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Thread: 1-5...Where do we go from here?

  1. #1
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    Default 1-5...Where do we go from here?


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    It seems to me the Chiefs are in a spot where it's very unlikely that we'll be able to salvage the season. If that's the case, is it better to just let the season go, and go for a high ranking draft spot, or fight and scrap for every win we can get, and settle for where a 7-9, 8-8 or 6-10 draft position will put us?

    If we go through a coaching/management change (which after the Bucs game is very likely), I'd rather play our backups and rookies and see what we've got on the benches, and then focus on getting a franchise QB. It would suck having to approach a game with a mindset of losing, though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matthewschiefs View Post
    You're right he hasn't but you and other haters keep saying 2010 was because we played weak teams so you want to throw all of those wins out. Well those teams beat Peyton Manning and Drew Brees Twice. If those teams are so weak then why were they able to beat two qbs that are much better then Cassel? Or do you just want to ignore the 10-6 AFC west title because you have it out for Cassel and can't be fair to him?
    Yeah, the transitive property, while fundamental to Mathematics, unfortunately does not apply to sports.

    If you're not ready to give up on Cassel, that's fine. You're entitled to your opinion. How about instead of replace the many problems you claim we have, we just start with the QB. Bad QB play continues to be a constant, no matter the personnel around.

    Really the ultimate test will be seeing what Bowe does with a good QB when he leaves next year. I have no doubt he's one of the best WRs in the NFL.

    Goodnight man.
    Diehard Fan Living in Packer Territory

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  3. #32
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    We can still be the Seahawks from a couple years ago. Playing in the worst division where a losing record could get us in and could even get us a playoff win. lol

    Put in Stanzi and let's see where it takes us. How sad is it that this team is ONLY two games out of first?

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    Ok last post I promise, I just feel it illustrates my point.

    What do Buffalo, Cleveland, Jacksonville, Tennessee, Detroit (prior to Stafford), Tampa Bay, Wahington (prior to RGIII), Seattle, Arizona, St. Louis, an Kansas City have in common, other than they consistently are bottom feeders in this league?
    Last edited by Ryfo18; 10-16-2012 at 02:02 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryfo18 View Post
    Yeah, the transitive property, while fundamental to Mathematics, unfortunately does not apply to sports.

    If you're not ready to give up on Cassel, that's fine. You're entitled to your opinion. How about instead of replace the many problems you claim we have, we just start with the QB. Bad QB play continues to be a constant, no matter the personnel around.

    Really the ultimate test will be seeing what Bowe does with a good QB when he leaves next year. I have no doubt he's one of the best WRs in the NFL.

    Goodnight man.
    So let me ask If those teams that we beat in 2010 were so bad that we shouldn't give credit to Cassel for the 2010 season and just look at all the bad years then why were they able to beat Peyton Manning? Why did they beat Brees twice including in the playoffs? I have yet to here one good answer to this

    We have changed qbs 3 other qbs have come in Palko sucked. Orton outside one good game against a bad Packers defense moved the ball but couldn't get it in the endzone we have seen that from Cassel as well. Quinn had the balls bounceing off his WRs and get picked. We have seen that with Cassel as well. At some point you have to look and see that there are many others not doing the job at a high level as well. And that's hurting the team. Case and point go back to Sundays games Look what the Bucs WRs did. Look at ours. It's no contest. There Qb passed high as well. Instead of it going off there guys hands THEY MADE A PLAY. Our Number 1 Wr had 21 yards receving. There guy had more then that one 1 play. Steve Maneri more the doubled up what Bowe did. Tampa had 3 guys that more then doubled up what our #1 WR did. That's saying something. You don't think that plays a role?

