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Thread: Not caring about this Franchise until it is completely PURGED!

  1. #1
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    Default Not caring about this Franchise until it is completely PURGED!


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    I know everyone active on this forum is a diehard Chiefs fan. Shoot, I'm a diehard and always will be one, but the decisions that continue to be made are absolutely ludicrous, and Clark Hunt and Pioli don't care one lick about what any of their financial providers think.

    I know, I know, don't go nuts on the success or failure of the Chiefs. Guess what? When I support a team, I expect their best effort to being successful, and even if they aren't, at least do whatever it takes to make the team stronger. The sole fact that this team continues to run Cassel on that field tells me that they could care less about the raining of boos after every interception.

    But wait! At least we have a team right? Well, let me tell everyone what most Chiefs fans are thinking right now. Why watch a team that is so awful? I could be riding my bike, or spending the day with the family, or go out to eat with friends. Why should I torture myself watching this team be a laughing stock and not even care? By the time Peyton Manning shows up, Arrowhead will be a complete ghost town.

    Some of you probably know that I'm a big Royals fan too. While they've been terrible too, the sad thing is that both franchises are being run far too similar. It's the Walmart way people. The owners don't care about spending money, the GMs think they can get a miracle season from some of the key cogs on the team and everything will just magically happen like it did in 2010 for the Chiefs. Guess what? Flukes happen and won't last forever, and by that, I mean Cassel. Of course, he's not the only problem, but he's the biggest one because he's the supposed leader of the team.

    I know this is a rant and I don't care. The only way action will be taken is if no one goes to Arrowhead, period. Clark Hunt needs to know that this will not be acceptable and the only way he'll know that is to continuously see an empty stadium. Local fans are even trying to buy a blimp every week running a banner that says "Fire Pioli, Bench Cassel". That's the magnitude of what fans are going through to end the stench of failure that Pioli and his regime have put this fanbase through.

    Alright, that's my piece, flame away.
    C:\Users\Master Sin\Desktop\thumb_pl_180492.jpg

  2. #21
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    I've always been a person of in depth forethought, as I believe forethought is by far more valuable than hindsight. Being forced to learn lessons the hard way from hindsight is often prevented by giving serious forethought to a decision prior to making it.

    Pioli has never been a person of impulsiveness, he's very articulate and thorough. Sure, he makes mistakes, just like every other human being does. No GM drafts or signs FA's without some busts. A player that fails with one team, often succeeds with another, vice versa.

    There simply are no guaranteed successes in the NFL, most every decision made is a gamble on all levels. It's a process of trial, error, & elimination to achieve success long term. Short term fixes aren't a solution, nor often do they end up even a temporary fix. Expecting championships from a newly built franchise/team in less than 5 yrs.. is not the norm in the NFL, it's the rare exception.

    "Official Chiefs Crowd / Historian/Correspondent / Ambassador"

    "The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall. The real glory is being knocked to your knees and then coming back. That's real glory. That's the essence of it." ~Vince Lombardi~

  3. #22
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    Consider this as well...Good GM's are NOT a dime a dozen in the NFL, they're scarce, & most are under contract long term. If a proven successful GM should be available to replace Pioli, he will be in great demand. As such, he can afford to be choosy with which team he decides to sign with. It's not always about money, it's also about evaluating his chances for success, consideration of obstacles he might face preventing success. His career future relies upon his success.

    Why would any good GM want to come to KC after what has occurred related to fan rebellion against Pioli, not just this season with the banner, but it began last season? Good GM's know the obstacles they face with rebuilding a franchise 'their way', including the obstacle of time it takes & a pre-existing negative fan base. Why put that unnecessary burden upon himself of dealing with an impatient negative fan base?

    When a fan base is negative, publicly rebelling, that is one more burden a GM must deal with on a professional level making his job more difficult, and it's a distraction from important goals.

    As Coach stated earlier, the appropriate & effective way to make a statement of discontent would be to simply not attend games, not buy merchandise, and not watch the games on TV either, so that ratings drop. Ratings = profit in advertising/sponsor dollars. The fans demanding other fans not attend games...are they willing not to watch the games on TV, make the same sacrifice to further their cause? I wonder, hahaha.

