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Thread: michael brockers

  1. #1
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    i would take him over poe anyday



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    Quote Originally Posted by pojote View Post
    Extracted from play by play stats in NFL.COM http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/201111...yze=playbyplay:

    (8:48) 27-K.Moreno right end pushed ob at KC 6 for 24 yards (47-J.McGraw).
    (2:42) (Shotgun) 27-K.Moreno right end to DEN 36 for 22 yards (56-D.Johnson)
    (1:28) (Shotgun) 19-E.Royal left end to KC 48 for 11 yards (48-R.Langford)
    (1:37) (Shotgun) 15-T.Tebow right end pushed ob at DEN 36 for 19 yards (24-B.Flowers).

    Those where just big plays, 76 yards. 244 total rushing yards - those 76 = 168 yards. 168 yards / 51 plays = 3.3 ypc

    3.3 YPC I think it's fine for a 3-4 DL.
    Not to mention the common thing about all of those plays is that they were outside runs.
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    With all that said, if we were to take a 3-4 DE in the first round, I'd prefer Fletcher Cox out of Mississippi State.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pojote View Post
    Extracted from play by play stats in NFL.COM NFL Game Center: Denver Broncos at Kansas City Chiefs - 2011 Week 10:

    (8:48) 27-K.Moreno right end pushed ob at KC 6 for 24 yards (47-J.McGraw).
    (2:42) (Shotgun) 27-K.Moreno right end to DEN 36 for 22 yards (56-D.Johnson)
    (1:28) (Shotgun) 19-E.Royal left end to KC 48 for 11 yards (48-R.Langford)
    (1:37) (Shotgun) 15-T.Tebow right end pushed ob at DEN 36 for 19 yards (24-B.Flowers).

    Those where just big plays, 76 yards. 244 total rushing yards - those 76 = 168 yards. 168 yards / 51 plays = 3.3 ypc

    3.3 YPC I think it's fine for a 3-4 DL.
    So you are intentionally and knowingly kicking out the worste 4 plays to pad a stat. Those four plays happened and can't be removed from the stats. That logic is refusing reality.


    It also does not support the fact that maybe the runs to the ends are more effective because the Ends are getting sealed off, allowing a blocker to kick out the line backer for a big gain.

    Again you guys can try to support Jackson and Dorsey with Stats all you want. But watching them play, and knowing our weaknesses on the defense. I know what I see, and Jackson does make some great plays, but is stood up and pushed back way to freaking easy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seek View Post
    So you are intentionally and knowingly kicking out the worste 4 plays to pad a stat. Those four plays happened and can't be removed from the stats. That logic is refusing reality.


    It also does not support the fact that maybe the runs to the ends are more effective because the Ends are getting sealed off, allowing a blocker to kick out the line backer for a big gain.

    Again you guys can try to support Jackson and Dorsey with Stats all you want. But watching them play, and knowing our weaknesses on the defense. I know what I see, and Jackson does make some great plays, but is stood up and pushed back way to freaking easy.
    When I see an outside run being stopped by Jackson or Dorsey I will instantly send them to Canton. Just imagine, a 3-4 DE being blocked in the line, getting away from his blocker and running laterally faster than a RB to tackle him. Wow!!! just wow!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seek View Post
    So you are intentionally and knowingly kicking out the worste 4 plays to pad a stat. Those four plays happened and can't be removed from the stats. That logic is refusing reality.


    It also does not support the fact that maybe the runs to the ends are more effective because the Ends are getting sealed off, allowing a blocker to kick out the line backer for a big gain.

    Again you guys can try to support Jackson and Dorsey with Stats all you want. But watching them play, and knowing our weaknesses on the defense. I know what I see, and Jackson does make some great plays, but is stood up and pushed back way to freaking easy.
    It would depend on the scheme called for that play but I'd think (correct me if I'm wrong) that the OLB have contain responsibility. So even if the DE is getting blocked in on by the TE the play going for 2 yards or 200 is the OLB's problem. So the defensive line shouldn't be responsible for anything but what goes on in between the lines.

    At this point unless someone is going to go back and watch the game again and say Jackson, Gregg and Dorsey's responsibility and then add the yards up it's impossible to say who was really at fault.

    You had in another thread earlier that fine what would have happened if Manning had been there instead of Tebow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seek View Post
    My concern goes beyong The Denver Game. Just as our defensive line was destroyed against oakland in 2010 with Berry in there. It was handled by Baltimore in the play off game and was handled by Denver. Now, that is two divisional teams handling our defensive line.

    So why I am an arguing about a rushing defense when it allows 10 points. You already answered it for me. Tebow... What would that team have done with Oh I don't know, Peyton Manning as their Qb instead of Tebow. The best thing going for us right now, is their lack of Receivers.
    At that point since you're so good about pointing out our ranking in rushing offense I'll point out our passing defense...6th. We were 6th in the NFL against the pass. So my guess would have been that Denver would have passed more, rushed less and had more equal amounts of rushing and passing. At that point we probably wouldn't be talking about Dorsey or Jackson at this point and you'd be complaining about the lack of pass rush.

