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Thread: QB challenge 2012 edition

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  1. #1
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    Default QB challenge 2012 edition


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    Career stats
    Cassel 59% 11,699 yards 76td's 45int 169.6 ypg 82.5 rate passes 20+ yards 139 40+ yards 23
    Orton 58.3% 14,532 yards 80td's 50int 204.7pg 79.4 rate passes 20+ yards 174 40+ yards 31

    Last 3 games
    Cassel 52.4 607 yards 2td's 2int 202 ypg rate 69.4 sks 12
    Orton 60.8% 779 yards 1td 2int 260 ypg 81.1 rate sks 1

    Against the same opponents as a Chief 2011/12 season
    (Denver and Raiders)
    Cassel 48.2% 254 yards 1td 2int 52.4 rate 2sks 1 win
    Orton 55% 480 yards 1td 2int 71 rate 1sks 1 win

    This is a lot of work so if anyone wants to help out I'm all for it, I'm going to next look at how they both performed against top 5 pass defenses but I have some things to do today, so It might take awhile.

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    They're pretty even, had Cassel not gotten hurt he may have been on pace with Orton with the INT's, however, by the same token Orton did not play all season either.


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    The biggest difference between the two situation, as Chiefs in 2011, is the timing of their experiences.

    Cassel had his time coming of the shortened preseason, with a first time OC, and an O-line shake-up. Then there was the the loss of Jamaal Charles, whom the offense was designed around.

    Not that the offense ever really got it together while he was there, but it is the fact that he was dealing with it all when it was fresh.

    Orton, while having to come into the situation late in the year in not an advantage in itself, did benefit by playing with an offense that had been dealing with those issues for most of the year, worked out some of the kinks, and the O-line had most of a season of working together.

    I think Kyle performed better.

    I am just unsure of how much of that was Kyle, and how much was due to an O-line with more time together, a leash being removed from the play-calling, and a situation where Tyler Palko made things look even worse.

    I think both guys have a very high ceiling. And I will be happy to see either at QB in 2012, but even happier if we force them both into a direct competition for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chief31 View Post
    The biggest difference between the two situation, as Chiefs in 2011, is the timing of their experiences.

    Cassel had his time coming of the shortened preseason, with a first time OC, and an O-line shake-up. Then there was the the loss of Jamaal Charles, whom the offense was designed around.

    Not that the offense ever really got it together while he was there, but it is the fact that he was dealing with it all when it was fresh.

    Orton, while having to come into the situation late in the year in not an advantage in itself, did benefit by playing with an offense that had been dealing with those issues for most of the year, worked out some of the kinks, and the O-line had most of a season of working together.

    I think Kyle performed better.

    I am just unsure of how much of that was Kyle, and how much was due to an O-line with more time together, a leash being removed from the play-calling, and a situation where Tyler Palko made things look even worse.

    I think both guys have a very high ceiling. And I will be happy to see either at QB in 2012, but even happier if we force them both into a direct competition for it.
    ...Absolutely THIS!


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    Quote Originally Posted by chief31 View Post
    The biggest difference between the two situation, as Chiefs in 2011, is the timing of their experiences.

    Cassel had his time coming of the shortened preseason, with a first time OC, and an O-line shake-up. Then there was the the loss of Jamaal Charles, whom the offense was designed around.

    Not that the offense ever really got it together while he was there, but it is the fact that he was dealing with it all when it was fresh.

    Orton, while having to come into the situation late in the year in not an advantage in itself, did benefit by playing with an offense that had been dealing with those issues for most of the year, worked out some of the kinks, and the O-line had most of a season of working together.

    I think Kyle performed better.

    I am just unsure of how much of that was Kyle, and how much was due to an O-line with more time together, a leash being removed from the play-calling, and a situation where Tyler Palko made things look even worse.

    I think both guys have a very high ceiling. And I will be happy to see either at QB in 2012, but even happier if we force them both into a direct competition for it.
    Orton may not want to deal with a competition. He's been through two QB controversies already. He wants to start.
    I still say that Orton is the better play action QB. They are fairly equal in all stats.
    I'm all for the competition, just do not think Orton is.


