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Thread: QBs and Super Bowl Contenders

  1. #1
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    Default QBs and Super Bowl Contenders


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    Coming into the season, there was little doubt as to who the Super Bowl contenders were. The stalwarts like:

    Patriots-Brady
    Steelers-Roethlesberger
    Ravens-Flacco
    Falcons-Ryan
    Texans-Shaub
    Packers-Rogers
    Giants-Manning

    As horrible as the Chiefs offense has been this season, they still have a defense ranked #15 in the league. Pair that defense with an offense that can control the clock and keep them fresh, and Chiefs would have a top 10 or even top 5 defense. The offensive line ranks in the top 5. The Chiefs have the 4th best rushing attack. They have 2 first round picks at WR along with Breaston, McCluster, and a great pass catching TE in Moeaki. This team as an above average special teams unit as well.

    The Chiefs, as a full unit, have fewer holes on their team than the perennial Super Bowl contenders. So, what are we missing? We can sit here and blame coaching until we're blue in the face, but the point of the matter is that this team won't be able to do anything until they address the most important position on the team. No coaching staff will have a chance at success as long as Matt Cassel and Brady Quinn are under center.

    If you don't believe me, go watch the Steelers being led by Charlie Batch. They're AWFUL. They look a lot like Chiefs, in fact.

  2. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryfo18 View Post
    The reason I'm not going to argue with you is because you have a tendency to simplify everything to one random game that supports your view.
    This is laughable coming from someone who takes an article that just has blind stats does not include some pretty BIG factors as the gospel just to say Cassel sucks. Anyone who dares to think that lack of talent around a guy in one of the years stated the fact that one of the years included in the article this team almost broke the record for dropped passes might be a factor in some of those stats being as bad as they are just has a "love fest for Cassel" But yet when I talk about Geno Smith only being 6-5 all of a sudden you want to talk about the poor defense around him and all that. You want to include all the factors you refuse to listen to with Cassel for your guy. Your double standard is clear.

    My whole point is that you make it out to be that these teams are so bad that any joe can come in and beat them so the Qbs we have get no credit for them from you. That's not how it works in the NFL. It's hard to win 1 game. You just have this mindset Our QBS get all the blame when we lose no credit when we will. You have a clear biased against our QBS. I freely state our QB play has been poor but when they do well I don't still bash them. I don't make excuses when they win. And When other talent Fs up I have no problem saying they Fed up. You ignore the other talents Fing things up to say see how bad our QBs are. Bowe gets outplayed by our backup TE all we here is how it's the QB's fault. All I ask is for you to either be fair or just admit you hate our QBS be honest about it. I don't have to agree with it but I can respect it.



    Quote Originally Posted by Ryfo18 View Post
    Cam Newton is a pretty damn good QB too. My view is more looking back on the 2010 season and saying, "Wow, they were able to beat some bad teams, but did nothing against good ones." And yes, Quinn played well, but I'm not going to foolishly say this is the magic bullet solution after 1 good game just because he plays for my favorite team.
    And those bad teams beat some good teams. Including the then defending super bowl champs Twice. Every week in the NFL some bad team beats a good team almost. Doesn't mean those wins don't count or are any different then any other win.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ryfo18 View Post
    I'm fine with Quinn staying to compete. I think it would be a great idea for all the reasons brdempsey69 said. I would really like to see him perform like that against a team like the Broncos though. Doesn't change my opinion that this team should use its draft position to draft the best QB.
    And he will get his chance against Denver if he doesn't get hurt. And I have said that I want him to have a chance IF he keeps up what he did today. A chance not hand him the job. I want anther QB from somewhere. I don't see a QB in the draft that's a "can't miss" guy. So if we go elsewhere I'm fine with that. I don't really care where anther QB comes from just as long as there is one there to compete with Brady for the job IF he does what he did today going forward.

  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by texaschief View Post
    So, let's give Quinn the absolute BEST possible outcome over the next 4 weeks, he ends up with stats no worse than what he did today, and finishes the season with 5 straight wins...

    You guys are good with Quinn going forward knowing that he put up those numbers in games that don't matter, against teams with losing records, and a final game against a Broncos team who will probably be playing their 2nd and 3rd string players?

    Your entire offseason approach at the QB position will be determined by these last 5 games under those conditions and you think that's a good sample... is that right?

    Just making sure I have your argument correct.
    The problem is, you are wanting an instant superstar at QB & you aren't going to get him. Every QB that the Chiefs have ever drafted since the AFL-NFL re-aligned in 1970 has been a BUST. The successful QB's in KC have always come via FA or trade, including Len Dawson.

