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Thread: QBs and Super Bowl Contenders

  1. #1
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    Default QBs and Super Bowl Contenders


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    Coming into the season, there was little doubt as to who the Super Bowl contenders were. The stalwarts like:

    Patriots-Brady
    Steelers-Roethlesberger
    Ravens-Flacco
    Falcons-Ryan
    Texans-Shaub
    Packers-Rogers
    Giants-Manning

    As horrible as the Chiefs offense has been this season, they still have a defense ranked #15 in the league. Pair that defense with an offense that can control the clock and keep them fresh, and Chiefs would have a top 10 or even top 5 defense. The offensive line ranks in the top 5. The Chiefs have the 4th best rushing attack. They have 2 first round picks at WR along with Breaston, McCluster, and a great pass catching TE in Moeaki. This team as an above average special teams unit as well.

    The Chiefs, as a full unit, have fewer holes on their team than the perennial Super Bowl contenders. So, what are we missing? We can sit here and blame coaching until we're blue in the face, but the point of the matter is that this team won't be able to do anything until they address the most important position on the team. No coaching staff will have a chance at success as long as Matt Cassel and Brady Quinn are under center.

    If you don't believe me, go watch the Steelers being led by Charlie Batch. They're AWFUL. They look a lot like Chiefs, in fact.

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    Really??????????????????????????????????????

    Tell me what head coach of the contenders can't explain why one of the if not the best RB in the NFL went a full game with 5 carries. Show me anther team that has the commentators litteraly laughing at just how horrible the play calling is. SHOW ME 1. Or as I have been asking for WEEKS SHOW ME 1 darn adjustment this team has made.

    You point to the Steelers today They are NOT in the same boat. The Steelers are on there 3RD STRING QB they don't even have there backup that's different from what the Chiefs have.

    This team has suffered this year from bad QB play but they have also suffered from Bad WR O line Defense all year. They have suffered from bad play across the board QB is more then any spot but poor play is still across the board.

    And last but not least this no coaching staff has a chance under Cassel and QUinn UMMMMM Todd Haley? He won an AFC west title with Cassel. He lost Charles week 2 last season but still had more wins then 2 with Cassel. Todd Haley came in took a 2-14 team over and won 4 games with Matt Cassel as the QB. Todd Haley wasn't even a great head coach but he shows that this team can be much better with even Cassel at QB.

    Even after a win some people have to go to extremes to hate the QBs. People need to get over the qb the constant post bashing the QBs are OLD good grief
    ​BAN ROY


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    Quote Originally Posted by texaschief View Post
    Coming into the season, there was little doubt as to who the Super Bowl contenders were. The stalwarts like:

    Patriots-Brady
    Steelers-Roethlesberger
    Ravens-Flacco
    Falcons-Ryan
    Texans-Shaub
    Packers-Rogers
    Giants-Manning

    As horrible as the Chiefs offense has been this season, they still have a defense ranked #15 in the league. Pair that defense with an offense that can control the clock and keep them fresh, and Chiefs would have a top 10 or even top 5 defense. The offensive line ranks in the top 5. The Chiefs have the 4th best rushing attack. They have 2 first round picks at WR along with Breaston, McCluster, and a great pass catching TE in Moeaki. This team as an above average special teams unit as well.

    The Chiefs, as a full unit, have fewer holes on their team than the perennial Super Bowl contenders. So, what are we missing? We can sit here and blame coaching until we're blue in the face, but the point of the matter is that this team won't be able to do anything until they address the most important position on the team. No coaching staff will have a chance at success as long as Matt Cassel and Brady Quinn are under center.

    If you don't believe me, go watch the Steelers being led by Charlie Batch. They're AWFUL. They look a lot like Chiefs, in fact.

    I both agree and disagree with you on some things.

    Yes, you need a good qb to be a contender, there is no doubt about it. And we are not going to get it done with Cassel or Quinn.

    I do not agree with you that we are close. We aren't. We severely lack depth in just about every position, we don't have a second WR or CB. We don't have a RB to compliment Jamaal Charles, and obviously we dont have a quarterback.

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    We don't even need an elite QB just a good top 10/12 QB for example someone with the ability of a Joe Flacco.
    Cassel or Quinn are not the answer.

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    I'll agree the Chiefs need better at the QB position & if they have a chance to draft Geno Smith, then they should take him.