    If that keeps going it wouldn't matter who's playing qb there not going to have a lot of success. Great Qbs make those around them better while that's true it doesn't excuse our guys for not doing there jobs. Bowe is one of the most talented WRs in the NFL. Yet he doesn't always play like it. That's a problem just like Cassel. You can say if we had a franchise qb we would be better off I agree 100% But if our #1 Wr didn't have games like he had Sunday we would also be better off. IF our guys could learn to catch the ball and not tip the ball to the defender we would also be better off. If our D played better we would also be better off. IF our o line protected better we would also be better off. If our coaches coached better we would also be better off. If our playcalling wasn't so predictable we would also be better off. This is a TEAM problem. It's not as simple as saying get a franchise qb and those problems will go away. Our whole team QBS included have to play better. If they don't any QB is going to struggle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matthewschiefs View Post
    So let me ask If those teams that we beat in 2010 were so bad that we shouldn't give credit to Cassel for the 2010 season and just look at all the bad years then why were they able to beat Peyton Manning? Why did they beat Brees twice including in the playoffs? I have yet to here one good answer to this

    We have changed qbs 3 other qbs have come in Palko sucked. Orton outside one good game against a bad Packers defense moved the ball but couldn't get it in the endzone we have seen that from Cassel as well. Quinn had the balls bounceing off his WRs and get picked. We have seen that with Cassel as well. At some point you have to look and see that there are many others not doing the job at a high level as well. And that's hurting the team. Case and point go back to Sundays games Look what the Bucs WRs did. Look at ours. It's no contest. There Qb passed high as well. Instead of it going off there guys hands THEY MADE A PLAY. Our Number 1 Wr had 21 yards receving. There guy had more then that one 1 play. Steve Maneri more the doubled up what Bowe did. Tampa had 3 guys that more then doubled up what our #1 WR did. That's saying something. You don't think that plays a role?

    If that keeps going it wouldn't matter who's playing qb there not going to have a lot of success. Great Qbs make those around them better while that's true it doesn't excuse our guys for not doing there jobs. Bowe is one of the most talented WRs in the NFL. Yet he doesn't always play like it. That's a problem just like Cassel. You can say if we had a franchise qb we would be better off I agree 100% But if our #1 Wr didn't have games like he had Sunday we would also be better off. IF our guys could learn to catch the ball and not tip the ball to the defender we would also be better off. If our D played better we would also be better off. IF our o line protected better we would also be better off. If our coaches coached better we would also be better off. If our playcalling wasn't so predictable we would also be better off. This is a TEAM problem. It's not as simple as saying get a franchise qb and those problems will go away. Our whole team QBS included have to play better. If they don't any QB is going to struggle.

    Lets take this from a different angle. You argue the rest of the team is not up to snuff either. Agreed. We need better all around. It is common now days to get the QB in place then add the talent around him that compliments his strengths/weaknesses. Heck, they tried to do it here. Why don't we have a speed burner WR? They do not have a QB on the team that can make the down field throws to take advantage. They had a chance to add that type of receiver, but they instead added another receiver like Bowe.

    There is a reason it often goes QB first, btw. Typically, your team is bad enough to get into that position to draft high enough to get one of those QBs. Once your team is more talented you start hitting the middle of the pack and no longer are in position to pickup the guy.

    I would like to add, btw. None of the QBs we have tried would/have/are starting for other teams and flourishing. If they have all been the same poor options, then they are a bad example for you to use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chief31 View Post
    Sandbagging.... First class.
    Sadly we haven't even had to ask for sandbagging lately. It's been happening naturally.

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthewschiefs View Post
    So let me ask If those teams that we beat in 2010 were so bad that we shouldn't give credit to Cassel for the 2010 season and just look at all the bad years then why were they able to beat Peyton Manning? Why did they beat Brees twice including in the playoffs? I have yet to here one good answer to this.
    Because your line of thinking is tired Matt, hat's why. I'm sick of hearing this line. Did those events happen? Yes. But guess what we beat the Saints and the Saints beat the Chargers so we're better then the Chargers right? Things just simply don't work that way no matter how much you want them too.


