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Thread: People who know football know Cassell is not the problem.

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    Default People who know football know Cassell is not the problem.


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    While I don't believe that Matt Cassell is as good as touted it is clear to me that he has the most heart of anyone on the team. And probably want's to win more as well. I saw him scramble for a first down, not slide, and jump up fired up! I don't see any player or coach doing that. He is constantly under pressure every single snap due to what I believe is the real problem our offensive line. The defense rocks! Crennel is a great guy but not a head coach. I'm on the fence with Pioli. We will really see how devoted Hunt is to turning this thing around if he goes after a big name coach. That and focusing on the O line could make this team competitive overnight....with Matt Cassell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by doobs_05 View Post
    If we were the Washington Sentinels and our Coach was Jimmy McGinty (who looks a lot like Gene Hackman), then yes I would love Cassel on our team because all we would need to win in the second half is Heart.
    To me that's one of the best sports movies ever.....son of a *****? Son of a *****! I'm a son of a *****?

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    I hate this kind of post, so let's follow this through to a logical conclusion:

    1. It would see you are saying that since I believe Cassel is a problem, then I do not know football.

    or

    2. You qualify that only those people who do not know football would believe that Cassel is a problem

    Either way, you leave a way out for yourself against counter argument because you set up a logical fallacy at the beginning of the post, thus cutting off any real, substantive debate, since your fallback will always be a statement like, "Well, you obviously do not know football."


    Are you man enough? Eric Berry? Apparently Not!

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    Quote Originally Posted by matthewschiefs View Post
    Some will hate him and blame him for EVERYTHING

    Tonights game is prime example

    Bowe was dropping passes that ended drives you don't see some even mentioning that.

    Succopp missed a big field goal that would have won the game in regulation and kicked a ball off out of bounds You don't see some even mentioning that.

    Don't let it get to them get to you. You will be called an Excuse maker told you no nothing about football told you have a love fest for Cassel if you dare to call out others besides Cassel.
    OK, well on the point of Bowe, that horse is so dead and buried that most people are tired of talking about it. Bowe drops passes regularly, the knock on Cassel for me is why do you keep trying to throw him the ball? He is going to drop it over and over again.

    As for Succop, yeah, he missed a field goal, it is pretty rare it happens overall he has done what he has been asked to do. It sucks that things fail once in a while. If Succop had 15 missed field goals on the season, the same as Cassel's 15 interceptions, then maybe there would be a point in calling that out.


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    Quote Originally Posted by therick58 View Post
    it is clear to me that he has the most heart of anyone on the team.
    I don't know about that. Some of the guys on the D are playing like FIENDS!!!!! Lots of heart on our D for them not to have given up yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by therick
    And probably want's to win more as well.
    So long as you use qualifier "probably" then it keeps this sentence from being totally foolish.

    Quote Originally Posted by therick
    I saw him scramble for a first down, not slide, and jump up fired up!
    Good! That's part of his job....not something exceptional.

    Quote Originally Posted by therick
    I don't see any player or coach doing that.
    Ummmm....Short memory. Quinn has a lot of heart too. Remember he was trying to play through a concussion. Is he any better than Cassel? Open to debate.

    Seriously....Matt's a great guy with a lot of heart and a great competitive spirit. And no doubt he has been hampered by poor coaching and play calling. And if he had all the top talent in the NFL around him he would probably look pretty damned good. But he is not a top talent. He has proved that over and over again. If his skills were as big as his heart we'd have already won a few playoff games since he got here.

    I'd love to see Matt stay a Chief......at 1/4 the pay and as backup to a truly great QB.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hayvern View Post
    OK, well on the point of Bowe, that horse is so dead and buried that most people are tired of talking about it. Bowe drops passes regularly, the knock on Cassel for me is why do you keep trying to throw him the ball? He is going to drop it over and over again.

    As for Succop, yeah, he missed a field goal, it is pretty rare it happens overall he has done what he has been asked to do. It sucks that things fail once in a while. If Succop had 15 missed field goals on the season, the same as Cassel's 15 interceptions, then maybe there would be a point in calling that out.