    I'll also agree that Cassel is done and Stanzi isn't the future.

    However, Quinn must stay <---- that's right, you read that correctly.

    Remember Rich Gannon. He came to the Chiefs in '95 and was somewhat undistinguished ( just like Quinn is now ) & stayed that way for 2 and 1/2 seasons. Who would have thought going into the '97 season that by the end of that same season, he'd blossom into a quality QB that could lead a team to post-season success? The Chiefs brass didn't -- they signed Grbac and made him the starter and he did start the first 10 games in '97 before getting hurt in the Pitt game & Gannon had to take over for him.

    Gannon's next 3 starts resulted in a 24-12 loss to the Jags, a 24-23 win over the Donks, and a 19-14 win over the Seahawks & he didn't really establish himself as "the guy" at QB for the Chiefs.

    BUT, then it happened, starting when they hosted the 49ers entering the last 4 games of the '97 season & they crushed the Niners 44-9 in that game & went to win all 4 of those final four games, outscoring their opponents 128-29 over that stretch. Gannon's great play at QB was the major reason for it & why he should have been the starter going into the playoffs.

    Am I suggesting that Quinn is the next Rich Gannon? No, I'm not suggesting that. What I'm saying is that Quinn is still somewhat of an unknown commodity just like Gannon was for 44 games with the Chiefs prior to those final 4 games of the '97 season, which is where Gannon distinguished himself.

    I'm also suggesting, regarding Cassel, Quinn, and Stanzi, that if the Chiefs keep any of the 3 around for 2013, Quinn should be at the top of the list. Besides, they have to have at least ONE seasoned QB on their roster, regardless of what direction they go.
    Last edited by brdempsey69; 12-02-2012 at 08:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MyManHali View Post
    I do not agree with you that we are close. We aren't. We severely lack depth in just about every position, we don't have a second WR or CB. We don't have a RB to compliment Jamaal Charles, and obviously we dont have a quarterback.
    I don't think we'll ever know what we have in Baldwin until we get a good QB though. And let's be honest, most teams don't have "depth" across the board. They're just well coached to make up for their deficiencies. I think of a team like the Steelers who are missing Polamalu and what seems like their whole offensive line every week and even Batch this week. They just find ways to win.
    Diehard Fan Living in Packer Territory

    Co-Founder: 2 Mugs Fantasy Football -- a site about and football!

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    Quote Originally Posted by matthewschiefs View Post
    Really??????????????????????????????????????

    Tell me what head coach of the contenders can't explain why one of the if not the best RB in the NFL went a full game with 5 carries. Show me anther team that has the commentators litteraly laughing at just how horrible the play calling is. SHOW ME 1. Or as I have been asking for WEEKS SHOW ME 1 darn adjustment this team has made.

    Again, I'm not saying the coaching isn't part of the problem. What I AM saying is that we are going to continue going through head coaches until the QB position is addressed. Having a QB who can manage a game makes things a hell of a lot easier on a head coach than one like Matt Cassel who invents new ways of turning the ball over each week. The offensive coordinator was scared to death to throw the ball down the field all season because the QBs who play for this team make poor decisions or just can't make the throws or reads correctly.

    You point to the Steelers today They are NOT in the same boat. The Steelers are on there 3RD STRING QB they don't even have there backup that's different from what the Chiefs have.

    That's the whole point. Cassel WAS/IS a backup QB. He's not a starting caliber QB. So, if we START a #2, his backup would be a #3. We are in EXACTLY the same boat... except, we've been on the boat MUCH longer. Just because Pioli is an idiot and pays Cassel starter money, doesn't make him starter quality.

    This team has suffered this year from bad QB play but they have also suffered from Bad WR O line Defense all year. They have suffered from bad play across the board QB is more then any spot but poor play is still across the board.

    I disagree. The O-line pass protects well. Not only does Cassel give up on plays too quickly, but he's a statue in the pocket. Despite the poor QB play, only 14 teams have given up fewer sacks. In fact, they have given up 15 fewer sacks this season than the Green Bay Packers. The Bears, Ravens, and 49ers also rank below the Chiefs O-line in sacks. The Eagles, Panthers, Cowboys, and Redskins have all given up more sacks than the Chiefs despite having extremely mobile QBs. They also block for the 4th best rushing attack in the league. Please, tell me more about how poor the Chiefs O-line is despite starting two rookies and displacing Ryan Lilja...