    Quote Originally Posted by matthewschiefs View Post
    We have changed qbs 3 other qbs have come in Palko sucked. Orton outside one good game against a bad Packers defense moved the ball but couldn't get it in the endzone we have seen that from Cassel as well. Quinn had the balls bounceing off his WRs and get picked. We have seen that with Cassel as well. At some point you have to look and see that there are many others not doing the job at a high level as well. And that's hurting the team. Case and point go back to Sundays games Look what the Bucs WRs did. Look at ours. It's no contest. There Qb passed high as well. Instead of it going off there guys hands THEY MADE A PLAY. Our Number 1 Wr had 21 yards receving. There guy had more then that one 1 play. Steve Maneri more the doubled up what Bowe did. Tampa had 3 guys that more then doubled up what our #1 WR did. That's saying something. You don't think that plays a role?
    So now because out QB's have sucked we're going to pin it on the WR's and we need new WR's? C'mon now. If your QB's have constantly sucked instead of trying to find a receiver that has go go gadget arms wouldn't the better idea be to go out and get a good QB when you have the chance? That's what everyone has been saying with this year. Some now want the Chiefs to lose but most just want the chance to get a guy that's going to throw good passes. Don't throw out the good parts because dang it we're going to make this bad part work.

    Did you ever stop to think that maybe our WR's look bad with Quinn is because they're so used to suck with Cassel that they adjust their play? Quinn hasn't started in the same amount of time that Cassel HAS started. You don't think there will be some rust to be removed? Add into it that one of Quinn's int's wasn't his fault and the other should have been caught but wasn't. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and half Cassel's int's this year. He's still had 4.5 int's and 4 fumbles...in 5 games. That's almost an average of an int that was his fault (almost 2 overall) and one fumble a game. Over his career he's had 54 int's and 22 fumbles....22!!! While Quinn isn't the answer when all things are equal and the season is all but over you go with change for change's sake.

    Quote Originally Posted by matthewschiefs View Post
    If that keeps going it wouldn't matter who's playing qb there not going to have a lot of success. Great Qbs make those around them better while that's true it doesn't excuse our guys for not doing there jobs. Bowe is one of the most talented WRs in the NFL. Yet he doesn't always play like it. That's a problem just like Cassel. You can say if we had a franchise qb we would be better off I agree 100% But if our #1 Wr didn't have games like he had Sunday we would also be better off. IF our guys could learn to catch the ball and not tip the ball to the defender we would also be better off. If our D played better we would also be better off. IF our o line protected better we would also be better off. If our coaches coached better we would also be better off. If our playcalling wasn't so predictable we would also be better off. This is a TEAM problem. It's not as simple as saying get a franchise qb and those problems will go away. Our whole team QBS included have to play better. If they don't any QB is going to struggle.
    While I agree with your statement if you're missing the needle off a compass you'll always be lost. I don't care how bad the other parts around it are. Don't take that as me disagreeing. I completely agree with this statement. But it starts with the QB. There's a reason when teams are rebuilding that they start with and go out and get a franchise QB.

  9. #38
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    You know, I keep hearing this term "Franchise QB" and I'm starting to believe it's way overblown & ripped out of context.

    If one were to define "Franchise QB" as being the QB that "by himself" can carry a team to a Super Bowl victory -- the closest that one could come to that would be Joe Montana with the 49ers in 1981.

    To me, the term "Quality QB" or "Great QB" sounds better than "Franchise QB". No QB can really succeed in the NFL and get to the post-season and have success there without a good supporting cast. matthewschiefs is quite correct in this regard -- look no further than the 1969 Chiefs for proof.

    Regarding the '69 Chiefs, Len Dawson was excellent QB, but look at the supporting cast that he had that year. Very good skill position players, very good O-Line, very good Special Teams, and last, but not least, a Defense that not only finished 1st in every major statistical category in the AFL, they also just physically beat the living hell out of opponents all year long. And don't forget HC Hank Stram.

