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Thread: michael brockers

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    i would take him over poe anyday



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    as i understand it you don't think CBS Sports ranking is valid, of course bleacher report is written by just fans but you put all your faith in the expert opinion of Khaled Elsayed ??????
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefnut View Post
    it is theses specific stats that rated dorsey very favorable, 20th out of over 100 DL is very good but i guess that doesn't count??
    No, it doesn't. He got a sack, so that's good I guess if he's on your fantasy team.

    Those stat's don't tell you how often a player was double teamed, what percentage of plays were ran in his direction, or if he was effective at acting as a 'blocker' to allow a linebacker to get through the line for a sack or a tackle for a loss. They don't tell you how many times a lineman 'pressured' a QB into making a bad throw or throwing the ball out of bounds. They don't tell you how many times a lineman 'jammed' a tight end or took a RB out of a play so they couldn't catch a pass.

    I know he plays in a 4-3 scheme, but Julius Peppers is a great DE even when he doesn't get a lot of stats, because he is almost always double teamed, allowing teammates to get into the backfield, he is hard to throw over because of his size and vertical leap, and offenses are often forced to run plays to the opposite side of the field, limiting their options. None of those things show up in CBS's 'rankings.'

    Tyson Jackson is good at what he does even though it doesn't produce big fantasy stat numbers, and Dorsey is good at what he does regardless of the fact that it gives him a decent ranking. Those numbers don't tell the whole story and are largely irrelevant to the discussion about how good they are. You have to actually watch the games to see if they are effective at doing what they are supposed to be doing or not.

    You can't tell just by looking at 'fantasy' stats.
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    Roy i actually was responding to the posts of Xanathol & Pojote. I don't think our D line has done a good job although i will concede that dorsey has much improved and has reached the rank of average except jackson still is sub standard and our NT has been mediocre between gregg and before him edwards. a stellar NT would make a huge difference, but poe is not the guy, not yet anyway. our biggest problem was lack of offense and Decastro would complete the overhaul and make this an offense that can pound on the ground or cut you up thru the air. he would be my choice
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefnut View Post
    Roy i actually was responding to the posts of Xanathol & Pojote. I don't think our D line has done a good job although i will concede that dorsey has much improved and has reached the rank of average except jackson still is sub standard and our NT has been mediocre between gregg and before him edwards. a stellar NT would make a huge difference, but poe is not the guy, not yet anyway. our biggest problem was lack of offense and Decastro would complete the overhaul and make this an offense that can pound on the ground or cut you up thru the air. he would be my choice
    I see. I thought you were responding to my earlier post which was critical of CBS's so-called rankings. I just thought I would throw my opinion into the mix.

    At any rate, I think Dorsey and Jackson are better than you give them credit for. However, I agree with everything you said above from "... our NT has been mediocre ..." on forward.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefnut View Post
    as i understand it you don't think CBS Sports ranking is valid, of course bleacher report is written by just fans but you put all your faith in the expert opinion of Khaled Elsayed ??????
    How is this a response to my posts? I linked to NFL.com's numbers and quite honestly, don't care what any journalists anywhere have as their 'ranking list' ( just check the QB thread one for a good laugh throughout ). My argument comes from facts and game tape. Facts show TJ & GD have some of the highest tackle totals for DL in the entire NFL. Facts are, Dorsey is double teamed as much as Wilt Chamberlain ( be it on the court or in the bedroom... ). Would a pass rush be nice? If the coaches wanted one from them, sure. Dorsey literally had to change his game from a penetrating 4-3 DT out of college to a 'catch a block' 2-gapper and you can see it every snap - not using his quick first step but instead slow, holding ground, feet keeping a good base, shuffling left & right instead of moving upfield, using his hands to hold a lineman at length instead of punching, swimming, ripping. As Romeo himself has stated, he is doing EXACTLY what he is told to do.

    Let's flip this argument around - what base 3-4 DE do you think is performing better than either of these two?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanathol View Post
    Because those two players are 100% responsible for KC's rush defense ranking...
    That right is not 100% their fault, but their sole JOB is to take up blockers and let the rest of the team do the work, and as stated many times before, they were getting pushed back and by the time anyone made contact, and most of the time that contact ended in an immediate tackle and appeared to be a good stop, was a 4 yard gain because the guys up front were getting beat. I won't argue that Belcher makes wrong reads some times, or gets blocked easily. I won't argue that Eric Berry was a huge missing problem, and even then, McGraw getting hurt so often didn't help.

    I know for a 100% fact that stats is a measurable tool to find a result based on certain variables. You can change all the variables you want to make the stats tailored to look good or look bad depending on what result you want. So while you can provide me stats on their individual performances, It does not support why this team was ranked 26th against the run. They are not 100% the cause of this, but they are a HUGE foundation for this problem and while I like Dorsey. I really don't want another LSU D lineman, because I feel that maybe they are more of a system/talented team than individually top talent players. I see Jackson blocked way to easy, and while he may have some stats showing that he is getting better, he is a complete bust of a 4th round pick and gets stood up so freaking easy.

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    Extracted from play by play stats in NFL.COM http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/201111...yze=playbyplay:

    (8:48) 27-K.Moreno right end pushed ob at KC 6 for 24 yards (47-J.McGraw).
    (2:42) (Shotgun) 27-K.Moreno right end to DEN 36 for 22 yards (56-D.Johnson)
    (1:28) (Shotgun) 19-E.Royal left end to KC 48 for 11 yards (48-R.Langford)
    (1:37) (Shotgun) 15-T.Tebow right end pushed ob at DEN 36 for 19 yards (24-B.Flowers).

    Those where just big plays, 76 yards. 244 total rushing yards - those 76 = 168 yards. 168 yards / 51 plays = 3.3 ypc

    3.3 YPC I think it's fine for a 3-4 DL.
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    of the 13 nfl teams using a 3-4 defense, which is traditionaly better against the run than the 4-3 only indy is ranked lower against the run the KC so based on that i would guess a number of the DE's and NT's are better that ours.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seek View Post
    26th rankes defense against the run. That is not Factual evidence they were doing a tremendous job.
    This statistic is very misleading. For one, the Chiefs were run on the 4th most times in the league. Only the Colts, Rams, and Browns had more rush attempts against them. All of these teams have one thing in common: Anemic offenses. A lot of this can be blamed on the offense having a lot of 3 and outs, not scoring any points, and the team as a result being behind in the score.

    If you look to a more telling stat, yards per carry, the Chiefs ranked 14th in the league by allowing 4.2 yards per carry. The Falcons also allowed 4.2 yards per carry to opposing running backs, but gave up 460 less yards on the year because teams ran the ball against them 136 times fewer than the Chiefs. This is no surprise, because they often had the lead.

    The point is, the rush defense is slightly above average in this league, but the "rushing yards" stats are very inflated because of the offense's incompetency. With that said, you can get a better idea of why Jackson and Dorsey have been solid 3-4 DE's, and the ProFootballFocus article posted earlier goes on to highlight this as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefnut View Post
    of the 13 nfl teams using a 3-4 defense, which is traditionaly better against the run than the 4-3 only indy is ranked lower against the run the KC so based on that i would guess a number of the DE's and NT's are better that ours.
    Indy doesn't even run a 3-4.
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