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Thread: QBs and Super Bowl Contenders

  1. #1
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    Coming into the season, there was little doubt as to who the Super Bowl contenders were. The stalwarts like:

    Patriots-Brady
    Steelers-Roethlesberger
    Ravens-Flacco
    Falcons-Ryan
    Texans-Shaub
    Packers-Rogers
    Giants-Manning

    As horrible as the Chiefs offense has been this season, they still have a defense ranked #15 in the league. Pair that defense with an offense that can control the clock and keep them fresh, and Chiefs would have a top 10 or even top 5 defense. The offensive line ranks in the top 5. The Chiefs have the 4th best rushing attack. They have 2 first round picks at WR along with Breaston, McCluster, and a great pass catching TE in Moeaki. This team as an above average special teams unit as well.

    The Chiefs, as a full unit, have fewer holes on their team than the perennial Super Bowl contenders. So, what are we missing? We can sit here and blame coaching until we're blue in the face, but the point of the matter is that this team won't be able to do anything until they address the most important position on the team. No coaching staff will have a chance at success as long as Matt Cassel and Brady Quinn are under center.

    If you don't believe me, go watch the Steelers being led by Charlie Batch. They're AWFUL. They look a lot like Chiefs, in fact.

  2. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyManHali View Post
    2. It was a 35-3 game, a complete blowout. It just makes me sick that a 60 million dollar qb can't put up points. If you recall, I said Bowe was "The only one playing hard."


    Well obviously looking back everyone can agree we would of been much better off with Kyle Orton. What do you think is more complicated? One man trying to figure out his teammates and the opposing defense, or one defense going against a simplistic offensive gameplan?

    For some reason I cant highlight my second and third answers in bold up above, but they are in there.
    So 7 points against Denver is succeeding? Losing to Oakland because we couldn't get the ball in the end zone is succeeding? Why are your standards for Orton so low but for Cassel so high if Orton is clearly the bettter guy?

    Bowe Played hard? Then why wasn't he doing anything till the game was already over? Is he just not as good as we thought that he just couldn't preform? I know you will blame Cassel because it's what you haters do when the offense struggles excuse everyone else or say they played bad because of Cassel. I won't buy that. We have seen Bowe play better then he has a lot of the times this season WITH CASSEL at qb. But go on living in fantasy land where everything would be roses if we just had anther QB. I'll stick to the real world and look at the WHOLE problem not just one peace of the problem because I think you have to look at the WHOLE problem if you're going to fix it. But I have and will continue to admit QB has been a big problem it's just not easy to say we would be so much better with any QB seeing how many times this year others have failed in there job.

  3. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthewschiefs View Post
    So 7 points against Denver is succeeding? Losing to Oakland because we couldn't get the ball in the end zone is succeeding? Why are your standards for Orton so low but for Cassel so high if Orton is clearly the bettter guy?

    Because of the 20 million cassel was making that year, and the length of time he was signed for.
    We also traded a second round pick to get him, Orton was claimed off waivers. Orton played better than cassel did during his time here, combine that and his past success against a legit schedule in Denver, that is all of the evidence I need.

    Bowe Played hard? Then why wasn't he doing anything till the game was already over? Is he just not as good as we thought that he just couldn't preform? I know you will blame Cassel because it's what you haters do when the offense struggles excuse everyone else or say they played bad because of Cassel. I won't buy that. We have seen Bowe play better then he has a lot of the times this season WITH CASSEL at qb. But go on living in fantasy land where everything would be roses if we just had anther QB. I'll stick to the real world and look at the WHOLE problem not just one peace of the problem because I think you have to look at the WHOLE problem if you're going to fix it. But I have and will continue to admit QB has been a big problem it's just not easy to say we would be so much better with any QB seeing how many times this year others have failed in there job. I said Bowe played hard, what is wrong with that?
    "Ill stick to the real world and look at the whole problem." Haha where was that last season? You were the one who failed to realize what a bust Pioli was and also failed to realize Cassel was not the answer. I spoke out about it and got absolutely trashed.

    Don't act like you are the one who sees the whole picture, You were the one who spent post after post defending our GM, his players, and our quarterback. Expectations were high from you, were they not? I was the one expecting a below .500 year. How many times have I trashed Pioli's depth? His prospects? The coaching?

    How many times did i get trashed for saying things like speaking out against Daboll before the year started. I wasn't on board with any of it. I knew Pioli would crash and burn.

    You clearly did not see the whole picture.

