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Thread: Just How Bad Cassel Really Is

  1. #1
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    Default Just How Bad Cassel Really Is


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    If you've found yourself to be a Cassel apologist, please read this. If you still are aft you read it, there is no hope for you:

    Chiefs The Declaration Of Independence, MO - The People vs. Matthew Gus Brennan Cassel - ChiefsPlanet
    Diehard Fan Living in Packer Territory

    Co-Founder: 2 Mugs Fantasy Football -- a site about and football!

  2. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by My Man Orton View Post
    When has that ever happened against a solid team? WHEN?! It's never happened.

    Fine forget about 09. What about 10 and 11? 2010 (67 rating) 5 TD and 6 Int against .500 or better. And that's when he had his "Great" year.

    2011 4 TD 8 INT against .500 teams or better. (63 rating)

    I like you MAtt, you have always treated me with respect and never cursed at me like Canada has, but don't you see why I might be skeptical about believing in this guy to take us to that next step where our franchise should be this year? With play like that? Remember we play teams like Baltimore in the playoffs not the Colts.
    My issues with your outlook are as follows

    1. You can't give Cassel credit when he does well. You just brush it off as oh he beat creampuffs. 09 no one was going to pile up wins with that team in 2010 they took a step forward yes they struggled against top teams they were still in the building process. Teams don't just go from as bad as the Chiefs were to beating everyone. You build your team up to where you become one of the top teams. 2010 was a step in that. 2011 was hurt before the season even started with Tony Moaki going down. You would say Tony G was a pretty good TE right. Tony M had a better rookie season then Tony G did. Theres reason to think that Tony M would have been a help to the offense. Then week 2 we lost the MVP of the offense early in the game. That also played a factor in why the offense wasn't at 100%. It wasn't just Cassel stuggling. There were a number of factors yes Cassel struggling was ONE of those but there were many many more which you don't like to mention.

    2. You at times seem to have two different standards. You praise the former management of this team and mention the 4 guys that brought in that helped this team. Of all those picks you can name 4 that are of help. 3 years of drafts you can name 4 out of 21 picks well more then that since they traded away a top talent to get more in 08. You give them credit after they had time to grow into being NFL players. Yet you won't give Pioli's picks time. And when they do play well you don't give them credit outside of Berry. Mccluster was REALLY good last year. Yet you don't give him credit based on this thought of yours that he won't get the ball. Before you declare that why not wait and see how they use him before you say he won't get the ball? There just seems to be people you like then there seems to be people you don't like and are overly harsh to. Like Cassel and Pioli.

    I don't mind the back and forths with you we seem to have alot. I like a good debate and as long as you are respectful I will be as well. You're not the first person I have had many debates with on here Chief31 and I have gone back and forth many times. I don't mind a different opinion you have your right to your opinion and I have my right to disagree with you. But when you IMO are being unfair to one of the Chiefs players I will defend that player every time. Right wrong of indifferent it's just how I am.

  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by My Man Orton View Post
    Well those QB's dont have the comfortable cushion that Cassel has as far as a running game, bottomline it's up to Rivers for example to make the throws and score. It's not that way with the Chiefs.

    Of course the TD's had something to do with our wins, the problem is when the run is contained and we can't use it to get in the red zone, Cassel is useless just like his rating and record indicate.

    Btw, who is a mod here? I'll change my name to My Man Hali but I don't know who to contact.



    The mods are,

    chief 31
    Chiefster
    tornadospotter
    rbedgood



    But I hear you have to go through Canada first, and the way to Canada is:

    1 8 round tickets from Canada to KCI,

    2 16 paid nights at a 5 star hotel,

    3 season tickets,

    4 personal pickup and transportation to and from the games(Canada is unable to walk after games due to too much beverage consumption,

    5 open tab at the games and any bar and restaurant in KC

    This sounds like a lot but truely is a very small price to pay, considering you will have a fresh start, and a new username at the best Chiefs forumn, and may I add, a friend for life in Canada.

    nothing personal, mmo. I do enjoy having you as a fellow chiefs fan.

  4. #33
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    Im not a fu*%kin mod yet?
    The only reason a beer sweats around Canada is because he's decided it will be the next beer he drinks.

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canada View Post
    Im not a fu*%kin mod yet?

    Don't let this guy push your buttons buddy. People with an opinion that matches their intellect get the attention they deserve. I quit paying any attention to MMO a real long time ago. The more attention he gets, the more posts his threads receive, the more people allow him/her to make them angry the more power they give him.

    Now, if he is in violation of the rules and I've missed it then report it and I'll be more then happy to appropriately deal with the guy, if not then you could put the guy on ignore and not let him biol your blood pressure.


  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by My Man Orton View Post
    Most of those qb's were the reason their offense scored, we are a rushing team, not a passing ( I can give you a reason or two why we aren't a passing team ;)

    Ok I will admit it as I have said before, he played well against a bad schedule. Ok? He played conservative in 2010 and took care of the football. He doesn't do that against good teams.

