The end all, be all Cassel/orton debate thread....

**KCraised** · 12-27-2011, 09:56 PM

There are alot of little flare ups on this forums about the cassel haters and Orton haters. Both players have strengths and weaknesses. Lets hear peoples voices about a pro and con about both players. Let's see where it goes and let's respect the other and keep it civil! Bottom line, we are all Chiefs fans or we wouldn't hopefully be on this forum.....God help us.

Cassel pro: think he scrambles better than Orton
Cassel con: seems to panic under the first sign of pressure

Orton pro: Better downfield accuracy
Orton con: His inexperience with this Organization, compared to Cassel

Just getting the ball rolling. Lets see what happens and where it goes....

**nigeriannightmare** · 12-30-2011, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by My Man Orton

Just please no matt cassel. Please god. Chief 31 i beg of you, you are a pioli supporter, he must know this! Call him up and demand cassel be cut! For the love of god! I cant take any more flat passes! I cant take any more 2 yd completions! AGGGHGHGGH

Nope we are gonna make his wife director of pro personel and hire anyone that is tied to the cassel family tree. Then when hes retired as a chief hell become the coach/gm.

So the then i guess u dont like bill walsh and joe montana who won 4 superbowls. They made a living on short passes.

**Jrudi** · 12-30-2011, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by 70 chiefsfan70

I agree with you, I'd like to see the Chiefs sign Orton and let him, Cassel, Stanzi, and a new draft pick compete for the starting job. If the new pick or Stanzi do well, I'd then trade either Orton or Cassel for a second? possible third 2013 pick.

ps...I really believe Orton is better for the chiefs team, as he clearly makes the OL look better and I'm sure a healthy JC would make them look even better. Even the Wrs suddenly seem to be running their routes better.
I like competition.

The only thing I don't like about this is that I would really like to see us make some sort of decision before the draft instead of taking all 4 qbs to camp (assuming we draft another QB)

I would rather see us gain the compensation (Draft Picks) for THIS YEARS draft rather than waiting until training camp and grabbing next year's picks.

I would think the VALUE of each player would be higher prior to this years draft or we could receive better compensation for each player because if we wait until training camp, most teams have already addressed their needs as far as their starters go, And we would basically be saying " hey, we took these guys to camp, and the other QB we are keeping is better than this guy, so we're putting him on the trade block" Not a very desirable sales pitch if you ask me.

I think if we look to move one prior to the draft, they could be worth anywhere from a 2nd-3rd, if we wait until training camp, I think it moves it back to a 3rd-4th.

**KCraised** · 12-30-2011, 12:40 PM

Interesting article on Arrowhead Pride about Cassel vs. orton. If you haven't read it, check it out.

**TopekaRoy** · 12-30-2011, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by KCraised

Interesting article on Arrowhead Pride about Cassel vs. orton. If you haven't read it, check it out.

How 'bout posting a link?

**TopekaRoy** · 12-30-2011, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by Jrudi

I would think the VALUE of each player would be higher prior to this years draft or we could receive better compensation for each player because if we wait until training camp, most teams have already addressed their needs as far as their starters go, And we would basically be saying " hey, we took these guys to camp, and the other QB we are keeping is better than this guy, so we're putting him on the trade block" Not a very desirable sales pitch if you ask me.

I think if we look to move one prior to the draft, they could be worth anywhere from a 2nd-3rd, if we wait until training camp, I think it moves it back to a 3rd-4th.

You make a very good point, but isn't it also possible that some teams will have greater need for a QB at the conclusion of training camp? Maybe a starter gets hurt or a backup on another team looks really bad. Then that team becomes more desperate to pick up a QB and Orton or Cassel could become more valuable.

I think it is worth the risk of losing some value to make sure we keep the right guy. Orton hasn't had enough time to show what he can do with this team, and neither QB has had a chance to work with whoever the new coaching staff will be.

It's all about doing what's best for the team and there are advantages and disadvantages whichever way they go. A new HC might not want any of our current QBs, but I would like to see them get a chance to work with the new staff.

**Jrudi** · 12-30-2011, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by TopekaRoy

You make a very good point, but isn't it also possible that some teams will have greater need for a QB at the conclusion of training camp? Maybe a starter gets hurt or a backup on another team looks really bad. Then that team becomes more desperate to pick up a QB and Orton or Cassel could become more valuable.

I think it is worth the risk of losing some value to make sure we keep the right guy. Orton hasn't had enough time to show what he can do with this team, and neither QB has had a chance to work with whoever the new coaching staff will be.

It's all about doing what's best for the team and there are advantages and disadvantages whichever way they go. A new HC might not want any of our current QBs, but I would like to see them get a chance to work with the new staff.

With this scenario, your banking on a "possibility" so it might not happen. Like you said it's a risk that might not pay off, or might pay off better.

I don't know, there's lots of scenario's that can take place, I just think that whoever the new HC is, they need to come in and decide fairly quickly what they are going to do about the QB position, there has never been a team that I have seen do well with a QB competition.

Just like Romeo came in right away and said "we're going with Orton if he's healthy" It allows the team to prepare and know who their leader is going to be on Sundays.

The QB position garners the most need for stability and reps throughout practice, and splitting reps, or playing with someone looking over you shoulder could have a negative effect on our team.

**TopekaRoy** · 12-30-2011, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by Jrudi

With this scenario, your banking on a "possibility" so it might not happen. Like you said it's a risk that might not pay off, or might pay off better.

I don't know, there's lots of scenario's that can take place, I just think that whoever the new HC is, they need to come in and decide fairly quickly what they are going to do about the QB position, there has never been a team that I have seen do well with a QB competition.

Just like Romeo came in right away and said "we're going with Orton if he's healthy" It allows the team to prepare and know who their leader is going to be on Sundays.

The QB position garners the most need for stability and reps throughout practice, and splitting reps, or playing with someone looking over you shoulder could have a negative effect on our team.

Yeah, there's a lot of uncertainty surrounding the team right now and I'm sure every move will be 2nd guessed ad nauseum.

I completely agree with you that having a QB controversy can hurt a team during the regular season, but I think competition at the position can be a very good thing during training camp. And I don't think that having a very good back-up is the same thing as a QB controversy as long as a firm decision is made on who the starter is before the regular season begins, and the coach sticks with that decision unless the starter plays badly.

It will be a very interesting off season, to say the least.

**okikcfan** · 12-30-2011, 01:59 PM

A few weeks ago I was on 610 Sports with Danny Parkins and he asked me which quarterback I thought the Kansas City Chiefs should bring back next year -- Matt Cassel or Kyle Orton. My answer was both of them. Why not stack the most important position in sports with as much talent as possible?

As it turns out, an Orton vs. Cassel training camp battle is indeed possible next year. Michael Lombardi of NFL.com reports that the Chiefs "will make an effort to sign [Orton] this offseason" and have him compete with Cassel next year.

Chiefs interim coach Romeo Crennel certainly sounded open to the possibility when asked a couple weeks ago about Orton's chances of sticking with the Chiefs beyond this season.

The question is whether Orton wants to return to KC. Reasons not to come back would be A.) more money elsewhere and/or B.) better opportunity elsewhere.

The Chiefs have the capability, as far as the salary cap is concerned, to throw a competitive offer at him. And it'll be interesting to see what kind of offers Orton has this offseason, and whether beating out Cassel in KC may be his best shot at a starting job.

So this tells us that this Week 17 game has a lot of importance. Orton will only play in three games for the Chiefs this year so every game on which you can evaluate him is an important one.