    I am the one who was right. You were wrong.
    Last edited by MyManHali; 12-08-2012 at 12:27 AM.

  4. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyManHali View Post
    "Ill stick to the real world and look at the whole problem." Haha where was that last season? You were the one who failed to realize what a bust Pioli was and also failed to realize Cassel was not the answer. I spoke out about it and got absolutely trashed.

    Don't act like you are the one who sees the whole picture, You were the one who spent post after post defending our GM, his players, and our quarterback. Expectations were high from you, were they not? I was the one expecting a below .500 year.

    I am the one who was right. You were wrong.

    Yes because one guy is clearly the reason we are losing. That's real world. When our Wrs are tipping passes to defenders DARN THAT QB. When our rbs have fumbled twice in 1 game on our own side of the field DARN THAT QB. When the defense can't catch a cold DARN THAT QB. All what we have heard this year. But you're right Cassel has been the thing holding us back. Everyone else is fine.

    The reason you got "trashed" is you repeat the SAME stuff OVER AND OVER AND OVER again. So many on here do it. BLAH OUR QBS SUCK BLAH OUR QBS SUCK. It's all you do. It's old. You make excuses for anything the 2 guys who you don't like Pioli and Cassel have done well (given that's not much) then expect to be able to use the same excuse for the god amoung qbs that is Kyle Orton apperently. And when I use your same logic to say well that win wasn't such a big deal like going against a HORRIBLE packers D you seem to have a problem with it. You get the response you get from me because you like others have 1 set of rules for the guys you like. Anther for the guy you don't who you will take every chance to hate. Like I've said to you so many times You can't have it both ways.

    I was thinking we would contend for the AFC west I was wrong about that. But I won't live in the pretend world you do where Cassel is the thing holding us back. Bowe has let us down at times. Charles let us down against the chargers. The defense has played so poorly way to often this year. This coaching staff has been HORRIBLE. (outside of this past week) This team has been so bad across the board. Changing Qbs will help some but it won't even come close to fixing all the problems. We have WAY to many problems for that.

  5. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthewschiefs View Post
    Yes because one guy is clearly the reason we are losing. That's real world. When our Wrs are tipping passes to defenders DARN THAT QB. When our rbs have fumbled twice in 1 game on our own side of the field DARN THAT QB. When the defense can't catch a cold DARN THAT QB. All what we have heard this year. But you're right Cassel has been the thing holding us back. Everyone else is fine.

    The reason you got "trashed" is you repeat the SAME stuff OVER AND OVER AND OVER again. So many on here do it. BLAH OUR QBS SUCK BLAH OUR QBS SUCK. It's all you do. It's old. You make excuses for anything the 2 guys who you don't like Pioli and Cassel have done well (given that's not much) then expect to be able to use the same excuse for the god amoung qbs that is Kyle Orton apperently. And when I use your same logic to say well that win wasn't such a big deal like going against a HORRIBLE packers D you seem to have a problem with it. You get the response you get from me because you like others have 1 set of rules for the guys you like. Anther for the guy you don't who you will take every chance to hate. Like I've said to you so many times You can't have it both ways.

    I was thinking we would contend for the AFC west I was wrong about that. But I won't live in the pretend world you do where Cassel is the thing holding us back. Bowe has let us down at times. Charles let us down against the chargers. The defense has played so poorly way to often this year. This coaching staff has been HORRIBLE. (outside of this past week) This team has been so bad across the board. Changing Qbs will help some but it won't even come close to fixing all the problems. We have WAY to many problems for that.

    But was I right?

    Matt, honestly, if we had a capable QB what do you think our record would be right now.

    Because, I think it would be atleast 6-6, the whole team reacted completely different with a new qb under center last season (No not Palko), I didn't think the Chiefs believe in Cassel, at all. I would have to search for this, and I will when I am not at work, Tamba Hali praised Orton and said it was nice to have a qb that can complete some drives and give the defense a break.

    What should I be praising Cassel for? His awful starting record? His rating? The money and length of time he has been here? The fact we gave up a second round pick? We wasted 4 seasons with that scrub. If you can't see that then something is clearly wrong with you. As a fan of the Chiefs I can't even begin to comprehend why you would defend that scrub AT ALL. He screwed our franchise.

    And let's backup for a second, I will blame one man for the fall of our team. I blame Scott Pioli.
    Last edited by MyManHali; 12-08-2012 at 12:51 AM.

  6. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyManHali View Post
    But was I right?