    Since you don't like to talk about 09, The past 2 seasons he has 10 td and 14 int vs .500 teams or better. Now stick him in against the colts and you will see those numbers improve. Its just too bad we cant play bum teams like the colts in the playoffs.
    Quote Originally Posted by My Man Orton View Post
    When has that ever happened against a solid team? WHEN?! It's never happened.

    Fine forget about 09. What about 10 and 11? 2010 (67 rating) 5 TD and 6 Int against .500 or better. And that's when he had his "Great" year.

    2011 4 TD 8 INT against .500 teams or better. (63 rating)

    I like you MAtt, you have always treated me with respect and never cursed at me like Canada has, but don't you see why I might be skeptical about believing in this guy to take us to that next step where our franchise should be this year? With play like that? Remember we play teams like Baltimore in the playoffs not the Colts.

    I'm curious but where are you getting the statistics in RED... Because it seems to me like you have two sets of statistics and they don't match. Going to ESPN and opening two windows, one of the standings of the regular season. The other with Chiefs schedule, results and who was playing. I think it's funny that you're including the Ravens stats because it makes your stats look better but if you include Seattle who made the playoffs AND beat the Saints...aka Drew Brees according to you the stats are below.

    Teams .500 or better with Cassel playing
    2010 TD's INT's
    Chargers(9-7) 1 0
    Colts(10-6) 0 0
    Jaguars(8-8) 2 0
    Raiders(8-8) 2 1
    Seattle(7-9) 4 0
    Raiders(8-8) 0 2
    Ravens(12-4) 0 3
    -----------------------------
    TD's INT's
    9 6

    2011 TD's INT's
    Detroit(10-6) 0 3
    Chargers(8-8) 2 1
    Raiders(8-8) 0 2
    Chargers(8-8) 1 2
    Denver(8-8) 1 0
    -----------------------------
    4 8

    Totals 13 14


    Quote Originally Posted by My Man Orton View Post
    I do buy into the 17-22 record as a starter, 3-13 record against playoff teams, 59 rating against teams .500 and over, 29th in yards per attempt in 2011.

    Why can't you?

    Canada when you talk about "It's a team game" I understand it. But for example, when Cassel goes 11-33 115 yards 0 td and 2 int in a loss to oakland what am I suppsoed to believe?

    When he has a bad career rating and 3-13 record against winning teams what am I supposed to think? Am I supposed to think Cassel has contributed well but we came up short? No I am inclined to believe the guy sucks and will not be part of the solution
    How about when we run the ball 38 times, Cassel goes 20 of 29 had 3 TD, zero interceptions for 201 yards and we still lose the game? That was the game against the Houston Texans when Flowers got called for a complete BS pass interference pentalty that all but gave the game to Houston. I suppose that doesn't count right? Because it's not a team game and Cassel lost it for us, he should have run out on the field and made the play.
    Last edited by OPLookn; 07-24-2012 at 11:49 AM.

  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chiefster View Post
    Don't let this guy push your buttons buddy. People with an opinion that matches their intellect get the attention they deserve. I quit paying any attention to MMO a real long time ago. The more attention he gets, the more posts his threads receive, the more people allow him/her to make them angry the more power they give him.

    Now, if he is in violation of the rules and I've missed it then report it and I'll be more then happy to appropriately deal with the guy, if not then you could put the guy on ignore and not let him biol your blood pressure.
    Im not mad at all! I get a good laugh at MMO!! I was just noticing that i still have not been promoted to moderator....
    The only reason a beer sweats around Canada is because he's decided it will be the next beer he drinks.

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by My Man Orton View Post
    I do buy into the 17-22 record as a starter, 3-13 record against playoff teams, 59 rating against teams .500 and over, 29th in yards per attempt in 2011.

    Why can't you?
    Because I understand that it is not all on him!!

    Canada when you talk about "It's a team game" I understand it. But for example, when Cassel goes 11-33 115 yards 0 td and 2 int in a loss to oakland what am I suppsoed to believe? you could "believe" that Bowe dropped a pass that hit him right in the hands that would have allowed the Chiefs to run out the clock. Instead, Oak got the ball back and went down the field to win. What part of that is Cassels fault?
    When he has a bad career rating and 3-13 record against winning teams what am I supposed to think? Am I supposed to think Cassel has contributed well but we came up short? No I am inclined to believe the guy sucks and will not be part of the solution
    How about he was playing on a 4 win team when he got here...not sh!t he lost to some good teams. Its funny though, in all the pages and posts on this thread, you still have not answered the question "Who is the upgrade we should have gotten?" See you can point at a problem and piss and moan about it all day, but you couldnt have done any better as a GM. We all know your opinion of Cassel, why keep posting when you add absolutely nothing new to the conversation?
    Last edited by Canada; 07-24-2012 at 11:53 AM.
    The only reason a beer sweats around Canada is because he's decided it will be the next beer he drinks.

