is pretty good. As strong as any case for Orton making Lloyd good, the reverse case, of Lloyd making Orton good is just as strong. And a pretty strong case for Lloyd, against Bowe, could be made too.

How did Orton look before he teamed up with Lloyd?

Who made who?

Chris Chambers, 2009 - 36 Catches, 608 Yards; 4 TDs ... 2010- 22 Catches; 213 Yards; 1 TD.

Eddie Royal, 2009 - 37 Catches; 345 Yards; 0 TDs ... 2010 - 59 Catches, 627 Yards, 3 TDs

And you forgot 2009/10 Jabar Gaffney playing for The Broncos....

2009 - 54 Catches; 732 Yards; 2 TDs ... 2010 - 65 Catches; 875 Yards; 2 TDs

That is a pretty big omission.

And, just to show what kind of talent Gaffney is, he has 58 Catches; 842 Yards; and 4 TDs this season, with The Redskins.

I think that, if you place Gaffney up against Chambers for 2009, and 2010, and then put Royal against Quentin Lawrence, and Terrance Copper, you will probably be forced to come the conclusion that Orton had the better WRs in both of those years.

Where did you get the stats for the highlighted red part? If you're talking about 2009 Lloyd only played in 2 games. In 2010 both Bowe and Lloyd played in all 16 games.

But overall I agree with you, I'd say Orton had the edge or they'd be about equal at best. The other thing to look at though is the line. Denver didn't really start addressing the O-line until 2010 and finished it off in 2011. My guess is that Orton was running for his life just like Cassel was in 2009. In 2010 Denver's line was starting to gel but still had some holes. As for the Chiefs our rushing attack kept people off Cassel. So I'd have to give Orton the edge in having a worse situation in 2010.

Either way, I'm not saying one is better than the other. All I know is that the NFL is a what have you done for me lately league and Orton just beat the reigning SB champs that look to repeat this year. I also like the fact that Orton gets the ball, makes his reads and gets rid of the ball faster. Which is why I lean towards Orton but that's like asking which of the two ugly gals over in the corner is the most pretty.

**OPLookn** · 12-23-2011, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by My Man Orton

Oh my bad I thought whoever it was above was comparing Orton's game against the packers to cassel's preseason game against the pack

You've got to be out of your mind trying to compare a preseason game against a regular season game. I don't care that they both played this year. That's like saying hey compare these two completely different teams in 2009 and 2010 and see how the different QB's were against them.