    Matt, honestly, if we had a capable QB what do you think our record would be right now.

    Because, I think it would be atleast 6-6, the whole team reacted completely different with a new qb under center last season (No not Palko), I didn't think the Chiefs believe in Cassel, at all. I would have to search for this, and I will when I am not at work, Tamba Hali praised Orton and said it was nice to have a qb that can complete some drives and give the defense a break.

    What should I be praising Cassel for? His awful starting record? His rating? The money and length of time he has been here? The fact we gave up a second round pick? We wasted 4 seasons with that scrub. If you can't see that then something is clearly wrong with you. As a fan of the Chiefs I can't even begin to comprehend why you would defend that scrub AT ALL. He screwed our franchise.
    I think we would be a couple more wins possibly .500 I would agree but we still wouldn't be going anywhere .500 would be tops and I think it's a reach to say that.

    Aww yes this they don't believe in Cassel cop out. That's what it is to excuse everyone else from there mistakes. Being at work just think what would happen if you messed up and while your boss was rideing you about it you just said well it doesn't matter so an so would have just screwed it up. Would your boss just say oh that's right and walk away? He might just walk away after telling you to seek employment somewhere else. These guys are not paid to "believe in Cassel" They are paid do there job. They haven't WAY to often this year.

    I didn't say you should be praising Cassel I just said for every win he has had you have an excuse for. I used the same ones against your guy and you seem to have a problem with it. Like I said it's one set of rules for your guy and anther for Cassel. There is such a double standard out there. Cassel isn't a great QB but that doesn't mean his standards should be higher then any other QB out there I will still say he's not as bad as he has looked this year and that like every other spot he has suffered from this HORRIBLE coaching staff. I hold Cassel to blame for his fair share of this horrible season he's the most to blame from any player but I hold Romeo more to blame because of the poor play across the board.

  7. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthewschiefs View Post
    I think we would be a couple more wins possibly .500 I would agree but we still wouldn't be going anywhere .500 would be tops and I think it's a reach to say that.

    Aww yes this they don't believe in Cassel cop out. That's what it is to excuse everyone else from there mistakes. Being at work just think what would happen if you messed up and while your boss was rideing you about it you just said well it doesn't matter so an so would have just screwed it up. Would your boss just say oh that's right and walk away? He might just walk away after telling you to seek employment somewhere else. These guys are not paid to "believe in Cassel" They are paid do there job. They haven't WAY to often this year.

    I didn't say you should be praising Cassel I just said for every win he has had you have an excuse for. I used the same ones against your guy and you seem to have a problem with it. Like I said it's one set of rules for your guy and anther for Cassel. There is such a double standard out there. Cassel isn't a great QB but that doesn't mean his standards should be higher then any other QB out there I will still say he's not as bad as he has looked this year and that like every other spot he has suffered from this HORRIBLE coaching staff. I hold Cassel to blame for his fair share of this horrible season he's the most to blame from any player but I hold Romeo more to blame because of the poor play across the board.

    His standards should be high when he is given a contract similar to a number 1 pick and was pretty much given the keys to this franchise. We didn't pick him up in FA and he wasn't playing on a 1-2 year deal worth 500k. You do know he was making more than every other qb with the exception of Peyton Manning in 09 right? You don't pay a questionable starter that kind of money.

    Even though Orton did lsome good things like bring KC back and put them in a position to win the game in that game against oakland he was the reason they lost. I have never, EVER made excuses for Kyle Orton in that Oakland game, not once had I ever brought up the time when Bowe dropped the ball in the end zone, then Orton threw a pick the play right after the dropped ball. I never ever brought that up Matt, do you know why? Because he is the quarterback, he is the leader of the team and should accept responsibility for his actions.

    The problem is KC franchise and most of the fanbase never held Cassel accountable for anything, it was usually always someone elses fault.

    The job of the quarterback is to step up and be the leader, accept responsibility for the things that happen out on the field, especially offensively. How many times have we seen Green Bay drop a pass, or do something that offsets the team and Aaron Rodgers steps up and makes it happen. THATS WHY THEY GET PAID. I have never heard Cassel accept responsibility for a loss. Not once, I have heard other great qb's say it, but not Cassel.
    Last edited by MyManHali; 12-08-2012 at 01:12 AM.

  8. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyManHali View Post
    His standards should be high when he is given a contract similar to a number 1 pick and was pretty much given the keys to this franchise. We didn't pick him up in FA and he wasn't playing on a 1-2 year deal worth 500k. You do know he was making more than every other qb with the exception of Peyton Manning in 09 right? You don't pay a questionable starter that kind of money.

