1-5...Where do we go from here?

[Eydugstr]

It seems to me the Chiefs are in a spot where it's very unlikely that we'll be able to salvage the season. If that's the case, is it better to just let the season go, and go for a high ranking draft spot, or fight and scrap for every win we can get, and settle for where a 7-9, 8-8 or 6-10 draft position will put us?

If we go through a coaching/management change (which after the Bucs game is very likely), I'd rather play our backups and rookies and see what we've got on the benches, and then focus on getting a franchise QB. It would suck having to approach a game with a mindset of losing, though.

[OPLookn]

THAT'S NOT WHAT I'M SAYING. You're missing the whole point. The haters time and time again throw out the bad numbers for Cassel and say look. You claim that 2010 shouldn't count because of the weak teams that we beat. THE POINT IS THOSE "weak teams" BEAT SOME PRETTY GOOD TEAMS. How? If those teams are so bad we shouldn't give Cassel credit how can they beat teams with some of the best QBs in the NFL? What did they suddenly turn good when they faced those teams? You haters call anyone excuse makers funny how you have all the excuses for when Cassel does well.

No I get the whole point. Unfortunately we're trying to narrow down a whole game to a single point and it just can't be done. But something that definitely doesn't work is trying to say team a beat team b, team b beat team c so therefore team a is better then c. Simply doesn't work.

The reason some of those teams beat others has many reasons. Maybe a QB has an off day, maybe a CB misses tackles that day, maybe a running back that's been averaging Arian Foster type #'s has a family member sick or worse and his head isn't in the game. There are so many reasons as to why a team beats another team. Matchups are better or worse, a scheme plays well against us but sucks against someone else, on and on, etc.

But this standing up for Cassel when he's had poor play simply because others are "hating"...is getting absurd. When it comes down to it, bottom line, either you think Cassel is good enough to be our starting QB or he's not. If he's not then what's it matter if people are "hating" on him. They're saying he needs to be replaced just like you (if indeed you do want him replaced) but in varying flavors.

Then you tell me how is it that multiple qbs have had the same issues. Everyone was whineing about how Orton should have been brought back he had some of the sames issues. WHY? Can you explain that to me? At some point you have to look at the talent around Cassel as well. At some point you have to see that others are not doing there jobs. At some point you have to see that there are passes hitting our guys in the hands that are not being caught. Why is Cassel the only qb in the NFL who's job it is to catch the ball for his WRs? ANd before you give me the high passes look at Tampa's WRS. Why is it that Mike Williams can make plays with a high ball but our guys can't?

Because multiple QB's here have sucked. I seriously think our last good QB that was here that managed the team was Trent Green. Our last great QB that went out as a leader was Montana in his twilight years.

REALLY? That's how far the hate for Cassel goes. Now he's to blame when he didn't even play? GIVE ME A BREAK. Keep hating though it's all you can do. You just can't be fair to him.

How am I blaming Cassel when he didn't play? What in the world are you talking about?!? We've played 6 games, 5 of which Cassel has played in. Those are the stats I'm using and breaking down into an average. What in the heck are you talking about that I'm blaming him when he didn't play.

What I was alluding to is that Quinn didn't go out and light the world up. Cassel has had 176 attempts 176/5 is around 35 passes a game. Quinn threw 40 attempts so they're attempting about as much on average. Turnover wise Quinn had less int's that were his fault...heck I'll put one of those turnovers on Quinn. Cassel averages 2 but I'll say that half aren't his fault. If you can tell me how many actually were I'll go with that. Seriously, I don't know, all I have are numbers unfortunately. But he fumbles the ball on average once a game.

So to me when you have about the same amount of int's, less fumbles, same attempts and about the same completions (Cassel 58.5%, Quinn 60%) you go with Quinn. It's not a slight against Cassel, it's not that I hate him I just want to give Quinn more chances to show what we've got in him. This broad brush that you apply anyone who speaks down on Cassel is getting pretty broad.

And if you have that needle of the compass if nothing else works it won't work either. It goes both ways. Right now yes the compass is broken but the whole compass is broken. And if we just fix the needle we won't get that much better of a result. When looking at a broken compass some would say the compass is broken instead of the needle is broken. Unlike most on here who just say the needle is broken I say the compass is broken

I'm not trying to be a d**k but a compass basically is the needle. I can't remember all the details but if you do something to a pine needle and put it on a leaf, then put the leaf on water it'll point north. Random knowledge but back the point.