    I'm not saying they shouldn't draft a QB next April, in fact, I was one of the first (if not the first) to suggest that they double-dip at the QB position.

    Kansas City Chiefs Forums - View Single Post - Qb of the future?

    Never before have they taken 2 QB's in the draft that I'm aware of since the AFL-NFL re-alignment in 1970. That will NOT guarantee an instant superstar at the QB position, however. Or even a quality QB for that matter. Therefore, Quinn must stay.
    Last edited by brdempsey69; 12-03-2012 at 12:32 AM.

  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthewschiefs View Post
    This is laughable coming from someone who takes an article that just has blind stats does not include some pretty BIG factors as the gospel just to say Cassel sucks. Anyone who dares to think that lack of talent around a guy in one of the years stated the fact that one of the years included in the article this team almost broke the record for dropped passes might be a factor in some of those stats being as bad as they are just has a "love fest for Cassel" But yet when I talk about Geno Smith only being 6-5 all of a sudden you want to talk about the poor defense around him and all that. You want to include all the factors you refuse to listen to with Cassel for your guy. Your double standard is clear.
    I don't know what your point is here...Cassel does suck.
    Diehard Fan Living in Packer Territory

    Co-Founder: 2 Mugs Fantasy Football -- a site about and football!

  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryfo18 View Post
    I don't know what your point is here...Cassel does suck.
    My point is that you're only willing to point out Cassel's mistakes while ignoring the mistakes by others. He's the guy you don't like but for the guy you like you suddenly want to look at the mistakes by others and include them as to why the team didn't do as well. You have the standards for Cassel in which if the team loses he's to blame and then there's the standard for the guy you like in which you're willing to say they lost as a TEAM.

    I will give an example. For this team you have excused the Piss poor defense at times because of all the turnovers. Even though there are a number of Turnovers that are not Cassel's and a number more where Cassel did his job the WR didn't catch the ball and the defender ended up with it so you excuse the bad defense we saw at times this year for those losses. In his teams 5 losses in 3 of them Geno Smith turned the ball over. So that excuses the defense for there poor play? I have a feeling that you would disagree with that.

    This is a TEAM game. You say I simplify things when that's what you're doing. Pointing to 1 persons mistake the QBs as to why we have been so bad this year and ignoring the others is just not a fair way to look at things. All you can mostly do is whine and moan about the QB. And hey they have given you reason to for the most part this year. And I have done the same thing on a number of occasions but ignoring the mistakes by others and pointing the finger at 1 guy is just not fair. But it's what you do. Even on a day where the QB played damn good here we are in yet anther thread talking about these horrible qbs. WHY? do we really need ANTHER look at how bad our QBS are thread? IT'S FAR PAST OLD.

  6. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by brdempsey69 View Post
    The problem is, you are wanting an instant superstar at QB & you aren't going to get him. Every QB that the Chiefs have ever drafted since the AFL-NFL re-aligned in 1970 has been a BUST. The successful QB's in KC have always come via FA or trade, including Len Dawson.

    I'm not saying they shouldn't draft a QB next April, in fact, I was one of the first (if not the first) to suggest that they double-dip at the QB position.

    Kansas City Chiefs Forums - View Single Post - Qb of the future?

    Never before have they taken 2 QB's in the draft that I'm aware of since the AFL-NFL re-alignment in 1970. That will NOT guarantee an instant superstar at the QB position, however. Or even a quality QB for that matter. Therefore, Quinn must stay.
    Nope. All I'm asking for is that the Chiefs... somehow... someway... find a way to bring in an average QB. A superstar is not necessary to elevate this team to playoff caliber. That was the point of showing you where each of the other aspects of this team rank compared to the perennial Super Bowl contenders. An average QB would put this team in the playoffs as it stands now. A top 10 QB would put this team in a position to compete for super bowls year in and year out.

  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by texaschief View Post
    Nope. All I'm asking for is that the Chiefs... somehow... someway... find a way to bring in an average QB. A superstar is not necessary to elevate this team to playoff caliber. That was the point of showing you where each of the other aspects of this team rank compared to the perennial Super Bowl contenders. An average QB would put this team in the playoffs as it stands now. A top 10 QB would put this team in a position to compete for super bowls year in and year out.

    Which goes back to what I said about Quinn being an unknown commodity. Rich Gannon was 31 before he became a known commodity. Cassel is a known commodity. Quinn is not.