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    Quote Originally Posted by AkChief49 View Post
    Orton may not want to deal with a competition. He's been through two QB controversies already. He wants to start.
    I still say that Orton is the better play action QB. They are fairly equal in all stats.
    I'm all for the competition, just do not think Orton is.
    This bugs the heck out of me. Not the comment, which I agree with, but the perception that Orton doesn't want to compete. If that really is his attitude then I say, "Good riddance." I don't want a QB who thinks he should just be handed the starting job and isn't willing to show he deserves it. I want a guy that is willing to sign with Green Bay or New England and says, "Yeah. That guy's good, but I can do better!"

    On the other hand, I do understand when he says, "this is Cassel's team." While I do think that is, to a large extent, just hem showing respect as the newcomer, and being humble and politically correct, I can see that he may recognize that it will be difficult for the Chiefs to keep them both.

    I can completely understand him wanting to be the starter and possibly taking a job where that is more likely. The thing is, he might not be in a position to make that happen.

    The reality of the situation is that Orton lost his starting job to Grossman, was traded for Cutler and then lost it again to Tebow. Now if the Chiefs keep Cassel over him, that will be the 4th QB he has lost out to. He may have to earn the starting job regardless of where he signs. I think teams that desperately need a QB are more likely to go after a good rookie in the draft than overpay Orton who has shown ability, but hasn't shown that he can keep the starting job.

    I think some here are over valuing Orton because he came in here and beat the packers right away. Given the way he has played the last 3 games, I think very highly of him as well, but I'm not sure other teams will feel the same way.

    I also think that if Orton has to compete for the starting spot, his best chance of winning that competition is right here in KC. I think he has the talent to beat out Cassel, and the self confidence to believe he can do it.

    If the Chiefs don't resign Kyle, I will be very disappointed, but I will understand and Matt will have my full support. But I really want to see Kyle iin a Cheifs uniform next summer.
    Last edited by TopekaRoy; 01-03-2012 at 12:24 AM.
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    Looks like we got a couple "average" qb's to fight it out in training camp next year. Orton will probably win the position - if he stays.
    SHUT IT

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    It was pretty obvious yesterday. 1st quarter we came out with playcalling that kept the broncos on their heels and orton was able to just march down the field... After that the play calling went back to being predictable and we weren't able to do jack after that.
    It went to the same playcalling that cassel was dealt with all year. We have GOT to get away from running vanilla predictable offenses and cassel will shine, just like he did against the niners, seahawks, titans last year.

    After ortons comments i don't think he will come back i think he will request a trade. Which is fine with me i think cassel is a better QB for this team and atleast we can now get something for orton.

    ortons postgame comments:
    "I don't know," Orton said when asked whether he thought he would return next season. "I'm going to step away. I know they've got a great quarterback in Matt Cassel. Matt's a good friend, he's a great teammate, and he's a great quarterback. As I look at it, it's his team. We'll see what happens."

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    Quote Originally Posted by fairladyZ View Post
    After ortons comments i don't think he will come back i think he will request a trade. Which is fine with me i think cassel is a better QB for this team and atleast we can now get something for orton."
    Orton does not have to ask for a trade he is a free agent now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fairladyZ View Post
    It was pretty obvious yesterday. 1st quarter we came out with playcalling that kept the broncos on their heels and orton was able to just march down the field... After that the play calling went back to being predictable and we weren't able to do jack after that.
    It went to the same playcalling that cassel was dealt with all year. We have GOT to get away from running vanilla predictable offenses and cassel will shine, just like he did against the niners, seahawks, titans last year.

    After ortons comments i don't think he will come back i think he will request a trade. Which is fine with me i think cassel is a better QB for this team and atleast we can now get something for orton.

    ortons postgame comments:
    "I don't know," Orton said when asked whether he thought he would return next season. "I'm going to step away. I know they've got a great quarterback in Matt Cassel. Matt's a good friend, he's a great teammate, and he's a great quarterback. As I look at it, it's his team. We'll see what happens."
    Orton's contract is up in March. I think if Orton is offered a job as a starter elsewhere anytime soon he may take it. It may be hard to pass up. He would not be offered a starting spot here. He would have to battle it out with Cassel. As far as a trade, we can't trade him.

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