Is our whole team broken? I'd say no but I feel like a lot of that is coaching. So do we need a better coach yes. But that's something that's outside of the players. Inside of the players 9 times out of 10 a team starts rebuilding or fixing themselves by getting a new QB. I'd agree that the term "franchise QB" is over used but to me it basically means that this is the guy that's going to start if he physically can. Any other QB is a backup. To me that's a franchise QB and it's time to get a new one.

[matthewschiefs]

You are right on. Scrap this season for Geno Smith and let's have a great season next year. Look at the much improved Colts for inspiration.

THAT'S STUPID 100% STUPID. For ever Luck there's a Jamarcus Russel. For every Peyton Manning there's a Ryan Leaf.

2009: Chambers 19, Bowe 81
2010: Bowe 16, Copper 56
2011: Bowe 11, Breaston 33
2012: Bowe 14, Baldwin 56

So every year, Cassel has had a top 20 WR to throw to.

You can spare me the "why are our WRs not doing anything". It's because the QBs can't throw the ball down the field. Why do you think Josh Freeman's yds/att is 7.7 (8th in the league) while Cassel is 6.5 (right at his career average, 29th in the league), Quinn is 5.3 (right at his career average, dead last in the league). That's why they're dumping it off to the backup TE 3 yards down the field.

Why do you think the Chiefs have run the ball the 3rd most in the league (205 times)? Because they don't trust their quarterbacks to make first downs. Why do the Chiefs run the ball an insane number of times on 3rd and 6? Because they don't trust their quarterbacks to make first downs.

Well respected analyst Ron Jaworski ranks Cassel as the 22nd best QB in the league: Jaws' QB Countdown: Aaron Rodgers No. 1 - NFC North Blog - ESPN

I'm done trying to convince you. Take care.

And that 1 top 20 WR has games like Sunday where he gets out preformed by the backup te. If the qb can't get Bowe the ball then what is it some other qb throwing the ball to the backup te? Mccluster has out done Bowe twice this year. What is it some other QB throwing him the ball to? Strange others seem to get the ball when our top 20 can't. But ya I'm sure the qb is to blame for that 2. Really keep hating it's all your able to do. Throw out any good thing Cassel has done and only look at the bad. It's what you haters do over and over.

No I get the whole point. Unfortunately we're trying to narrow down a whole game to a single point and it just can't be done. But something that definitely doesn't work is trying to say team a beat team b, team b beat team c so therefore team a is better then c. Simply doesn't work.

The reason some of those teams beat others has many reasons. Maybe a QB has an off day, maybe a CB misses tackles that day, maybe a running back that's been averaging Arian Foster type #'s has a family member sick or worse and his head isn't in the game. There are so many reasons as to why a team beats another team. Matchups are better or worse, a scheme plays well against us but sucks against someone else, on and on, etc.

But this standing up for Cassel when he's had poor play simply because others are "hating"...is getting absurd. When it comes down to it, bottom line, either you think Cassel is good enough to be our starting QB or he's not. If he's not then what's it matter if people are "hating" on him. They're saying he needs to be replaced just like you (if indeed you do want him replaced) but in varying flavors.




Because multiple QB's here have sucked. I seriously think our last good QB that was here that managed the team was Trent Green. Our last great QB that went out as a leader was Montana in his twilight years.



How am I blaming Cassel when he didn't play? What in the world are you talking about?!? We've played 6 games, 5 of which Cassel has played in. Those are the stats I'm using and breaking down into an average. What in the heck are you talking about that I'm blaming him when he didn't play.

What I was alluding to is that Quinn didn't go out and light the world up. Cassel has had 176 attempts 176/5 is around 35 passes a game. Quinn threw 40 attempts so they're attempting about as much on average. Turnover wise Quinn had less int's that were his fault...heck I'll put one of those turnovers on Quinn. Cassel averages 2 but I'll say that half aren't his fault. If you can tell me how many actually were I'll go with that. Seriously, I don't know, all I have are numbers unfortunately. But he fumbles the ball on average once a game.

So to me when you have about the same amount of int's, less fumbles, same attempts and about the same completions (Cassel 58.5%, Quinn 60%) you go with Quinn. It's not a slight against Cassel, it's not that I hate him I just want to give Quinn more chances to show what we've got in him. This broad brush that you apply anyone who speaks down on Cassel is getting pretty broad.



I'm not trying to be a d**k but a compass basically is the needle. I can't remember all the details but if you do something to a pine needle and put it on a leaf, then put the leaf on water it'll point north. Random knowledge but back the point.