    Nobody in their right mind would say the Chiefs WRs are a bad group. 2 first round picks who can make spectacular catches? Ya, they're horrible. It's tough for WRs to get into rhythm when they play on a team that's in the bottom of the league in attempts and have a QB who's worst in the league in efficiency... but you go ahead and blame the O-line and WRs... that makes sense.

    The defense statistically ranks 15th despite the fact that the offense ranks dead last in scoring and can't stay on the field to give them a break. Half the defense is comprised of first round picks... and that doesn't include Flowers, Arenas or Houston.


    And last but not least this no coaching staff has a chance under Cassel and QUinn UMMMMM Todd Haley? He won an AFC west title with Cassel. He lost Charles week 2 last season but still had more wins then 2 with Cassel. Todd Haley came in took a 2-14 team over and won 4 games with Matt Cassel as the QB. Todd Haley wasn't even a great head coach but he shows that this team can be much better with even Cassel at QB.

    Would you say the 2010 season (with the league's easiest schedule and Charlie Weiss as the OC) was the exception or the rule?

    Even after a win some people have to go to extremes to hate the QBs. People need to get over the qb the constant post bashing the QBs are OLD good grief
    Quote Originally Posted by MyManHali View Post
    I both agree and disagree with you on some things.

    Yes, you need a good qb to be a contender, there is no doubt about it. And we are not going to get it done with Cassel or Quinn.

    I do not agree with you that we are close. We aren't. We severely lack depth in just about every position, we don't have a second WR or CB. We don't have a RB to compliment Jamaal Charles, and obviously we dont have a quarterback.
    We have all the WR talent a team could possibly want. Peyton Hillis... the leading rusher 2 years ago is NOT a good compliment to Charles? C'mon.

    CB combos are overrated. You don't need two #1 CBs on a team. As far as contenders are concerned, only the Steelers, 49ers, Broncos, and Bears have given up less through the air than the Chiefs. A #2 CB is NOT the problem. Is it a secondary issue that could be addressed? Sure. But this team isn't going down in flames because our opponent's #2 WR is killing us every week.

    This league is built around 1 position. If you don't have a good player at that position, you generally don't have a good team. It's really not that difficult to understand. The losing record shouldn't be hung at Matt Cassel's door, but his performance during these past seasons is ABSOLUTELY something he should be held accountable for. He has shown that he cannot be a starting QB to be depended on week in a week out. Quinn didn't get drafted in the first round to sit on the bench. He has had quite a few seasons to prove he belongs at the #1 spot. He couldn't keep his spot in Cleveland, couldn't beat out Tebow, and now has a shot on a 2-10 team AFTER he couldn't supplant Cassel BEFORE the season was lost. He IS NOT the answer.
    Last edited by texaschief; 12-02-2012 at 09:13 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by texaschief View Post
    We have all the WR talent a team could possibly want.

    CB combos are overrated. You don't need two #1 CBs on a team. As far as contenders are concerned, only the Steelers, 49ers, Broncos, and Bears have given up more through the air than the Chiefs. A #2 CB is NOT the problem. Is it a secondary issue that could be addressed? Sure. But this team isn't going down in flames because our opponent's #2 WR is killing us every week.

    This league is built around 1 position. If you don't have a good player at that position, you generally don't have a good team. It's really not that difficult to understand. The losing record shouldn't be hung at Matt Cassel's door, but his performance during these past seasons is ABSOLUTELY something he should be held accountable for. He has shown that he cannot be a starting QB to be depended on week in a week out. Quinn didn't get drafted in the first round to sit on the bench. He has had quite a few seasons to prove he belongs at the #1 spot. He couldn't keep his spot in Cleveland, couldn't beat out Tebow, and now has a shot on a 2-10 team AFTER he couldn't supplant Cassel BEFORE the season was lost. He IS NOT the answer.

    I never said the WR group was bad I just said at times they have made bad plays here and there. you and others want to ignore those and point at the QB Same with the O line. At times they have played poorly but you and others don't want to talk about that.

