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Thread: Football Gameplan's 2012 Draft Grades Video - Chiefs

  1. #1
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    Default Football Gameplan's 2012 Draft Grades Video - Chiefs


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    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYzu-2Ykae0"]Chiefs Draft Grades Video[/ame]

    Good evening KC fans!! Here's my Draft Grades video for you guys!

    Enjoy!

    Em

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmDiggy View Post
    THIS! However, I have to respectfully disagree with the NTs wouldn't impact a Spread attack.. the way you defeat the spread is by dominating the center.. That's where my issue with Poe comes from. He should've been a lot more disruptive than he was
    Spread offenses are based in shotgun formations and 2 to 3 second routes... how the hell can you expect a NT to get through an NCAA caliber Center and then run 8-10 yards to get to the QB in that amount of time? Expecting a 350lb NT to make that kind of disruption play in and play out isn't being fair to that position. The whole point of the spread is to take the DL and pass rush out of the equation while also not needing much of a rushing attack because the short passes are used instead.

    I realize you needed a player "not to like" for your podcast, but this bombardment on Poe needs to be called out for the short-sighted, poor player evaluation that has been attached to Poe since the draft. Poe, like Jackson and Dorsey is going to do EXACTLY what Crennel's 3-4 expects of him. Just like Tyson Jackson isn't a pass-rushing DE, Poe isn't going to be N. Suh. He's going to do exactly what a NT is suppose to do... clog the run lanes, attack with an unrelenting motor, and keep the OL off his LBs, with the occasional QB pressure or sack. To expect anything more from a NT is not fair to the position.

    It's not like the guy was taken in the top 5. There weren't a whole bunch of guys available for the Chiefs to take instead of Poe that would have benefitted this team more, you don't know what type of trade offers were available to the Chiefs to trade down, and being that they got GREAT OL value in the 2nd and 3rd rounds, you can't argue that they should've taken DeCastro who would've represented lesser value at #11 than Poe who fills a hole the Chiefs haven't addressed since implementing the 3-4 when Pioli was hired.

    As I've said before, the difference between DeCastro (who was the only other player the Chiefs could have truly considered at #11) and Allen is MUCH less than the difference between Poe and the second best NT in that draft class. I'm tired of hearing how Poe was a "poor pick" without the author suggesting who they thought the Chiefs SHOULD have picked instead. You can't say a trade up or down would have been better because you don't know what the terms of those trades would have been. You can't say DeCastro because we know the Chiefs got GREAT value in Allen in the 2nd.

    So, since you say Poe wasn't a good pick for the Chiefs, please, tell us ignorant Chiefs fans and front office personnel who would have impacted the franchise better than Poe at pick #11? A pass-rushing DE would've been a luxury pick with Houston and Hali on the team. Kuechly would've been nice but he wasn't available and Poe meant more than any other ILB at #11. WR would've been a luxury pick. No QB at #11 was worth the pick. They don't need RB. They don't need TE. No CBs or Safeties were available (which would've been luxury picks as well)... and despite what some people think, the Chiefs boast some really good DEs... so tell us... who SHOULD the Chiefs have picked?

    They had a perennial hole at NT and got the best NT prospect this draft had to offer. If Poe had gone later to a Pittsburgh or Green Bay team, the "draft experts" would have LOVED this guy for them and would be singing the praises of their respective front offices for "landing a guy who was projected to go in the middle of round 1." Believe me... I'm not a Chiefs "homer." I've been on the fence about Pioli and this front office since the moment he hired Todd Haley. But he has done some GREAT things for this franchise since he fired Haley. Promoting Crennel, his 2012 FA class and this draft are all things Pioli has done to make me, personally feel better about him as the GM of this franchise. There's only so long you can ignore the cornerstone position of the 3-4 defense.

    If anything, this franchise deserves accolades for FINALLY pulling the trigger on one of the most talented NTs to come out in the draft in quite a while. Poe is explosive and quick off the snap. He's incredibly strong and is about to get the benefit of being coached by one of the best DL coaches in the history of the NFL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by texaschief View Post
    Spread offenses are based in shotgun formations and 2 to 3 second routes... how the hell can you expect a NT to get through an NCAA caliber Center and then run 8-10 yards to get to the QB in that amount of time? Expecting a 350lb NT to make that kind of disruption play in and play out isn't being fair to that position. The whole point of the spread is to take the DL and pass rush out of the equation while also not needing much of a rushing attack because the short passes are used instead.