Is our whole team broken? I'd say no but I feel like a lot of that is coaching. So do we need a better coach yes. But that's something that's outside of the players. Inside of the players 9 times out of 10 a team starts rebuilding or fixing themselves by getting a new QB. I'd agree that the term "franchise QB" is over used but to me it basically means that this is the guy that's going to start if he physically can. Any other QB is a backup. To me that's a franchise QB and it's time to get a new one.

So now the game can't be broken down to one thing but all you haters can do is say look at Cassel's numbers. You can't have it both ways/

Your hating is what absurd you whine and moan about Cassel OVER AND OVER. When the d wasn't stopping ANYONE in the first 2 weeks it was Whine about Cassel. During the Bills game people talked about Bowe having a good game. But Cassel "only put up numbers when the game was over" They put up there numbers at the same time. What did Bowe go play a different game? You over and over again make excuses for why the team did well while Cassel was in there at times. REALLY? You can't see the blind hate. Making excuses for why we win? YOU DON'T LIKE CASSEL WE GET IT GET OVER IT. The constant hate for Cassel the constant whineing about Cassel is what's absurd.

How did you blame Cassel. This quote.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe our WR's look bad with Quinn is because they're so used to suck with Cassel that they adjust their play?

If you can't see the blame in Cassel there your hate has reached the point that you can't see when you're blaming Cassel?

I have no problem changeing QBs. GO look at the game post. I have been down on Cassel as well. But to say that with a franchise qb things will get better just like that. Or to not hold others accountable when they mess up but only call out Cassel is hating. Holding every one accountable is not defending it's being fair. When your number 1 wr is getting out preformed by a backup TE there are more problems then just the QB. PERIOD.

I'm done with you haters. You keep hating Cassel and think that no matter how many other qbs have had the same issues that a franchise QB is the answer to all our problems. I will call Cassel or any other qb out when they fail. I started a thread when it was time for me to hate on the qb. Go look at the game threads I have bashed Cassel when I felt it was fair to bash him. But I won't just call him out. To only call out 1 guy is unfair. But keep living in your little world where it's the evil Matt Cassel keeping us for winning. I'll stay in the real world where yes Cassel is a part of why we are losing but there are many other parts as well. I won't just keep whineing about 1 part I will whine about every part.

[OPLookn]

So now the game can't be broken down to one thing but all you haters can do is say look at Cassel's numbers. You can't have it both ways/

Again you compare apples to oranges. When I compare numbers it's for a player. When I give reasons as to why a TEAM might lose it's a collection of players. When you throw a lot of wrenches into a machine any one of them might cause the problem. When you see one wrench causing more problems then the rest guess what?!? I'm going to say that wrench needs to be removed.

Good grief it's all or nothing with you.

Your hating is what absurd you whine and moan about Cassel OVER AND OVER. When the d wasn't stopping ANYONE in the first 2 weeks it was Whine about Cassel. During the Bills game people talked about Bowe having a good game. But Cassel "only put up numbers when the game was over" They put up there numbers at the same time. What did Bowe go play a different game? You over and over again make excuses for why the team did well while Cassel was in there at times. REALLY? You can't see the blind hate. Making excuses for why we win? YOU DON'T LIKE CASSEL WE GET IT GET OVER IT. The constant hate for Cassel the constant whineing about Cassel is what's absurd.

How did you blame Cassel. This quote.



If you can't see the blame in Cassel there your hate has reached the point that you can't see when you're blaming Cassel?

I have no problem changeing QBs. GO look at the game post. I have been down on Cassel as well. But to say that with a franchise qb things will get better just like that. Or to not hold others accountable when they mess up but only call out Cassel is hating. Holding every one accountable is not defending it's being fair. When your number 1 wr is getting out preformed by a backup TE there are more problems then just the QB. PERIOD.

I'm done with you haters. You keep hating Cassel and think that no matter how many other qbs have had the same issues that a franchise QB is the answer to all our problems. I will call Cassel or any other qb out when they fail. I started a thread when it was time for me to hate on the qb. Go look at the game threads I have bashed Cassel when I felt it was fair to bash him. But I won't just call him out. To only call out 1 guy is unfair. But keep living in your little world where it's the evil Matt Cassel keeping us for winning. I'll stay in the real world where yes Cassel is a part of why we are losing but there are many other parts as well. I won't just keep whineing about 1 part I will whine about every part.

I saw the thread where you called him out. I'll admit that I've come here less often than before and don't post in as many threads now a days. The main reason is that I'm tired of people calling anyone that is trying to discuss Quinn vs Cassel as "whiners" and "haters".