    Even though Orton did lsome good things like bring KC back and put them in a position to win the game in that game against oakland he was the reason they lost. I have never, EVER made excuses for Kyle Orton in that Oakland game, not once had I ever brought up the time when Bowe dropped the ball in the end zone, then Orton threw a pick the play right after the dropped ball. I never ever brought that up Matt, do you know why? Because he is the quarterback, he is the leader of the team and should accept responsibility for his actions.

    The problem is KC franchise and most of the fanbase never held Cassel accountable for anything, it was usually always someone elses fault.

    The job of the quarterback is to step up and be the leader, accept responsibility for the things that happen out on the field, especially offensively. How many times have we seen Green Bay drop a pass, or do something that offsets the team and Aaron Rodgers steps up and makes it happen. THATS WHY THEY GET PAID. I have never heard Cassel accept responsibility for a loss. Not once, I have heard other great qb's say it, but not Cassel.
    So it's money for you ok I don't agree with that but I can respect that.

    To me money isn't an issue. All these guys make good money. They should do there jobs just as Cassel should. And they haven't far to often just as Cassel.

    I never said you made excuse for Orton I said you make excuses for just about every win Cassel has. When I use the same for Ortons wins you don't seem to be as willing to here them. It's just as I said 1 set of rules and 1 standard for Cassel 1 different for Orton. IF that's because of money ok I can at least now know why. I can at least respect that

  9. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthewschiefs View Post
    So it's money for you ok I don't agree with that but I can respect that.

    To me money isn't an issue. All these guys make good money. They should do there jobs just as Cassel should. And they haven't far to often just as Cassel.

    I never said you made excuse for Orton I said you make excuses for just about every win Cassel has. When I use the same for Ortons wins you don't seem to be as willing to here them. It's just as I said 1 set of rules and 1 standard for Cassel 1 different for Orton. IF that's because of money ok I can at least now know why. I can at least respect that

    To be specific it is not money,when you pay someone that much chances are they will be with you for a long time, especially if pioli signs them, and Cassel has been here for 4 seasons. If he signs him to a 1 year deal, then it's a completely different situation.

    They should be held to different standards Matt, one has been trusted with the organization, has signed a fat contract for 6 years and the other was claimed off waivers. I don't understand why you dont understand that. And I know you remember this, specifically my plea was not for Orton to be our starter, it was for ANYONE ELSE not named Matt Cassel to be our starter. But yes, I would of much rather had Orton as our guy than Cassel.

    Ultimately, I put all the blame on Scott Pioli, he is the one who orchestrated the whole deal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MyManHali View Post
    To be specific it is not money,when you pay someone that much chances are they will be with you for a long time, especially if pioli signs them, and Cassel has been here for 4 seasons. If he signs him to a 1 year deal, then it's a completely different situation.

    They should be held to different standards Matt, one has been trusted with the organization, has signed a fat contract for 6 years and the other was claimed off waivers. I don't understand why you dont understand that. And I know you remember this, specifically my plea was not for Orton to be our starter, it was for ANYONE ELSE not named Matt Cassel to be our starter. But yes, I would of much rather had Orton as our guy than Cassel.

    Ultimately, I put all the blame on Scott Pioli, he is the one who orchestrated the whole deal.
    To me it doesn't matter what the contract is for the job is the same. When you're at work and you mess up again if your boss is getting on you for that if you say well so and so messed up and he makes more it won't fix the fact that you messed up. If a player messes up that hurts the team just as much if there being paid 60 million or 60$. I understand your mindset a lot of people have it I just don't agree with it.

    Scott Pioli has made a big mistake with Cassel. But I think he has made a bigger one. Romeo as the head coach. Let me put it this way. Looking at the QB being the problem would be as If you go to the doctor and he tells you that you have a sprained ankle and a life threating illness saying you no doc I really want to get that sprained ankle taken care of. Sure it hurts and it can really limit what you can do but it's not as much as a harm to you as the illness. Cassel has been the sprained ankle he has hurt the team and he has limited what we can do. The coaching of this team is the cause of death. It was the illness.

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    Quinn has had one good game , more than Cassel all season. But i do agree its not all their fault. Piss poor coaching is where it starts then lack of talent/skill of the qb's definitely next. Overall lack of talent on this team is obvious. We have a few really good players and that is it.

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