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Thread: QBs and Super Bowl Contenders

  1. #1
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    Default QBs and Super Bowl Contenders


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    Coming into the season, there was little doubt as to who the Super Bowl contenders were. The stalwarts like:

    Patriots-Brady
    Steelers-Roethlesberger
    Ravens-Flacco
    Falcons-Ryan
    Texans-Shaub
    Packers-Rogers
    Giants-Manning

    As horrible as the Chiefs offense has been this season, they still have a defense ranked #15 in the league. Pair that defense with an offense that can control the clock and keep them fresh, and Chiefs would have a top 10 or even top 5 defense. The offensive line ranks in the top 5. The Chiefs have the 4th best rushing attack. They have 2 first round picks at WR along with Breaston, McCluster, and a great pass catching TE in Moeaki. This team as an above average special teams unit as well.

    The Chiefs, as a full unit, have fewer holes on their team than the perennial Super Bowl contenders. So, what are we missing? We can sit here and blame coaching until we're blue in the face, but the point of the matter is that this team won't be able to do anything until they address the most important position on the team. No coaching staff will have a chance at success as long as Matt Cassel and Brady Quinn are under center.

    If you don't believe me, go watch the Steelers being led by Charlie Batch. They're AWFUL. They look a lot like Chiefs, in fact.

  2. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyManHali View Post
    I am worried that we are going to win enough games to fall into the 4-5 spot and go for Teo, which will happen if fat scott is still here.
    I wouldn't mind getting Teo at all,. IMO he has looked better throughout the year then any qb that will be out there.

  3. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthewschiefs View Post
    I wouldn't mind getting Teo at all,. IMO he has looked better throughout the year then any qb that will be out there.
    Agreed. No Andrew Luck or RGlll in this draft.
    SHUT IT

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    Quote Originally Posted by matthewschiefs View Post
    Cassel is a big part of the reason that the offense has sucked but he's not THE reason there are many reasons why it has sucked but I will agree Cassel is a HUGE part of the reason why the offense has stunk so badly. But can you deny there has been poor play around him at times as well. That's all I'm saying. Why is it so hard to point to the rest of the problem?

    I'm not going to push for Quinn to start next year. I have said and will keep saying that IF he plays the rest of the year the way he did Sunday then he should get to fight for the job. With a rookie or free agent whatever the case would be. If he does what he did Sunday the rest of the year wouldn't it be fair to give him a CHANCE at the job. That's a big if but Quinn hasn't even had 1 season of starts If he does do what he did Sunday going forward I don't think we can ignore that. I have my doubts that it'll happen but I think it's something we would have to look at.
    Perhaps the players around Cassel weren't playing up to their potential due to Cassel's lack of a command presence in the huddle and on the field of play. I think the team lost confidence in him. Quinn looked much better in this respect than Cassel ever has IMHO.
    SHUT IT

  5. #54
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    I'm not sold on taking a QB in the first round either. If we could nab either Klein or Barkley (because of injury) in the 2nd, that would be my aim. Getting the best player in the draft or trading down for multiple picks should be the only concerns for the Chiefs.

    Although, I will say that after watching the KSU/UT game the other night, I've cooled quite a bit on Klein. His throwing motion seems long and doesn't posses the arm strength I first thought he had. I watched him with acute interest wondering why he wasn't getting more first round consideration... I get it now.

    Flacco COULD be available. His agent thinks he's a top 5 QB and the Ravens may balk. He'll probably get franchised again, but he could become available... who knows. Another option COULD be Tony Romo. There seems to be a 50/50 split on what Romo is. He's probably not a top 3 QB, but I don't think he's out of the top 10 either. His INTs troubled me, but then I looked at them and he's average. His 15 picks are within one or two of about 10-15 QBs in the league. His QBR is 90, which again, is about average. However, he's 3rd in yds and has a 70 completion percentage. He won't be a free agent, but he won't cost too much considering he's only under control for one year... unless they work out an extension first. One last free agent option could be Jason Campbell.

    The Romo trade would probably cost our 2nd round pick AND a first round pick swap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bike View Post
    Perhaps the players around Cassel weren't playing up to their potential due to Cassel's lack of a command presence in the huddle and on the field of play. I think the team lost confidence in him. Quinn looked much better in this respect than Cassel ever has IMHO.

    Cassel has no doubt hurt the other players around him. There's no denying that. But that's also been the case the other way around the other players have hurt Cassel. Cassel has hurt more then others but others have hurt him as well that's all I'm saying. It's not as simple to say that Cassel is the reason we are where we are the TEAM is. And when that happens you point to the head coach,.