    He drops balls but he is the only playmaker WR we have. Baldwin and Breaston don't even exist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctchiefsfan View Post
    I don't know about that. Some of the guys on the D are playing like FIENDS!!!!! Lots of heart on our D for them not to have given up yet.



    So long as you use qualifier "probably" then it keeps this sentence from being totally foolish.



    Good! That's part of his job....not something exceptional.



    Ummmm....Short memory. Quinn has a lot of heart too. Remember he was trying to play through a concussion. Is he any better than Cassel? Open to debate.

    Seriously....Matt's a great guy with a lot of heart and a great competitive spirit. And no doubt he has been hampered by poor coaching and play calling. And if he had all the top talent in the NFL around him he would probably look pretty damned good. But he is not a top talent. He has proved that over and over again. If his skills were as big as his heart we'd have already won a few playoff games since he got here.

    I'd love to see Matt stay a Chief......at 1/4 the pay and as backup to a truly great QB.

    Thats all Cassel should be. He has reached his full potential. He has heart but just does not have the ability. Great guy and he tried his very best. He is just not the man for the job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by texaschief View Post
    People who know football, don't defend Matt Cassel as if he can be a dependable starter in the NFL.
    By this point of the season he should have overcome the poor play-calling, terrible pass-blocking and won a game or two his own.

    But then... The drops are just too much.

    You are doing the job properly, only to have your teammates turn a quality throw into a pick-six.

    Cassel is not THE problem, and in my opinion, the least of our many problems on offense.

    I remain primarily focused on the coaching.

    I agree that Cassel could lead a very good offense, run-first or pass-happy, because I have seen him do both.

    But you just can't expect his to carry a poor offense around anywhere, like a Manning, or Brees.

    At least not yet.

    And I expect that he will not be getting another chance here, unless he becomes a super-star in the second half of this season, which might get him a chance on some other team.

    But I think The Chiefs will be forced by the fanbase to move on, one way, or another.

    By the way.... The INT in OT was disgusting. But I have seen EVBERY great QB to EVER play the game do it. I see some comments pretending like it is just impossible to be so bad. That is not true.

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    I love how people keep blaming the O-line. I re-watch a lot of the games on NFL Game Rewind's All-22 film, and the problem isn't so much the O-line. It's more centered around the fact that this is a run-first offense. Teams stack the box, send 6-7 attackers at a time. With that kind of pressure, of course the O-line is going to look horrible at times. The opposite is true though, this is one of the best O-lines in the league.

    Now, why is this a run-first offense? Because Matt Cassel is not anywhere near a capable passer to run a pass-first offense. He can't put defenses on their heels with his noodle arm and inaccurate tendencies.

    I'll duplicate some stats I saw from ProFootballFocus to back up my point about the O-line being good.

    1.) Matt Cassel holds on to the ball too long.

    It takes Cassel on average 2.84 seconds to get the ball out (7th worst in the league). On the other hand, it takes an average of 3.84 seconds before Cassel is sacked. This is 5th best in the league. The O-line holds up very well in pass protection.

    2.) Matt Cassel cannot read a defense, nor can he progress through is reads.

    Re-watch the Pittsburgh game. On the second to last drive it was 3rd and 7. Cassel had Bowe wide open, but stuck w/ his first read, Moeaki, and delivered a terribly underthrown ball. You could read Daboll's lips "BOWE WAS OPEN." Here's the overhead camera:



    I realize this is one play, but Cassel's tape is littered with this. He misses open receivers because he cannot progress through his reads, and he has not improved on this the last 4 years as a QB, to the point that we see his offensive coordinator yelling at him on the sideline for missing open receivers. If his first read is gone, he gets flustered and sits in the pocket until the O-line breaks down OR he takes off the second his first read isn't covered.