    Public rebellion only makes it worse long term for everyone involved, including the fans on both sides of the debate. Everyone will lose in the long term.

    There is a reason franchises like Philly & Oakland continue to fail. The good GM's & coaches prefer not to go there, unless no other option is available to them. KC's fan base has already been compared to that of Philly's & Oaklands in the National Media, related to when they booed Cassel at the MLB All Star Game. Most recently, on Sports Center when the negativity of the KC Chiefs fan base was being discussed following the loss to the Chargers...Sports Center commentators told KC fans viewers to try & "please stay classy", as they've historically been known to be.

    "Official Chiefs Crowd / Historian/Correspondent / Ambassador"

    "The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall. The real glory is being knocked to your knees and then coming back. That's real glory. That's the essence of it." ~Vince Lombardi~

  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Connie Jo View Post
    Evaluating talent overall, or QB talent solely?
    Try both.

    People's Exhibit A:

    2009 draft. Pioli uses the 3rd overall pick to draft a 4-3 D-Lineman to put into a 3-4 defense. Meanwhile, Thompson uses his top draft pick to take a true 3-4 NT that fits a 3-4 scheme and then trades up into the lower part of the 1st round to get an attack OLB to further enhance the 3-4 scheme. Try telling me that Jackson has panned out better than Raji or Matthews -- FORGET IT!!

    People's Exhibit B:

    Pioli's decision to draft 2 situational players in the 2nd round of the 2010 draft, instead of trying to land starters for both, the O-Line and Defensive Front 7 even though there were players available to help in both areas. By contrast, Thompson got his situational player with last selection of the 2nd round round in 2011, in Randall Cobb. Cobb is a far superior talent compared to Dex and Arenas and was regarded as by many as the best player on the board when the Packers took him. Dex and Arenas were NOT regarded as the BPA when the Chiefs selected them, they were major reaches.

    BTW, what is the likelihood that Thompson would have traded a 2nd round pick for Cassel & paid him the huge contract that Pioli did, if Thompson were the Chiefs GM at the time......NONE!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Connie Jo View Post

    Pioli has drafted players who have made a positive impact to our team; Succop, Lewis, Hudson, Houston, McCluster, Berry, Baldwin. Pro analysts project that Powe, Poe, Arenas & others, have the talent potential to be improvements to our young team once given an average fair amount of time to evolve in their positions. Heck, many pro analysts, including those at SI, have said the Chiefs have the most talented young roster in the NFL.
    I'll give him a pass on Houston, Baldwin, Powe, Hudson, & Lewis. Succop was just luck, not talent evaluation. The others that you mentioned are all reaches and have provided very little impact.

    You also forgot to mention that the best players on the Chiefs roster such as Hali, Flowers, Charles, DJ, Bowe, weren't drafted by Pioli and do you really believe that the guys Pioli drafted could take up the slack if Hali, Flowers, Charles, DJ, Bowe weren't on the roster? Fat chance.


    Quote Originally Posted by Connie Jo View Post
    To call Pioli a bust at GM based upon 3 1/2 seasons of not yet achieving playoff wins, is premature, in my humble minded opinion. One of those seasons we won the AFC West, another came within two blocked FG's of winning the division, regardless of obstacles including injuries. :)
    Sorry, but that ain't good enough. They weren't a playoff caliber team in either 2010 or 2011, as evidenced by the fact that they did not beat a single team with a winning record in 2010 and the 4 blowout losses to the AFC East in 2011. By contrast, Carl and Marty had the Chiefs competing with the big boys by 1990, their 2nd year. Pioli is in year 4 and this team has shown no progress as far as contending with the NFL's top teams.