    I agree with you on Quinn Sundays game He LOOKED like a qb and a good one. Now we need to see it more then once. And we need to see it very often if he's going to be the guy but for one sunday he looked very good. Can he be the guy I have doubts but I'm open to it if he keeps up what he did Sunday.

  7. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthewschiefs View Post
    I HAVE TIME AND TIME AGAIN. Note in BIG LETTERS I SAID I WANT HIM GONE.

    I just don't pretend he's the reason we have been horrible when there has been so much bad play across the board this year like so many want to. I would love to say we are a qb away I would love to say the QB spot is the reason we are losing I CAN'T with all the other bad play we have seen. It's just not fair to say.

    You and others go through EXTREMES to hate on the QBS. Not even 3 hours after we had a qb throw for 200 yards and 2 tds while not turning it over and we saw a WIN this thread talking about our horrible qbs pops up. Did we really need anther bashing the QB thread? You have time and time again praised Orton. He beat a Packers team that had a horrible d. They averaged giving up 22 points a game we put up 19 below average against a horrible d Yet you praise him but yet any win we have you dismiss for a horrible team or "cream puff" You can't have it both ways. You and others give the guys you like all the credit none of the blame while giving our qbs no credit and all the blame. I give blame across the board and "have a lovefest" for the qbs. How many times do we have to talk about the bad qb play? It has been there but to ignore all the other horrible play we have seen to hate on the qb is just hating end of story its all some of you ever do on here anymore. IT'S OLD. Feel free to keep hating I will keep telling you that's all your doing.

    I liked Orton because he reminded me of Trent Green, he wasn't a franchise pro bowl qb but he could read defenses and make throws. 2009 was his first year in Denver, he played a tough schedule and had a pretty productive year.

    I thought with a little time he would be good for us, he had proven that he could play legit teams and do well, Cassel never did. Even Cassel's year in New England he contributed to beating ONE winning team, and that was with the team that went 19-1 the previous year. I thought with a great running game Orton could of been even MORE productive, but that time has passed.
    Last edited by MyManHali; 12-07-2012 at 07:27 AM.

  8. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyManHali View Post
    I liked Orton because he reminded me of Trent Green, he wasn't a franchise pro bowl qb but he could read defenses and make throws. 2009 was his first year in Denver, he played a tough schedule and had a pretty productive year.

    I thought with a little time he would be good for us, he had proven that he could play legit teams and do well, Cassel never did. Even Cassel's year in New England he contributed to beating ONE winning team, and that was with the team that went 19-1 the previous year. I thought with a great running game Orton could of been even MORE productive, but that time has passed.

    I will say the offense looked better with Orton at QB last year but just like there was some things working against him there were things in his favor. The Number 1 thing is there was never much film on him with this team.We never will no how he would continue going.

    But my point about Orton isn't what could have been it was showing how your standards are 100% different from what it's with Cassel. Orton beat the packers because the D stood up. Same with Denver. The D was playing great at the end of last year.That's why we won.You would be saying that if it had been Cassel at QB. The Packers had one of the worst Defenses in the NFL last year. If Cassel had been the QB you would be saying that. You make excuses for every win we had with Cassel while praising Orton in the same spot. Orton might have made the offense look better but we lost the division because he couldn't put up much points against the Raiders. He had the same problem with the offense that Cassel did last year he moved the ball some but once we got into the redzone it was over and we had to settle for 3. Yet you praise 1 bash the other. Orton might have made the offense look a bit better but the results were not much better when it comes to the number 1 thing for an offense points on the board.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matthewschiefs View Post
    I will say the offense looked better with Orton at QB last year but just like there was some things working against him there were things in his favor. The Number 1 thing is there was never much film on him with this team.We never will no how he would continue going.

    But my point about Orton isn't what could have been it was showing how your standards are 100% different from what it's with Cassel. Orton beat the packers because the D stood up. Same with Denver. The D was playing great at the end of last year.That's why we won.You would be saying that if it had been Cassel at QB. The Packers had one of the worst Defenses in the NFL last year. If Cassel had been the QB you would be saying that. You make excuses for every win we had with Cassel while praising Orton in the same spot. Orton might have made the offense look better but we lost the division because he couldn't put up much points against the Raiders. He had the same problem with the offense that Cassel did last year he moved the ball some but once we got into the redzone it was over and we had to settle for 3. Yet you praise 1 bash the other. Orton might have made the offense look a bit better but the results were not much better when it comes to the number 1 thing for an offense points on the board.

    He had been there a month. Cassel had been there for 3 seasons. He was picked up off of waivers for god's sakes. He was even coming off an injury and playing with a team he had absolutely no experience playing with.

    My standards were different because I have seen Kyle Orton play well against good teams, I have never seen that with Matt Cassel in his 4 seasons as a starter. Why would I want someone who plays like a scrub against legit teams? Kyle Orton atleast proved that he was capable, and that was without a great ground game to hide behind.