    I realize you needed a player "not to like" for your podcast, but this bombardment on Poe needs to be called out for the short-sighted, poor player evaluation that has been attached to Poe since the draft. Poe, like Jackson and Dorsey is going to do EXACTLY what Crennel's 3-4 expects of him. Just like Tyson Jackson isn't a pass-rushing DE, Poe isn't going to be N. Suh. He's going to do exactly what a NT is suppose to do... clog the run lanes, attack with an unrelenting motor, and keep the OL off his LBs, with the occasional QB pressure or sack. To expect anything more from a NT is not fair to the position.

    It's not like the guy was taken in the top 5. There weren't a whole bunch of guys available for the Chiefs to take instead of Poe that would have benefitted this team more, you don't know what type of trade offers were available to the Chiefs to trade down, and being that they got GREAT OL value in the 2nd and 3rd rounds, you can't argue that they should've taken DeCastro who would've represented lesser value at #11 than Poe who fills a hole the Chiefs haven't addressed since implementing the 3-4 when Pioli was hired.

    As I've said before, the difference between DeCastro (who was the only other player the Chiefs could have truly considered at #11) and Allen is MUCH less than the difference between Poe and the second best NT in that draft class. I'm tired of hearing how Poe was a "poor pick" without the author suggesting who they thought the Chiefs SHOULD have picked instead. You can't say a trade up or down would have been better because you don't know what the terms of those trades would have been. You can't say DeCastro because we know the Chiefs got GREAT value in Allen in the 2nd.

    So, since you say Poe wasn't a good pick for the Chiefs, please, tell us ignorant Chiefs fans and front office personnel who would have impacted the franchise better than Poe at pick #11? A pass-rushing DE would've been a luxury pick with Houston and Hali on the team. Kuechly would've been nice but he wasn't available and Poe meant more than any other ILB at #11. WR would've been a luxury pick. No QB at #11 was worth the pick. They don't need RB. They don't need TE. No CBs or Safeties were available (which would've been luxury picks as well)... and despite what some people think, the Chiefs boast some really good DEs... so tell us... who SHOULD the Chiefs have picked?

    They had a perennial hole at NT and got the best NT prospect this draft had to offer. If Poe had gone later to a Pittsburgh or Green Bay team, the "draft experts" would have LOVED this guy for them and would be singing the praises of their respective front offices for "landing a guy who was projected to go in the middle of round 1." Believe me... I'm not a Chiefs "homer." I've been on the fence about Pioli and this front office since the moment he hired Todd Haley. But he has done some GREAT things for this franchise since he fired Haley. Promoting Crennel, his 2012 FA class and this draft are all things Pioli has done to make me, personally feel better about him as the GM of this franchise. There's only so long you can ignore the cornerstone position of the 3-4 defense.

    If anything, this franchise deserves accolades for FINALLY pulling the trigger on one of the most talented NTs to come out in the draft in quite a while. Poe is explosive and quick off the snap. He's incredibly strong and is about to get the benefit of being coached by one of the best DL coaches in the history of the NFL.
    The best way to stop Spread attack is pressure from the interior.

    Poe did not dominate at all. 3rd round production not Top 11.

    DeCastro would have been an excellent pick...or even a CB.

    He may be Weight Room Strong...but it doesn't translate to the field. A guy 6'5 350lbs, while rushing the passer, shouldn't get stonewalled by a Running Back.. EVER

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmDiggy View Post
    The best way to stop Spread attack is pressure from the interior.

    Poe did not dominate at all. 3rd round production not Top 11.

    DeCastro would have been an excellent pick...or even a CB.