    The O-line is one of the Chiefs' bright spots. Jeff Allen has struggled some as a rookie, but overall, the O-line is outstanding. Take a look at ProFootballFocus's O-line rankings after week 10, the Chiefs are rated the 4th best. And this is coming from the people who watch all 32 teams every week to establish these grades:

    Source: Offensive Line Rankings: Week 10 Update | ProFootballFocus.com

    The fact of the matter is the same people who are clamoring that "the O-line is bad, the O-line is bad" are the same people who wanted Albert moved from LT a couple of years ago. Today, Albert is one of the best LTs in the league. ProFootballFocus ranks him as the second best (behind Denver's Ryan Clady) when it comes to pass blocking. Albert has given up 1 sack and 3 QB hits in 9 games. OUTSTANDING.

    To rehash, Cassel makes is his own O-line worse. Defenses are not afraid of him as a passer, so why not stack the box and send extra blitzers?

    It makes me sick to my stomach that people can still defend him after an 11/26 performance in which he threw a backbreaking interception into triple coverage to lose the game. It's a broken record, Cassel plays awful against good teams, yet it's everyone else's fault.

    And you want to talk drops? KC suffers their fair share of drops. But Peyton Manning and Aaron Rodgers both have higher drop percentages (drops per pass attempt) than Cassel. They have the two highest QB ratings in the league at 108 and 107.4, respectively.

    If you're still making excuses for Cassel and claiming that the offense around him is the cause for this failure, you clearly are delusional. You continue blame other parts of the offense, regardless of the overwhelming evidence that instead points the finger directly at Matt Cassel. This team needs a new quarterback, and they will not go anywhere until that happens.

    (Also, if you've never seen it, this thread is brilliant and continues to stack the evidence against Cassel: Chiefs The Declaration Of Independence, MO - The People vs. Matthew Gus Brennan Cassel - ChiefsPlanet

    I especially like the "Cassel Makes Offensive Linemen Worse" and the "Winning Teams Beat Cassel at an Alarming Rate.")

    Keep defending Matt Cassel though, the guy with 19 turnovers in 9 games. The guy who can't beat winning teams. The guy who is one of the worst quarterbacks in the league. Yeah, that's the guy who's the least of our problems on offense. I digress.
    Last edited by Ryfo18; 11-14-2012 at 12:38 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hayvern View Post
    I hate this kind of post, so let's follow this through to a logical conclusion:

    1. It would see you are saying that since I believe Cassel is a problem, then I do not know football.

    or

    2. You qualify that only those people who do not know football would believe that Cassel is a problem

    Either way, you leave a way out for yourself against counter argument because you set up a logical fallacy at the beginning of the post, thus cutting off any real, substantive debate, since your fallback will always be a statement like, "Well, you obviously do not know football."
    I agree with you here I think the better name for this thread would be Cassel is not the ONLY problem That might have been better because I don't think anyone can deny much that Cassel and the QB spot is a problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hayvern View Post
    OK, well on the point of Bowe, that horse is so dead and buried that most people are tired of talking about it. Bowe drops passes regularly, the knock on Cassel for me is why do you keep trying to throw him the ball? He is going to drop it over and over again.
    TO WHO? Who would he throw it to? Bowe is dropping passes this year but he is still the best WR we have. I would be STUPID not to throw the ball to him. The point about Bowe is to show that Cassel is not the only thing to fix with this team.

    And you want to talk about dead horses that's the bashing Cassel much more then Bowe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hayvern View Post
    As for Succop, yeah, he missed a field goal, it is pretty rare it happens overall he has done what he has been asked to do. It sucks that things fail once in a while. If Succop had 15 missed field goals on the season, the same as Cassel's 15 interceptions, then maybe there would be a point in calling that out.
    I was talking about that game alone. People were acting like Cassels pick in OT single handly cost them the game. Well if others hadn't messed up then we wouldn't have been in OT like the missed field goal. That's all I was saying there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryfo18 View Post
    I love how people keep blaming the O-line. I re-watch a lot of the games on NFL Game Rewind's All-22 film, and the problem isn't so much the O-line. It's more centered around the fact that this is a run-first offense. Teams stack the box, send 6-7 attackers at a time. With that kind of pressure, of course the O-line is going to look horrible at times. The opposite is true though, this is one of the best O-lines in the league.