    Quote Originally Posted by Connie Jo View Post

    One of those seasons also included a rare lockout, which is a worst nightmare for a GM attempting to build a young team. Again, pro analysts said young teams rebuilding like the KC Chiefs would be the most negatively affected by the lockout. Additionally, we lost Charles, Berry, & Moeaki the entire season. Yes, all teams have injuries to contend with, but when you consider the severity of 3 starters missing an entire season due to torn ACL's, that's not common in the NFL.
    That is no excuse. All other teams had to endure the lockout. The 2010 Packers and 2011 Giants had to deal with even more injury casualties & they still wound up winning Super Bowls. Charles loss was significant, Berry and Moeaki, not so much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Connie Jo View Post

    For sake of discussion, who would Clark replace Pioli with that would guarantee doing as good or better job, and immediately? Fans by a majority are impatient, they won't be willing to give any GM 3-5 years the average time it takes to make a transition prior to being playoff caliber.
    Where is it etched in stone that it takes 3-5 years to turn things around? Carl and Marty had this team in the postseason in 2 years and that 1990 squad was good enough to compete with the big boys in the NFL at that time. We are talking year 4 for Pioli and this team is getting blown out on a weekly basis in 2012. What the fans want to see is their team making progress towards becoming a contender each year & Potato Head hasn't gotten it done in his 4 years & mostly because his drafts have consisted of mostly reaches and misfires.

    Quote Originally Posted by Connie Jo View Post

    As I said, a new GM will likely change coaching staff, new system, and roster changes too. These are changes that take a team time to adapt to...it won't happen in one season, nor two.
    So what? There isn't anything to lose at this point after 4 years of very little progress since Pioli took over. Roster changes happen with every team, every year, and coaching changes have already been like a revolving door for the Chiefs under Pioli. So what would be the difference? Other than a new GM who knows how to draft properly & is willing to try to get a franchise QB on this team, which Pioli has done neither.


    Quote Originally Posted by Connie Jo View Post
    One season hit wonders aren't the answer any way.
    Never heard of such a thing regarding GM's & I can't even think of any remote examples. Pioli has had 4 years to right the ship & yet the ship only appears to be sunken. He seems more like a politician than a GM, anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Connie Jo View Post
    Long term contention is what Pioli has sought, and what most fans prefer, even if they don't think so now.
    From where? Gutting it out of a box of Cracker Jacks? He certainly hasn't done it in the draft or at the QB position & there's been a revolving door of OC's in the coaching ranks. It's come to head and taken its toll in 2012, and anybody looking at it with any sense of diplomacy can easily see that the Chiefs aren't going to have long term contention with Pioli as GM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Connie Jo View Post
    I guarantee after one winning season, fans will demand more.
    That's already happened with the easy schedule that they had in 2010, and luck regarding injuries that they had in 2010. Here we are 2 years later & what are fans demanding? Pioli be replaced, of course.

  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Three7s View Post
    I know we've had our disagreements in the past, but I think both of us can tell the difference between quality and poor management of a franchise. IMO, the Falcons are probably the one that should be knocking on the door to SBs for years. Pioli should be asking his buddy Dimitroff for lessons on how to be a GM of an NFL franchise.

    The reason my OP was about purging management is exactly what brdempsey mentioned. ACCOUNTABILITY! If fans don't how this team accountable, nothing will get done. Why is that? Because Pioli NEVER holds himself accountable, and that is obvious because Cassel is still the starting QB.

    It has to start somewhere.
    It's the other way around...Pioli is Dimitroff's adviser. I can back that fact up with documentation, too. :)

    "Official Chiefs Crowd / Historian/Correspondent / Ambassador"

    "The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall. The real glory is being knocked to your knees and then coming back. That's real glory. That's the essence of it." ~Vince Lombardi~

  6. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by brdempsey69 View Post
    Try both.

    People's Exhibit A:

    2009 draft. Pioli uses the 3rd overall pick to draft a 4-3 D-Lineman to put into a 3-4 defense. Meanwhile, Thompson uses his top draft pick to take a true 3-4 NT that fits a 3-4 scheme and then trades up into the lower part of the 1st round to get an attack OLB to further enhance the 3-4 scheme. Try telling me that Jackson has panned out better than Raji or Matthews -- FORGET IT!!

    People's Exhibit B:

    Pioli's decision to draft 2 situational players in the 2nd round of the 2010 draft, instead of trying to land starters for both, the O-Line and Defensive Front 7 even though there were players available to help in both areas. By contrast, Thompson got his situational player with last selection of the 2nd round round in 2011, in Randall Cobb. Cobb is a far superior talent compared to Dex and Arenas and was regarded as by many as the best player on the board when the Packers took him. Dex and Arenas were NOT regarded as the BPA when the Chiefs selected them, they were major reaches.