    He may be Weight Room Strong...but it doesn't translate to the field. A guy 6'5 350lbs, while rushing the passer, shouldn't get stonewalled by a Running Back.. EVER
    ANY OG at #11 overall is a joke. There were no CBs available at #11 worth the pick. The best way to stop the spread is to disrupt the timing with bump coverage and clogging the pass lanes with hands in the air from your DL. Again, the spread is designed to neutralize the DL... so, the DL isn't going to have hardly ANY impact on a successful spread offense. The ONLY way the DL is going to be capable of getting to the QB is if there is disruption in the timing of the WRs and the QB has to progress through to at least their 3rd or 4th option... and even then, it'll be a stretch for a DOMINANT NT.

    Memphis was a HORRIBLE team last year. The fact that they got ANY production and effort from a 350lb NT for 45+ plays EVERY GAME should just be a testament to Poe's character. They had ZERO talent in their defensive secondary, which did nothing to give Poe a chance or to make him think he had a legit chance to get to the QB. There were a ton of plays where he's reading the QB and trying to play the passing lanes to create disruption because his DBs weren't doing the job at the LOS. MOST of those plays were being made at a position OTHER THAN NT.

    If you're hoping to stop the spread purely by DL pressure, your defense is going to get eaten up. PERIOD.

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    I would have to agrer woth texas. The mizzou tigers have had loads of talent on the defensive line but overall their defense suffered becaise the db's werent getting it done. It seens that the dl has little.to do with stopping the spread where as secondary play does it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmDiggy View Post
    Thanks Homie!! I just knew you guys were gonna snatch up Decastro! But, If Poe can play up to his draft stock, then I'll be the 1st one to eat crow!
    You'll have to wait in line behind me buddy.


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    Quote Originally Posted by texaschief View Post
    ANY OG at #11 overall is a joke.....
    Is that so? HOF Guard John Hannah was taken #4 overall back in '73 by NE and they had 3 first round choices ( #11 was used for RB Sam Cunningham and #19 for WR Daryle Stingley ). Mike Munchak was taken at #8 by the Oilers back in '82.

    Since when did it become truth that the Guard position wasn't a premium position in any football league in America? And we are talking about a team that used the #5 overall pick in 2010 to draft a Safety, so if they can draft a Safety at #5 ( and I might add, one whose overall skills are inferior to another Tennessee Safety that was drafted by the Chiefs back in '92 at #20, and I might also add that the Chiefs got a Safety in round 5 in 2010 who probably is just as good as the one they took at #5, overall ), then #11 would not have been too high for an elite Guard prospect, if they had wanted to take DeCastro.

    With that said, though, I do agree that the Chiefs did take a better route by taking the best NT candidate available with exceptional physical ability ( which they won't get a lot of chances to do ), and then getting a Guard prospect with a world of potential in Jeff Allen in round 2 and another good O-Line candidate in round 3 in Stephenson. They had targeted these 3 players going into the draft and got them.

    Some people are still upset that the Chiefs didn't take DeCastro, but that's just hero-worship junk -- especially given the players that they did get with their top 3 picks. Anyone who's willing to cast aside the hero-worship junk & step back and look at things objectively should be able to easily see that the Chiefs covered their 2 biggest needs with the top 3 choices & they did a pretty good job in rounds 4 through 7, as well.
    Last edited by brdempsey69; 05-18-2012 at 01:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brdempsey69 View Post
    Is that so? HOF Guard John Hannah was taken #4 overall back in '73 by NE and they had 3 first round choices ( #11 was used for RB Sam Cunningham and #19 for WR Daryle Stingley ). Mike Munchak was taken at #8 by the Oilers back in '82.

    Since when did it become truth that the Guard position wasn't a premium position in any football league in America? And we are talking about a team that used the #5 overall pick in 2010 to draft a Safety, so if they can draft a Safety at #5 ( and I might add, one whose overall skills are inferior to another Tennessee Safety that was drafted by the Chiefs back in '92 at #20, and I might also add that the Chiefs got a Safety in round 5 in 2010 who probably is just as good as the one they took at #5, overall ), then #11 would not have been too high for an elite Guard prospect, if they had wanted to take DeCastro.

    With that said, though, I do agree that the Chiefs did take a better route by taking the best NT candidate available with exceptional physical ability ( which they won't get a lot of chances to do ), and then getting a Guard prospect with a world of potential in Jeff Allen in round 2 and another good O-Line candidate in round 3 in Stephenson. They had targeted these 3 players going into the draft and got them.