    Now, why is this a run-first offense? Because Matt Cassel is not anywhere near a capable passer to run a pass-first offense. He can't put defenses on their heels with his noodle arm and inaccurate tendencies.

    I'll duplicate some stats I saw from ProFootballFocus to back up my point about the O-line being good.

    1.) Matt Cassel holds on to the ball too long.

    It takes Cassel on average 2.84 seconds to get the ball out (7th worst in the league). On the other hand, it takes an average of 3.84 seconds before Cassel is sacked. This is 5th best in the league. The O-line holds up very well in pass protection.

    2.) Matt Cassel cannot read a defense, nor can he progress through is reads.

    Re-watch the Pittsburgh game. On the second to last drive it was 3rd and 7. Cassel had Bowe wide open, but stuck w/ his first read, Moeaki, and delivered a terribly underthrown ball. You could read Daboll's lips "BOWE WAS OPEN." Here's the overhead camera:



    I realize this is one play, but Cassel's tape is littered with this. He misses open receivers because he cannot progress through his reads, and he has not improved on this the last 4 years as a QB, to the point that we see his offensive coordinator yelling at him on the sideline for missing open receivers. If his first read is gone, he gets flustered and sits in the pocket until the O-line breaks down OR he takes off the second his first read isn't covered.


    The O-line is one of the Chiefs' bright spots. Jeff Allen has struggled some as a rookie, but overall, the O-line is outstanding. Take a look at ProFootballFocus's O-line rankings after week 10, the Chiefs are rated the 4th best. And this is coming from the people who watch all 32 teams every week to establish these grades:

    Source: Offensive Line Rankings: Week 10 Update | ProFootballFocus.com

    The fact of the matter is the same people who are clamoring that "the O-line is bad, the O-line is bad" are the same people who wanted Albert moved from LT a couple of years ago. Today, Albert is one of the best LTs in the league. ProFootballFocus ranks him as the second best (behind Denver's Ryan Clady) when it comes to pass blocking. Albert has given up 1 sack and 3 QB hits in 9 games. OUTSTANDING.

    To rehash, Cassel makes is his own O-line worse. Defenses are not afraid of him as a passer, so why not stack the box and send extra blitzers?

    It makes me sick to my stomach that people can still defend him after an 11/26 performance in which he threw a backbreaking interception into triple coverage to lose the game. It's a broken record, Cassel plays awful against good teams, yet it's everyone else's fault.

    And you want to talk drops? KC suffers their fair share of drops. But Peyton Manning and Aaron Rodgers both have higher drop percentages (drops per pass attempt) than Cassel. They have the two highest QB ratings in the league at 108 and 107.4, respectively.

    If you're still making excuses for Cassel and claiming that the offense around him is the cause for this failure, you clearly are delusional. You continue blame other parts of the offense, regardless of the overwhelming evidence that instead points the finger directly at Matt Cassel. This team needs a new quarterback, and they will not go anywhere until that happens.

    (Also, if you've never seen it, this thread is brilliant and continues to stack the evidence against Cassel: Chiefs The Declaration Of Independence, MO - The People vs. Matthew Gus Brennan Cassel - ChiefsPlanet

    I especially like the "Cassel Makes Offensive Linemen Worse" and the "Winning Teams Beat Cassel at an Alarming Rate.")

    Keep defending Matt Cassel though, the guy with 19 turnovers in 9 games. The guy who can't beat winning teams. The guy who is one of the worst quarterbacks in the league. Yeah, that's the guy who's the least of our problems on offense. I digress.


    That thread is SO 1 sided and unfair it's not funny. It just gives you blind numbers and doesn't include all the factors. That is a 100% UNFAIR way to look at things. That's where I put my Cassel was better in 2010 then Peyton Manning and Drew Brees thing. I give you the blind results and make a judgement Don't throw in any other factors You can spin things to make someone look as good or as bad as you want when you do that. That statement I say about Cassel being better then BRees and Manning is one of the dumbest things I have ever said but I can twist the blind numbers and make that statement. That article is so biased I can't take it seriously. When making a judgement you have to look at the whole picture and what goes into it not just the numbers.

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