  9. #38
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    Well there we have it. Pack it in for the year folks.

    Cassel's record with a 2-14 team is excellent.

    And his passing stats for a team that has been, for his entire tenure here, designed to be a running offense, are not bad either.

    But hey. Why let two excellent seasons, and two marred by mismanagement, massive injury losses, and a brand new rebuild be factored in when you can snivel and act like the Pro Bowl QB is the end of the world?

    This offense has yet to be under a single design.

    He has had four seasons as a starter. Two have been very good passing years, one was a rebuilding 2-14 team, and the other was marred by severe injuries, including his own.

    Our pass-blocking was poor before Cassel got here, and it has slowly gotten better. This year, they should grow into a full NFL offensive line. But they have not been that in Cassel's time as a starter.

    This was a group that saw to the end of the career of "iron man" Trent Green, repeated injuries to Brodie Croyle, and Damon Huard.

    They were poor then, and only since last year's draft has there even been legitimate attempts to do anything about it.

    And yet Cassel managed two seasons of survival with them, prior to eventually getting tagged with an injury, even to see Kyle Orton come in and receive an injury on his first play as a Chief.
    '
    This O-line has been poor. Larry Johnson went from 1900 yards in just over half a season, to 2 YPC, and booted out the door. Meanwhile, nobody else had any more success running with them. Even when Charles came in and made things happen (in spite of a terrible o-line) we have still never been able to run the ball any other way than to give it to the freak. All-world RB Thomas Jones even struggled to keep an average above pathetic.

    You can think whatever you want about the offense that Matt has been working with. But I am not buying any of it. I KNOW how our O-line has been. And I know how the offensive play-calling and design have been.

    Everybody just wants the Cadillac stats, despite the Ford Pinto frame and AMC Pacer motor.

    No matter how well you drive, you aren't going to win many races driving that jalopy.

    But Matt Cassel has won more than he should have with it.

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief31 View Post
    Well there we have it. Pack it in for the year folks.

    Cassel's record with a 2-14 team is excellent.

    And his passing stats for a team that has been, for his entire tenure here, designed to be a running offense, are not bad either.

    But hey. Why let two excellent seasons, and two marred by mismanagement, massive injury losses, and a brand new rebuild be factored in when you can snivel and act like the Pro Bowl QB is the end of the world?

    This offense has yet to be under a single design.

    He has had four seasons as a starter. Two have been very good passing years, one was a rebuilding 2-14 team, and the other was marred by severe injuries, including his own.

    Our pass-blocking was poor before Cassel got here, and it has slowly gotten better. This year, they should grow into a full NFL offensive line. But they have not been that in Cassel's time as a starter.

    This was a group that saw to the end of the career of "iron man" Trent Green, repeated injuries to Brodie Croyle, and Damon Huard.

    They were poor then, and only since last year's draft has there even been legitimate attempts to do anything about it.

    And yet Cassel managed two seasons of survival with them, prior to eventually getting tagged with an injury, even to see Kyle Orton come in and receive an injury on his first play as a Chief.
    '
    This O-line has been poor. Larry Johnson went from 1900 yards in just over half a season, to 2 YPC, and booted out the door. Meanwhile, nobody else had any more success running with them. Even when Charles came in and made things happen (in spite of a terrible o-line) we have still never been able to run the ball any other way than to give it to the freak. All-world RB Thomas Jones even struggled to keep an average above pathetic.

    You can think whatever you want about the offense that Matt has been working with. But I am not buying any of it. I KNOW how our O-line has been. And I know how the offensive play-calling and design have been.

    Everybody just wants the Cadillac stats, despite the Ford Pinto frame and AMC Pacer motor.

    No matter how well you drive, you aren't going to win many races driving that jalopy.

    But Matt Cassel has won more than he should have with it.
    Which makes me ask a question of you chief. You've been one that has said for years that we need to upgrade the lines. We did that with this years draft, brought in the best RT we've seen in years and have had a few years for rookies to get experience.

    With all that said do you feel like we have a legitimate line now? Or do we have to grow some more still?

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPLookn View Post
    Which makes me ask a question of you chief. You've been one that has said for years that we need to upgrade the lines. We did that with this years draft, brought in the best RT we've seen in years and have had a few years for rookies to get experience.

    With all that said do you feel like we have a legitimate line now? Or do we have to grow some more still?
    No. I think we will have by mid-season. But you know how o-line groups are... It takes a little time to get a feel for each other and to learn to play the system together.

    Personell wise, I am liking it. And I do expect to be able to run the ball on 3rd and 1 after we get used to working together.

    But it almost never looks like it should right away.

    When you see this team run up the gut on third and short and make it, three times in the same game... then wear starting to gel.

    At that point, the pass blocking should have come around as well.

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