    Some people are still upset that the Chiefs didn't take DeCastro, but that's just hero-worship junk -- especially given the players that they did get with their top 3 picks. Anyone who's willing to cast aside the hero-worship junk & step back and look at things objectively should be able to easily see that the Chiefs covered their 2 biggest needs with the top 3 choices & they did a pretty good job in rounds 4 through 7, as well.
    It's about value. Yes, you can spend a high draft pick on an OG and get a hall of famer. The problem is that you can get comparable talent later in the draft from second tier OTs who won't be cornerstone LTs at the next level. DeCastro will be a good/great player in all likelihood, but it's not like the 2nd-7th rounds don't produce all-pro OGs on the regular. OG isn't a premium position in the draft because there are SO many more players who can play that position than ANY other position in football. You've got guys who played the spot in college AND ALSO guys like Allen who played OT in college who are projected to play OG in the NFL. There isn't any other position in the league that have SO many guys to choose from. It's not that the position isn't a premium on the field, it's just that it's not a premium position in the draft because a good/great NFL starter can be found in the middle rounds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by texaschief View Post
    It's about value. Yes, you can spend a high draft pick on an OG and get a hall of famer. The problem is that you can get comparable talent later in the draft from second tier OTs who won't be cornerstone LTs at the next level. DeCastro will be a good/great player in all likelihood, but it's not like the 2nd-7th rounds don't produce all-pro OGs on the regular. OG isn't a premium position in the draft because there are SO many more players who can play that position than ANY other position in football. You've got guys who played the spot in college AND ALSO guys like Allen who played OT in college who are projected to play OG in the NFL. There isn't any other position in the league that have SO many guys to choose from. It's not that the position isn't a premium on the field, it's just that it's not a premium position in the draft because a good/great NFL starter can be found in the middle rounds.
    DeCastro would have been a great value pick had they chosen him at #11. Talent-wise and production-wise, he was a top 10 player. And he was DOMINANT through his college career --that can't be said about the guys in rounds 2 through 7. If Poe had not been available for the Chiefs at #11, then there would not have been a better value pick for them than DeCastro. Any other players besides Poe and DeCastro would have been luxury picks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brdempsey69 View Post
    DeCastro would have been a great value pick had they chosen him at #11. Talent-wise and production-wise, he was a top 10 player. And he was DOMINANT through his college career --that can't be said about the guys in rounds 2 through 7. If Poe had not been available for the Chiefs at #11, then there would not have been a better value pick for them than DeCastro. Any other players besides Poe and DeCastro would have been luxury picks.
    I think my point is supported by what happened in the draft. If he was top 10 talent and represented top 10 value, why did he get drafted in the mid 20's? Answer: OGs early in the first round represent poor value. The fact that he was drafted in the first AT ALL is a testament to his ability. You hardly EVER see OGs taken in the first... for this VERY reason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by texaschief View Post
    I think my point is supported by what happened in the draft. If he was top 10 talent and represented top 10 value, why did he get drafted in the mid 20's? Answer: OGs early in the first round represent poor value. The fact that he was drafted in the first AT ALL is a testament to his ability. You hardly EVER see OGs taken in the first... for this VERY reason.
    Rubbish !! Teams were drafting for need, not BPA. That was why DeCastro fell to the mid 20's. No other reason.

    There's been Guards taken in the 1st, even recently. Mike Iupati at #17 in 2010, Mike Pouncey at #15 in 2011. Kevin Zeitler was taken by Cincy shortly after DeCastro was taken, Danny Watkins by Philly in 2011, Ben Grubbs by the Ravens in 2007, Davin Joseph by TB in 2006, Logan Mankins in 2005 -- the list goes on and on through the years.

    WTF are you talking about saying "teams rarely take Guards in round 1"? I've repeatedly seen Guards drafted in the 1st round many times over the span of 4 decades. Even Branden Albert was a Guard in college that the Chiefs took at #15 in 2008, with only the hope that he might be able to play Tackle.

    If a team has a need at Guard and the player is a potential stud at that position, teams will take a Guard in round 1, as I've just illustrated.
    Last edited by brdempsey69; 05-18-2012 at 07:22 PM.

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