    And regarding what I highlighted in bold, you had mentioned the O-Line being 14th in the league in sacks given up, but also said they had attempted the fewest passes. Given that they have attempted the fewest passes, shouldn't their ranking be in the top 5 instead of 14th? Given those circumstances, ranking 14th is totally unsatisfactory. And don't blame all that on Cassel, that's just not the case. There were a multitude of occasions where the O-Line literally got ran over. They have played much better the last 2 weeks, however.

  8. #27
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    What I AM saying is that we are going to continue going through head coaches until the QB position is addressed.
    I'd disagree with that. That's like the tail wagging the dog.

    Management & coaching set the tone for everything. If a top flite QB comes to KC, it's because a management/coaching staff enticed him here. Even if you draft him there's no guarantee that he'll play for you (John Elway, Indy...Eli Manning, San Diego).

    I'd agree with Brdempsey on Quinn. He's the only one that's proven himself in any way shape or form this year. And that is not saying much. On Stanzi, I'd disagree. Why not let him play a couple of games, or at least a couple of halves to know for sure if he's a bust or not? If anything we might be saving Quinn from possible injury. If Stanzi shows no improvement, draft two qb's or draft one qb and make a play for Alex Smith.

    I'd disagree with Texaschief about our O-line. We still get dominated by AFC west opponents' D lines. Allen and Stephenson are doing really well, and Winston's proved he's a stand up guy on many levels, but the situation at center needs to be fixed. We might not find a monster center at the #2 or #3 round of the draft but it's much better than having no backup at all. We got lucky with Lilja being able to do the job he did.

  9. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by brdempsey69 View Post
    Which goes back to what I said about Quinn being an unknown commodity. Rich Gannon was 31 before he became a known commodity. Cassel is a known commodity. Quinn is not.

    And regarding what I highlighted in bold, you had mentioned the O-Line being 14th in the league in sacks given up, but also said they had attempted the fewest passes. Given that they have attempted the fewest passes, shouldn't their ranking be in the top 5 instead of 14th? Given those circumstances, ranking 14th is totally unsatisfactory. And don't blame all that on Cassel, that's just not the case. There were a multitude of occasions where the O-Line literally got ran over. They have played much better the last 2 weeks, however.
    THIS THIS AND MORE THIS

    Many want to look at just numbers and stats to say this guy sucks or look at how good this guy is. It's need that easy you have to look at all the factors that go into it.

    The O line has had there moments where they have just looked awful. Injuries have hurt the good news is the rookies are getting some real game time to learn the NFL game. That's going to be a postive going forward.

    We have had bad play across the board this year. when that happens you have to point to the head coach and his staff. Romeo did a great job yesterday I am shocked that he did such a good job. But that hasn't been what we have gotten all year.

  10. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthewschiefs View Post
    My point is that you're only willing to point out Cassel's mistakes while ignoring the mistakes by others. He's the guy you don't like but for the guy you like you suddenly want to look at the mistakes by others and include them as to why the team didn't do as well. You have the standards for Cassel in which if the team loses he's to blame and then there's the standard for the guy you like in which you're willing to say they lost as a TEAM.

    I will give an example. For this team you have excused the Piss poor defense at times because of all the turnovers. Even though there are a number of Turnovers that are not Cassel's and a number more where Cassel did his job the WR didn't catch the ball and the defender ended up with it so you excuse the bad defense we saw at times this year for those losses. In his teams 5 losses in 3 of them Geno Smith turned the ball over. So that excuses the defense for there poor play? I have a feeling that you would disagree with that.

    This is a TEAM game. You say I simplify things when that's what you're doing. Pointing to 1 persons mistake the QBs as to why we have been so bad this year and ignoring the others is just not a fair way to look at things. All you can mostly do is whine and moan about the QB. And hey they have given you reason to for the most part this year. And I have done the same thing on a number of occasions but ignoring the mistakes by others and pointing the finger at 1 guy is just not fair. But it's what you do. Even on a day where the QB played damn good here we are in yet anther thread talking about these horrible qbs. WHY? do we really need ANTHER look at how bad our QBS are thread? IT'S FAR PAST OLD.

    Yeah well when the offense continually puts 6 points on the board I put the blame on Cassel. He gets the lengthy contract and the big money.

    He should take the responsbility, at the end of the day it's his job to manage the game, move the chains, and put points on the board. The only time he did that this year was in the first half against atlanta.

    It's up to the qb to offset mistakes made by his teammates, that is why he gets the most money, if the starting qb can't do that then he shouldn't be playing.
    Last edited by MyManHali; 12-03-2012 at 08:01 PM.

  11. #30
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    I can't stand Quinn even in college.. him sitting in the green room draft say getting passed over and over..Lmao.

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