    I do believe that the Chiefs have to get a great QB from somewhere this off-season, but the rest of the team must also improve their performance in 2013 and beyond, if the Chiefs are going to get back in the post-season hunt.
    Last edited by brdempsey69; 10-16-2012 at 12:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Isawa_mo View Post

    I would like to add, btw. None of the QBs we have tried would/have/are starting for other teams and flourishing. If they have all been the same poor options, then they are a bad example for you to use.
    Funny all we have heard since January is how Stupid Pioli is for not bringing Orton back. Funny how now that it's pointed out that he had the same issues with Cassel no all of a sudden he's a "bad option"

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    Quote Originally Posted by OPLookn View Post
    Because your line of thinking is tired Matt, hat's why. I'm sick of hearing this line. Did those events happen? Yes. But guess what we beat the Saints and the Saints beat the Chargers so we're better then the Chargers right? Things just simply don't work that way no matter how much you want them too.
    THAT'S NOT WHAT I'M SAYING. You're missing the whole point. The haters time and time again throw out the bad numbers for Cassel and say look. You claim that 2010 shouldn't count because of the weak teams that we beat. THE POINT IS THOSE "weak teams" BEAT SOME PRETTY GOOD TEAMS. How? If those teams are so bad we shouldn't give Cassel credit how can they beat teams with some of the best QBs in the NFL? What did they suddenly turn good when they faced those teams? You haters call anyone excuse makers funny how you have all the excuses for when Cassel does well.



    Quote Originally Posted by OPLookn View Post
    So now because out QB's have sucked we're going to pin it on the WR's and we need new WR's? C'mon now. If your QB's have constantly sucked instead of trying to find a receiver that has go go gadget arms wouldn't the better idea be to go out and get a good QB when you have the chance? That's what everyone has been saying with this year. Some now want the Chiefs to lose but most just want the chance to get a guy that's going to throw good passes. Don't throw out the good parts because dang it we're going to make this bad part work.
    Then you tell me how is it that multiple qbs have had the same issues. Everyone was whineing about how Orton should have been brought back he had some of the sames issues. WHY? Can you explain that to me? At some point you have to look at the talent around Cassel as well. At some point you have to see that others are not doing there jobs. At some point you have to see that there are passes hitting our guys in the hands that are not being caught. Why is Cassel the only qb in the NFL who's job it is to catch the ball for his WRs? ANd before you give me the high passes look at Tampa's WRS. Why is it that Mike Williams can make plays with a high ball but our guys can't?

    Quote Originally Posted by OPLookn View Post
    Did you ever stop to think that maybe our WR's look bad with Quinn is because they're so used to suck with Cassel that they adjust their play? Quinn hasn't started in the same amount of time that Cassel HAS started. You don't think there will be some rust to be removed? Add into it that one of Quinn's int's wasn't his fault and the other should have been caught but wasn't. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and half Cassel's int's this year. He's still had 4.5 int's and 4 fumbles...in 5 games. That's almost an average of an int that was his fault (almost 2 overall) and one fumble a game. Over his career he's had 54 int's and 22 fumbles....22!!! While Quinn isn't the answer when all things are equal and the season is all but over you go with change for change's sake.
    REALLY? That's how far the hate for Cassel goes. Now he's to blame when he didn't even play? GIVE ME A BREAK. Keep hating though it's all you can do. You just can't be fair to him.


    Quote Originally Posted by OPLookn View Post
    While I agree with your statement if you're missing the needle off a compass you'll always be lost. I don't care how bad the other parts around it are. Don't take that as me disagreeing. I completely agree with this statement. But it starts with the QB. There's a reason when teams are rebuilding that they start with and go out and get a franchise QB.
    And if you have that needle of the compass if nothing else works it won't work either. It goes both ways. Right now yes the compass is broken but the whole compass is broken. And if we just fix the needle we won't get that much better of a result. When looking at a broken compass some would say the compass is broken instead of the needle is broken. Unlike most on here who just say the needle is broken I say the compass is broken

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