    The bottom line is that both Dorsey and Jackson are improving. We all want our defense to play lights out but they aren't there yet. I'm not willing to say it's players but I'm not willing to rule that possibility out yet. But to assign the ranking of rushing defense on the front three can't be done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seek View Post
    That right is not 100% their fault, but their sole JOB is to take up blockers and let the rest of the team do the work, and as stated many times before, they were getting pushed back and by the time anyone made contact, and most of the time that contact ended in an immediate tackle and appeared to be a good stop, was a 4 yard gain because the guys up front were getting beat. I won't argue that Belcher makes wrong reads some times, or gets blocked easily. I won't argue that Eric Berry was a huge missing problem, and even then, McGraw getting hurt so often didn't help.

    I know for a 100% fact that stats is a measurable tool to find a result based on certain variables. You can change all the variables you want to make the stats tailored to look good or look bad depending on what result you want. So while you can provide me stats on their individual performances, It does not support why this team was ranked 26th against the run. They are not 100% the cause of this, but they are a HUGE foundation for this problem and while I like Dorsey. I really don't want another LSU D lineman, because I feel that maybe they are more of a system/talented team than individually top talent players. I see Jackson blocked way to easy, and while he may have some stats showing that he is getting better, he is a complete bust of a 4th round pick and gets stood up so freaking easy.
    First off, those are two players out of 11 - to say they are a HUGE part of a "failing" KC rush defense makes your argument laughable.

    Secondly, are you watching the correct games / players ( #72 & #94 )? It sounds inflamatory but I mean it quite sincerely, since nothing you stated actually exists. Dorsey does not routinely "get stood up and driven back for 4 yards", nor does TJ - its just not happening, per watching the actual games. Those claims are completely false and have no bearing in reality whatsoever. You can continue to make those claims till you are blue in the face, but it will not make it real. I can only take it that you have something personal against these players or you're going off of second hand info that is incorrect, because its simply not true.

    As for the example someone showed, I believe your response shows your bias. The poster clearly shows that the big runs were all to the outside - where your OLBers and CBs, even your flowing ILBs & Ss - should have made the play... not your interior defensive linemen. Yet you want to add those to your 'evidence' pool against GD & TJ, even though they clearly have nothing to do with it. That my friend, is called a bias, and you 'has it'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pojote View Post
    When I see an outside run being stopped by Jackson or Dorsey I will instantly send them to Canton. Just imagine, a 3-4 DE being blocked in the line, getting away from his blocker and running laterally faster than a RB to tackle him. Wow!!! just wow!!!
    No, I am not saying they should make the play. What I am saying is that it is their job to take up a blocker so that the line backers are free to make make those plays. They are not doing that. Instead they are blocking their line backers from making the play by getting pushed back and I am not saying it is all their fault. Belcher loves getting blocked by his team or taking himself out of the play. And yes the injury to Berry was huge, even more so when McGraw was hurt.

    Some of the best defensive stops this year, was when they did do their job and DJ blew up the play for either no gain or a loss. They are not complete and total losers. They do make good plays, but they are very inconsistent and Jackson more times than not is easily blocked and stood straight up.

    Look, you guys can look up all the stats you want to and try to support this, but my opinion of watching them live every home game since they were drafted is still fresh in my mind. I am very sour about the performances against Oakland and Baltimore last year, as well as the Bills and Donkies games this year. Our offensive line and defensive line looked like high schoolers in all four of those games and I don't care what stats you guys throw out there from an entire season. In those games, against better lines. They were not acceptable. Obviously, you guys are so dead set on supporting average play and are removing Bad plays from Stats to support it. Fine, do what you want, but I am sleeping much better knowing I can watch it from TV every game going forward.

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    i thought i read were TJ is due 14 mil next year. If thats true he`s not playing so far at a 14 mil level.
    i can remember what a chief super bowl team looks like! ......

  10. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfpack View Post
    i thought i read were TJ is due 14 mil next year. If thats true he`s not playing so far at a 14 mil level.
    That's true, he is going to restructure his contract or getting close to be cut, not that he's playing poorly, just not worth that amount of money.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanathol View Post
    First off, those are two players out of 11 - to say they are a HUGE part of a "failing" KC rush defense makes your argument laughable.

    Secondly, are you watching the correct games / players ( #72 & #94 )? It sounds inflamatory but I mean it quite sincerely, since nothing you stated actually exists. Dorsey does not routinely "get stood up and driven back for 4 yards", nor does TJ - its just not happening, per watching the actual games. Those claims are completely false and have no bearing in reality whatsoever. You can continue to make those claims till you are blue in the face, but it will not make it real. I can only take it that you have something personal against these players or you're going off of second hand info that is incorrect, because its simply not true.

    As for the example someone showed, I believe your response shows your bias. The poster clearly shows that the big runs were all to the outside - where your OLBers and CBs, even your flowing ILBs & Ss - should have made the play... not your interior defensive linemen. Yet you want to add those to your 'evidence' pool against GD & TJ, even though they clearly have nothing to do with it. That my friend, is called a bias, and you 'has it'.
    Yes, I am biased against number 94. I wasn't that way but he has earned it based on my own opinion of watching him play and when he makes a good play, I do point it out, because I am shocked it happened.

    I am also biased to DJ who has proven himself to be a pro-bowler, and while you all say it is his fault for not making the plays on the ouside, I have that biased opinion of seeing him make that play more times than none, and when he does not, I see him getting blocked or taken out of the play by someone else.

    That being said, I was very furious by the amount of holds that Denver got away with specifically by Beadles holding Dorsey or DJ. Every freaking play. Howeve, that frustration just turned to the defense for not being able to stop them from running regardless of a guy Cheating every play.

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