    And AHHHHH the 2010 excuse that you and the other QB haters want to keep talking about. So then Peyton manning and drew brees both need to be out of football. They both lost to teams that even Matt Cassel could beat and hes horrible right? Sorry in the NFL EVERY WIN COUNTS. You don't just show up and win. That's why you are called haters you make excuses for the good and throw out the bad from every one else and point at our QBS and say see there the problem. It's not that simple END OF STORY. Even on a day after we win and the QB plays pretty good heres a thread talking about our horrible QBS. You can't say good job today keep it up. You just have to hate on them. They will never be good enough for you. Just admit that. No matter what they do they will never please you.

    Oh and how is it that even with the horrible QB play the Steelers managed to win that game? Your example kind of backfired on you there.
    ​BAN ROY


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    Quote Originally Posted by brdempsey69 View Post
    I'll agree the Chiefs need better at the QB position & if they have a chance to draft Geno Smith, then they should take him.

    I'll also agree that Cassel is done and Stanzi isn't the future.

    However, Quinn must stay <---- that's right, you read that correctly.

    Remember Rich Gannon. He came to the Chiefs in '95 and was somewhat undistinguished ( just like Quinn is now ) & stayed that way for 2 and 1/2 seasons. Who would have thought going into the '97 season that by the end of that same season, he'd blossom into a quality QB that could lead a team to post-season success? The Chiefs brass didn't -- they signed Grbac and made him the starter and he did start the first 10 games in '97 before getting hurt in the Pitt game & Gannon had to take over for him.

    Gannon's next 3 starts resulted in a 24-12 loss to the Jags, a 24-23 win over the Donks, and a 19-14 win over the Seahawks & he didn't really establish himself as "the guy" at QB for the Chiefs.

    BUT, then it happened, starting when they hosted the 49ers entering the last 4 games of the '97 season & they crushed the Niners 44-9 in that game & went to win all 4 of those final four games, outscoring their opponents 128-29 over that stretch. Gannon's great play at QB was the major reason for it & why he should have been the starter going into the playoffs.

    Am I suggesting that Quinn is the next Rich Gannon? No, I'm not suggesting that. What I'm saying is that Quinn is still somewhat of an unknown commodity just like Gannon was for 44 games with the Chiefs prior to those final 4 games of the '97 season, which is where Gannon distinguished himself.

    I'm also suggesting, regarding Cassel, Quinn, and Stanzi, that if the Chiefs keep any of the 3 around for 2013, Quinn should be at the top of the list. Besides, they have to have at least ONE seasoned QB on their roster, regardless of what direction they go.
    I agree on Quinn as long as he plays like he did today the rest of the year. Even though given that this thread has shown up I guess even what he did today isn't good enough for the haters
    ​BAN ROY


  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthewschiefs View Post
    I never said the WR group was bad I just said at times they have made bad plays here and there. you and others want to ignore those and point at the QB Same with the O line. At times they have played poorly but you and others don't want to talk about that.

    And AHHHHH the 2010 excuse that you and the other QB haters want to keep talking about. So then Peyton manning and drew brees both need to be out of football. They both lost to teams that even Matt Cassel could beat and hes horrible right? Sorry in the NFL EVERY WIN COUNTS. You don't just show up and win. That's why you are called haters you make excuses for the good and throw out the bad from every one else and point at our QBS and say see there the problem. It's not that simple END OF STORY. Even on a day after we win and the QB plays pretty good heres a thread talking about our horrible QBS. You can't say good job today keep it up. You just have to hate on them. They will never be good enough for you. Just admit that. No matter what they do they will never please you.

    Oh and how is it that even with the horrible QB play the Steelers managed to win that game? Your example kind of backfired on you there.

    Not really. The team still looked horrible. The Broncos had a winning season with Tebow at the helm last year... why would they even think about upgrading??
    It's especially important to talk about how bad of a QB these two are, on days like today. You seem to get too high on the highs. Today, just like the 2010 season, is the exception, not the rule. Getting excited about how your team performed on an exceptionally emotional day, against a horrible team, playing at home, is nothing more than getting excited about pyrite... and, (just like 2010 when the Chiefs had to finally play a good team) if you think Quinn/Cassel is the answer at the QB position, you're going to get a quick reality check.

    Can teams win with poor QBs? Absolutely. Again, reference Denver last season. Will teams consistently contend for Super Bowls with poor QBs? Absolutely not.

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