You'll note that no where did I say if we replace Cassel that we'll instantly win. I'm not quite sure where you got that or why (again) you're painting in broad strokes with me. Show me one place where I say if we replace Cassel everything will be fine?

If I said anything it was to try the receivers with the new QB and they might be better or something to that extent. I'll tell you what though, it's the last time I try and discuss anything with you because I'm sick of throwing out stats for a possible discussion of why one person should start over the other only to be labeled a "whiner" and a "hater". Have fun arguing with people who just throw out "Cassel sucks, replace him".

[Seek]

I am all in favor for tanking the season, but I am guessing that everyong saying this Does not have Season Tickets. It is the Chiefs DUTY to try and win every dang game they can in Arrowhead. They have loyal fans who spent their hard earned money to go watch this crap. I had enough last year and did not renew, but if the Chiefs BURN a season for draft picks. They will have to earn Loyalty again and I am not sure they can risk that.

[matthewschiefs]

Again you compare apples to oranges. When I compare numbers it's for a player. When I give reasons as to why a TEAM might lose it's a collection of players. When you throw a lot of wrenches into a machine any one of them might cause the problem. When you see one wrench causing more problems then the rest guess what?!? I'm going to say that wrench needs to be removed.

Good grief it's all or nothing with you.



I saw the thread where you called him out. I'll admit that I've come here less often than before and don't post in as many threads now a days. The main reason is that I'm tired of people calling anyone that is trying to discuss Quinn vs Cassel as "whiners" and "haters".

You'll note that no where did I say if we replace Cassel that we'll instantly win. I'm not quite sure where you got that or why (again) you're painting in broad strokes with me. Show me one place where I say if we replace Cassel everything will be fine?

If I said anything it was to try the receivers with the new QB and they might be better or something to that extent. I'll tell you what though, it's the last time I try and discuss anything with you because I'm sick of throwing out stats for a possible discussion of why one person should start over the other only to be labeled a "whiner" and a "hater". Have fun arguing with people who just throw out "Cassel sucks, replace him".

And anyone that dares to point out others have made a mistake is a "excuse maker" "defender" the "lovefest"i have with Cassel or my favorite I was once told that since I dare to think that a ball that hits a WR in the hands should be caught that I myself am Matt Cassel. True that wasn't by you and it is a broad brush but it happens to anyone who dares to point out others don't do there job. Or that Cassel has nothing to do with why the defense was so bad the first few weeks. If you people who hate on him can do that then you will get it back. It's that simple. I to bash Cassel at times but I don't get the reaction that you do because I call everyone out. When Bowe goes a game and gets outplayed by a backup te I call him out. I bash Cassel when I feel it's due and defend him when I feel it's due yet despite the fact that I to Bash him I get labled all the above things I have mentioned.

The reason that you are labled a hater and a whiner is because that's what you're doing. A pass might be a little high hits a WR in the hands that WR deflects the ball and it gets picked you don't mention the fact that the ball hit the WR in the hands. It just a bad throw the WR gets a hall pass just so you can put all the blame on the guy that you don't like. That's hating. That's whining about the QB it happens all the time. A pure example of it is the comment I pointed out. Instead of just saying maybe the wrs need time to adjust to a new QB you had to throw in a comment about Cassel sucking. If you mean the wrs need time to adjust to a new QB ok fine I agree but you don't have to throw a dig at Cassel in that point. Yet it's what you did. Can you see the hate there?

[OPLookn]

And anyone that dares to point out others have made a mistake is a "excuse maker" "defender" the "lovefest"i have with Cassel or my favorite I was once told that since I dare to think that a ball that hits a WR in the hands should be caught that I myself am Matt Cassel. True that wasn't by you and it is a broad brush but it happens to anyone who dares to point out others don't do there job. Or that Cassel has nothing to do with why the defense was so bad the first few weeks. If you people who hate on him can do that then you will get it back. It's that simple. I to bash Cassel at times but I don't get the reaction that you do because I call everyone out. When Bowe goes a game and gets outplayed by a backup te I call him out. I bash Cassel when I feel it's due and defend him when I feel it's due yet despite the fact that I to Bash him I get labled all the above things I have mentioned.

The reason that you are labled a hater and a whiner is because that's what you're doing. A pass might be a little high hits a WR in the hands that WR deflects the ball and it gets picked you don't mention the fact that the ball hit the WR in the hands. It just a bad throw the WR gets a hall pass just so you can put all the blame on the guy that you don't like. That's hating. That's whining about the QB it happens all the time. A pure example of it is the comment I pointed out. Instead of just saying maybe the wrs need time to adjust to a new QB you had to throw in a comment about Cassel sucking. If you mean the wrs need time to adjust to a new QB ok fine I agree but you don't have to throw a dig at Cassel in that point. Yet it's what you did. Can you see the hate there?

