The end all, be all Cassel/orton debate thread....

**KCraised** · 12-27-2011, 09:56 PM

There are alot of little flare ups on this forums about the cassel haters and Orton haters. Both players have strengths and weaknesses. Lets hear peoples voices about a pro and con about both players. Let's see where it goes and let's respect the other and keep it civil! Bottom line, we are all Chiefs fans or we wouldn't hopefully be on this forum.....God help us.

Cassel pro: think he scrambles better than Orton
Cassel con: seems to panic under the first sign of pressure

Orton pro: Better downfield accuracy
Orton con: His inexperience with this Organization, compared to Cassel

Just getting the ball rolling. Lets see what happens and where it goes....

**jap1** · 12-28-2011, 06:18 PM

One other point I would like to bring up. Even if one of the QBs did somehow fall to us in the 1st round, I am a little torn on whether or not to take one. I think we are very close to competing next year. When was the last time a rookie QB took a team to the Superbowl? I think we have a better chance with an average/above average QB (Orton or Cassel) than with a rookie who will take a couple years to get their bearings on the game speed in the NFL.

**azchiefsfan** · 12-28-2011, 06:30 PM

I was trying to be fair and I am hoping his decision-making and ability to open up his game can improve without Haley's leash around his neck. I think he can, but for 3 years all we've seen is a system QB. He is good, don't get me wrong, but he is going to have to be more than that to get us where we want to go. It's time for Air Cassel.

**2010chiefs** · 12-28-2011, 08:12 PM

It seems everyones believes Cassel deserves another chance due to Hailey's departure. With different play calling, and Hailey out of the mix he might do better. I agree he deserves a chance with different play calling, however I also want to see Romeo or whoever our coach is next year pull him out of the game if it's the same Cassel we seen this year.

How bad must he be before you replace him with Orton?

**N TX Dave** · 12-29-2011, 02:12 AM

Originally Posted by 2010chiefs

It seems everyones believes Cassel deserves another chance due to Hailey's departure. With different play calling, and Hailey out of the mix he might do better. I agree he deserves a chance with different play calling, however I also want to see Romeo or whoever our coach is next year pull him out of the game if it's the same Cassel we seen this year.

How bad must he be before you replace him with Orton?

That is assuming we keep Orton he is a free agent after the year.

**KCraised** · 12-29-2011, 03:35 AM

Originally Posted by N TX Dave

That is assuming we keep Orton he is a free agent after the year.

I would say Orton's future with the Chiefs depends on how well he plays in Denver. Need to see redzone improvement. And seeings how this game is a revenge game for him, you are going to see him put up some numbers. Just my guess...

**chief31** · 12-29-2011, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by KCraised

I would say Orton's future with the Chiefs depends on how well he plays in Denver. Need to see redzone improvement. And seeings how this game is a revenge game for him, you are going to see him put up some numbers. Just my guess...

I think the biggest factor for an possble QB in KC is primarily dependent upon Pioli's deciision for our next HC.

But yeah, Orton playing well for another game would be big.

**okikcfan** · 12-29-2011, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by KCraised

I would say Orton's future with the Chiefs depends on how well he plays in Denver. Need to see redzone improvement. And seeings how this game is a revenge game for him, you are going to see him put up some numbers. Just my guess...

Lets hope so, but if he does do well that will open up his employment op"s. I don't think he will be here next year.

**TopekaRoy** · 12-29-2011, 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by N TX Dave

That is assuming we keep Orton he is a free agent after the year.

He is a restricted free agent, so if another team wants him they have to be the highest bidder and give up a high draft pick.

Her's the thing, though. In most cases that draft pick would be enough to keep other teams from signing a player. It's too costly. But if Orton doesn't want to stay in KC it's very possible that he would take less money to guarantee that he can start elsewhere.

on the other hand, I think Kyle is just cocky enough that he would sincerely believe he can beat out Cassel for the starting job if he stayed. (See how I got around the swear filter, there?

) especially if he has a good game in Denver. His team mates are playing hard for him, the coaches seem to like him and he is a good fit for this offense.

Cassel shouldn't lose his job as the starter because of injury, but I don't see any reason why he can't compete for it.

If the Chiefs sign Orton, does that mean the Cassel's days in KC are numbered? Not necessarily. We saw this year, how important a good veteran back-up QB is to this team. Either guy would make an excellent back-up. It may not be what they want and it's not likely to happen, but I think it would be worth the money to the Chiefs to keep them both. We could continue to develop Stanzi without having to sell out the team for an "elite" QB and without the fear that a QB injury would devastate the team.

I don't see it happening. It might not be the best situation for Cassel, or Orton, but it would be great for the Chiefs.

**#58ChiefsFan** · 12-29-2011, 06:38 PM

I want a ****y quarterback like you described.

Though it's not entirely Ortons fault we haven't been able to finish drives I almost believe if we had a high red zone efficiency with him he could have Wally Pipped Cassel.

**70 chiefsfan70** · 12-29-2011, 09:39 PM

Originally Posted by TopekaRoy

He is a restricted free agent, so if another team wants him they have to be the highest bidder and give up a high draft pick.

Her's the thing, though. In most cases that draft pick would be enough to keep other teams from signing a player. It's too costly. But if Orton doesn't want to stay in KC it's very possible that he would take less money to guarantee that he can start elsewhere.

on the other hand, I think Kyle is just cocky enough that he would sincerely believe he can beat out Cassel for the starting job if he stayed. (See how I got around the swear filter, there?

) especially if he has a good game in Denver. His team mates are playing hard for him, the coaches seem to like him and he is a good fit for this offense.

Cassel shouldn't lose his job as the starter because of injury, but I don't see any reason why he can't compete for it.

If the Chiefs sign Orton, does that mean the Cassel's days in KC are numbered? Not necessarily. We saw this year, how important a good veteran back-up QB is to this team. Either guy would make an excellent back-up. It may not be what they want and it's not likely to happen, but I think it would be worth the money to the Chiefs to keep them both. We could continue to develop Stanzi without having to sell out the team for an "elite" QB and without the fear that a QB injury would devastate the team.

I don't see it happening. It might not be the best situation for Cassel, or Orton, but it would be great for the Chiefs.

I agree with you, I'd like to see the Chiefs sign Orton and let him, Cassel, Stanzi, and a new draft pick compete for the starting job. If the new pick or Stanzi do well, I'd then trade either Orton or Cassel for a second? possible third 2013 pick.

ps...I really believe Orton is better for the chiefs team, as he clearly makes the OL look better and I'm sure a healthy JC would make them look even better. Even the Wrs suddenly seem to be running their routes better.
I like competition.