    BTW, what is the likelihood that Thompson would have traded a 2nd round pick for Cassel & paid him the huge contract that Pioli did, if Thompson were the Chiefs GM at the time......NONE!!!!



    I'll give him a pass on Houston, Baldwin, Powe, Hudson, & Lewis. Succop was just luck, not talent evaluation. The others that you mentioned are all reaches and have provided very little impact.

    You also forgot to mention that the best players on the Chiefs roster such as Hali, Flowers, Charles, DJ, Bowe, weren't drafted by Pioli and do you really believe that the guys Pioli drafted could take up the slack if Hali, Flowers, Charles, DJ, Bowe weren't on the roster? Fat chance.




    Sorry, but that ain't good enough. They weren't a playoff caliber team in either 2010 or 2011, as evidenced by the fact that they did not beat a single team with a winning record in 2010 and the 4 blowout losses to the AFC East in 2011. By contrast, Carl and Marty had the Chiefs competing with the big boys by 1990, their 2nd year. Pioli is in year 4 and this team has shown no progress as far as contending with the NFL's top teams.



    That is no excuse. All other teams had to endure the lockout. The 2010 Packers and 2011 Giants had to deal with even more injury casualties & they still wound up winning Super Bowls. Charles loss was significant, Berry and Moeaki, not so much.



    Where is it etched in stone that it takes 3-5 years to turn things around? Carl and Marty had this team in the postseason in 2 years and that 1990 squad was good enough to compete with the big boys in the NFL at that time. We are talking year 4 for Pioli and this team is getting blown out on a weekly basis in 2012. What the fans want to see is their team making progress towards becoming a contender each year & Potato Head hasn't gotten it done in his 4 years & mostly because his drafts have consisted of mostly reaches and misfires.



    So what? There isn't anything to lose at this point after 4 years of very little progress since Pioli took over. Roster changes happen with every team, every year, and coaching changes have already been like a revolving door for the Chiefs under Pioli. So what would be the difference? Other than a new GM who knows how to draft properly & is willing to try to get a franchise QB on this team, which Pioli has done neither.




    Never heard of such a thing regarding GM's & I can't even think of any remote examples. Pioli has had 4 years to right the ship & yet the ship only appears to be sunken. He seems more like a politician than a GM, anyway.



    From where? Gutting it out of a box of Cracker Jacks? He certainly hasn't done it in the draft or at the QB position & there's been a revolving door of OC's in the coaching ranks. It's come to head and taken its toll in 2012, and anybody looking at it with any sense of diplomacy can easily see that the Chiefs aren't going to have long term contention with Pioli as GM.



    That's already happened with the easy schedule that they had in 2010, and luck regarding injuries that they had in 2010. Here we are 2 years later & what are fans demanding? Pioli be replaced, of course.
    Brian (brdempsey69)...I can counter all points, but the time is late as I've just come across your points of debate. I need to get to bed, as I have to be up very early to be at Arrowhead tomorrow morning. I'll try to come back to this the first of the week, as I'm usually too exhausted once returning home from a game, hahaha. GO CHIEFS!!!! ;)

    "Official Chiefs Crowd / Historian/Correspondent / Ambassador"

    "The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall. The real glory is being knocked to your knees and then coming back. That's real glory. That's the essence of it." ~Vince Lombardi~

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    Pioli is the reason this team is built to squeak by when everything goes exactly right and nobody is injured. His steadfast commitment to the biggest problem on the team (Cassel, obviously) has sufficiently proven that he shouldn't be the guy making big decisions in KC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dl89 View Post
    Pioli is the reason this team is built to squeak by when everything goes exactly right and nobody is injured. His steadfast commitment to the biggest problem on the team (Cassel, obviously) has sufficiently proven that he shouldn't be the guy making big decisions in KC.

    Right on. Pioli said there would be QB competition, but as we've seen, that wasn't the case. This franchise is going no where with him calling the shots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Connie Jo View Post
    It's the other way around...Pioli is Dimitroff's adviser. I can back that fact up with documentation, too. :)
    Apparently, Dimitroff isn't listening to Pioli judging by what he's done in his drafts. Pioli couldn't advise one of his own wet dreams.

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