    You can say "Well if cassel beat Green Bay you would of talked about how bad the defense was." I firmly believe Cassel would of made mistakes against Green Bay and Denver to lose the game, there is no doubt in my mind.
    Last edited by MyManHali; 12-07-2012 at 06:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MyManHali View Post
    He had been there a month. Cassel had been there for 3 seasons. He was picked up off of waivers for god's sakes. He was even coming off an injury and playing with a team he had absolutely no experience playing with.
    And other teams had no to very little tape on him with our offense. That goes both ways not just one. It's a lot easier in some ways just like it was a lot harder in some ways for Orton.

    Quote Originally Posted by MyManHali View Post
    My standards were different because I have seen Kyle Orton play well against good teams, I have never seen that with Matt Cassel in his 4 seasons as a starter. Why would I want someone who plays like a scrub against legit teams? Kyle Orton atleast proved that he was capable, and that was without a great ground game to hide behind.
    The problem is that your standard is whatever is Anti Cassel. Let me just give a couple of these.

    1. Week 1 2010 the Chiefs beat the Chargers you say it was inspite of Cassel Well week 17 we put up a grand total of 7 points and Orton gets full credit for the win?

    2. Week 2 this year. You were very proud to say see what Bowe did. It's the 1 time I said you were trolling. Yet when I say look at Cassel's numbers you were quick to say "he did that once the game was already over" Ya well so did Bowe. They put up there numbers at the same time. Since Bowe needs Cassel to get him the ball and Cassel needs Bowe to catch it. 1 you give credit 2 the other you bash.

    3. You spent part of the offseason telling me that the loss of Charles "was just an excuse for Cassel" Now you want to talk about Orton not having a ground game so are you "just making excuses for Orton"?


    Orton Looked better in his brief time in KC then Cassel did for most of his. But looking better doesn't mean much if points are not going on the board any better. Putting points on the board is the number 1 job of an offense under Orton they didn't do that much better then Cassel. We will never no what would have happened. Orton could have really gotten something going if he had more time there is no denying that but what also could have happened is other teams get a gameplan for Orton in this offense and we would be going nowhere. There's also no denying that. I don't think there's a reason to be to high or low on Orton we just didn't see enough

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    Quote Originally Posted by matthewschiefs View Post
    And other teams had no to very little tape on him with our offense. That goes both ways not just one. It's a lot easier in some ways just like it was a lot harder in some ways for Orton.



    The problem is that your standard is whatever is Anti Cassel. Let me just give a couple of these.

    1. Week 1 2010 the Chiefs beat the Chargers you say it was inspite of Cassel Well week 17 we put up a grand total of 7 points and Orton gets full credit for the win?

    He threw for 68 hot **** yards against SD. And I never said "Orton beat denver." Looking at the big picture Matt, I wanted Orton as our qb for the next year, based on what I had seen in the past and what he did for us in that short time frame as a Chief, was on par and in my opinion better than what Cassel did.

    2. Week 2 this year. You were very proud to say see what Bowe did. It's the 1 time I said you were trolling. Yet when I say look at Cassel's numbers you were quick to say "he did that once the game was already over" Ya well so did Bowe. They put up there numbers at the same time. Since Bowe needs Cassel to get him the ball and Cassel needs Bowe to catch it. 1 you give credit 2 the other you bash.


    3. You spent part of the offseason telling me that the loss of Charles "was just an excuse for Cassel" Now you want to talk about Orton not having a ground game so are you "just making excuses for Orton"?

    I was not making an excuse for Orton, because Orton succeeded and did well against a legit schedule without a running game. Cassel has never done well even with an elite running game against a legit schedule. Hell, even with a 19-1 team

    Orton Looked better in his brief time in KC then Cassel did for most of his. But looking better doesn't mean much if points are not going on the board any better. Putting points on the board is the number 1 job of an offense under Orton they didn't do that much better then Cassel. We will never no what would have happened. Orton could have really gotten something going if he had more time there is no denying that but what also could have happened is other teams get a gameplan for Orton in this offense and we would be going nowhere. There's also no denying that. I don't think there's a reason to be to high or low on Orton we just didn't see enough
    2. It was a 35-3 game, a complete blowout. It just makes me sick that a 60 million dollar qb can't put up points. If you recall, I said Bowe was "The only one playing hard."


    Well obviously looking back everyone can agree we would of been much better off with Kyle Orton. What do you think is more complicated? One man trying to figure out his teammates and the opposing defense, or one defense going against a simplistic offensive gameplan?

    For some reason I cant highlight my second and third answers in bold up above, but they are in there.
    Last edited by MyManHali; 12-07-2012 at 11:56 PM.

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