Looking through some of my past threads I found out lots of instances where I called out other players or frankly called out Cassel haters for hating. I'd go on but frankly I'm tired of trying to defend myself.

Just How Bad Cassel Really Is - Page 2 - Kansas City Chiefs Forums post #18
Official Petition to bench Matt Cassel is spreading - Kansas City Chiefs Forums post #3
Rodney Hudson Out for the Season - Sent to IR - Kansas City Chiefs Forums #21

If you want go over to arrowhead pride where I've called out Bowe numerous times for letting two int's that were attributed to Cassel but were clearly Bowe's fault. Any time a ball goes through your hands and nails you in the head it's the receiver's fault.

You single out words just about as much as my wife. lol Seriously, I say he sucks there for I'm a hater. I'm sorry, I thought over throwing a wide open Bowe down the sideline that would have been a TD is sucking. What about floating the ball over the middle to let a receiver get blown up? Sucking. Throwing a ball behind a receiver to make them have to jump back to catch it. Sucking. If saying someone sucks is hating then yep...I'm a hater.

Cassel has made some good plays but when your good to bad plays are about even something has to give. But whatever, I guess I'll "hate" on. There, now I'm done.

[matthewschiefs]

Looking through some of my past threads I found out lots of instances where I called out other players or frankly called out Cassel haters for hating. I'd go on but frankly I'm tired of trying to defend myself.

Just How Bad Cassel Really Is - Page 2 - Kansas City Chiefs Forums post #18
Official Petition to bench Matt Cassel is spreading - Kansas City Chiefs Forums post #3
Rodney Hudson Out for the Season - Sent to IR - Kansas City Chiefs Forums #21

If you want go over to arrowhead pride where I've called out Bowe numerous times for letting two int's that were attributed to Cassel but were clearly Bowe's fault. Any time a ball goes through your hands and nails you in the head it's the receiver's fault.

You single out words just about as much as my wife. lol Seriously, I say he sucks there for I'm a hater. I'm sorry, I thought over throwing a wide open Bowe down the sideline that would have been a TD is sucking. What about floating the ball over the middle to let a receiver get blown up? Sucking. Throwing a ball behind a receiver to make them have to jump back to catch it. Sucking. If saying someone sucks is hating then yep...I'm a hater.

Cassel has made some good plays but when your good to bad plays are about even something has to give. But whatever, I guess I'll "hate" on. There, now I'm done.

I will apologize for lumping you in with the haters. When you're wrong you're wrong and I was wrong there. But I stand by what I said about the Cassel hate. It's OLD. No one is saying that he's great. But to think that our record would be any different if we had anther record is just a opinion. You can't prove it. And with the way the rest of the team has played this year I don't think it's a reach to say we wouldn't be that much better with a "franchise qb"

[LlamaNinja]

I will apologize for lumping you in with the haters. When you're wrong you're wrong and I was wrong there. But I stand by what I said about the Cassel hate. It's OLD. No one is saying that he's great. But to think that our record would be any different if we had anther record is just a opinion. You can't prove it. And with the way the rest of the team has played this year I don't think it's a reach to say we wouldn't be that much better with a "franchise qb"

A franchise QB provides hope look at RG3, Ponder, Dalton, Weeden, Newton, Tannenhill, and Luck. The teams suck (a few exceptions) overall yet no one is demanding the entire team to be benched or moved around because that QB leads the team. You see what you see with every great time a QB that takes control and leads the team EVEN Orton (who I still dont think is a starting QB) was able to lead the team. I was hopeful thinking Quinn might but it seems he is another passenger for the team. That is why I myself hate on Cassel. I also have hated on Bowe, Berry, and Hillis. Though I seem to be called a negative fan.
I just see problems with the team starting with bad choices with GM, HC, and QB. Every other position is fine or can be fixed with what we already have(hoping Berry comes back 100% by next year).

[doobs_05]

I remember back in the day (okay maybe 4-6 years ago) people were saying Thiggy was the answer and could be a great QB for KC, bringing up numbers to compare him to the elite QBs at the time, good times

[doobs_05]

Also, what happen to My Man Orton? did he get banned? I remember he predicted a 3-13 year and i think he predicted we win 1 game by this time and a bunch of people got real mad at him.