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Thread: Questions about Defense

  1. #1
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    Hi, I'm an Andy Reid fan from Philly (started a couple other threads) and a new Chiefs fan. I'm trying to study up on your roster. Can some of you help me out with some of this?

    It looks like you have several very high draft picks on defense who look like busts. Here are my impressions, without knowing much about the Chiefs. You guys can tell me if I'm on the right/wrong track.

    Tyson Jackson: Looks like a bust. Some one who physically would be ideally suited to play 3-4 DE, but has not been in the least bit productive. Probably makes a lot of money. Some one I'm guessing Reid will get rid of when he cleans house. Am I missing something with him? Does he have any redeeming qualities?

    Glen Dorsey: Looks like a bust, but possibly miscast. If Reid brings in a 4-3 DC, possibly Dorsey could excel in that role. He looks like he has an enormous contract. I'm guessing that if they remain a 3-4 team he might get cut. If they switch to a 4-3, the new GM might ask him to take a pay cut, restructure and then compete as a 4-3 DT. Am I reading his situation correctly?

    Dontari Poe: My Eagles drafted DT Fletcher Cox one pick later, who turned out to be a stud. Poe looks like some one who could only play 3-4 NT. Does he have the quickness and motor to play 4-3 DT? Reid likes defensive linemen with "motors" who are relentless on every down. If they switch schemes, I could picture him as trade bait. What are the impressions of him?

    Tamba Hali: I'm a Penn State grad. Love this guy. He's an Andy Reid type of guy with the relentless motor. Seems like he could play both 3-4 OLB and 4-3 DE equally well. Is that correct? He's getting up there in age. I just watched Trent Cole hit 30 and fall off considerably this past season. Hope Hali has a little more left in the tank.

    Dereck Johnson: This guy seems like a stud, but he's 30 years old. Does he call the signals on the defense? Wear the helmet with the headset? If they switch to a 4-3, would he hold up well as the MIKE LB?

    Justin Houston: This seems like the type of guy that Reid would want to build his defense around. A talented/productive young guy. Not much of a cap hit. Problem is, what to do with him if they switch to a 4-3? Seems too small to play DE, and too much of a pure pass rusher to play OLB in a 4-3. Does he have experience as a 4-3 DE in college and does he have a frame to bulk up 10-15 pounds?

    I know that Berry and Flowers are good. The other guys in the secondary need to go? Has Berry lived up to expectations?

    Thanks!

  2. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by brdempsey69 View Post
    It is when you consider the current guys were drafted in the top 11 -- 3 of them since 2008. If they can't rush the passer consistently, then it's a waste to take them there at those spots. JJ Watt has illustrated that. I don't care what type of so called 3-4 is being run.

    I'll give a pass on Dorsey, because he was drafted to be 4-3 DT and became a victim of Pioli's folly.

    Ask yourself, if the current guys do not compare to Neil Smith's ability, then why take them that high in the draft? No good reason at all.
    I'm not disagreeing with you that the picks were wasted in this system. I'm not debating that at all. I just think that these guys weren't put in a position to accomplish the things YOU wanted to see from top 5 picks. I still think they're capable of doing what you'd like to see from top 5 picks. They were just doing what the coaches asked them to do... not what the fans and media expected them to do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by texaschief View Post
    I'm not disagreeing with you that the picks were wasted in this system. I'm not debating that at all. I just think that these guys weren't put in a position to accomplish the things YOU wanted to see from top 5 picks. I still think they're capable of doing what you'd like to see from top 5 picks. They were just doing what the coaches asked them to do... not what the fans and media expected them to do.
    Fair enough. Let's hope the new regime will see things differently than Pioli did ( and I believe for certain they will ) & try to get impact players at the top of the draft & solid, productive players in rounds 2 - 7. Pioli's problem was not getting impact players at the top of the draft & many less than desirable selections in later rounds.

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    The only one that really makes me shake my head is Tyson Jackson. That was the only pick I could not at least find one reason to justify.
    "If you need braggin' on, let someone else do it"-my dad


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    Quote Originally Posted by FranciscoD'anconia View Post
    But I can tell you guys this: they're all wrong. Andy Reid is a great coach and you guys in Kansas City are very fortunate to have him. Don't listen to the haters in Philly.
    It does make me feel better about having Reid when I see someone going out of their way to make a statement like that. Welcome to the sea of red. Beware of the pirates (aka raiders).

    My hopes are that Reid doesn't switch to the 4-3. Every opponent in the AFC West has pretty much focused on a passing attack (Manning in Denver, Palmer in Oakland, Rivers in SD) and if you switch back to a defense with less midfield coverage, they're going to take advantage of it.

    If you want to talk about Pioli's draft busts....look no further than Jon Baldwin.

    Yeah Tyson Jackson hasn't impacted the way a first rounder should, but he has steadily improved. Poe wasn't expected to play until midway through the season; He wound up playing a lot more, which is saying something.

    If we're going to get some help on the defense, I'd say go after another shutdown corner to give some depth back to the secondary. We'll need one regardless of whether we run 3-4 or the 4-3.


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    Eydugster, whichever defensive alignment he goes with, Andy Reid values the passing game on both sides of the ball. He will focus on getting this team to learn how to throw the ball and he will focus the defense on learning how to defend the pass. They may give up a few more rushing yards, but he believes (rightly so) that it's a passing league. The teams that win, win by throwing the ball. He knows that. He knows that they will need to defend against it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by texaschief View Post
    Dorsey, Jackson, and Poe did what was asked of them. They stopped the run and kept the O-linemen off the linebackers and allowed them to make plays. Dorsey and Jackson specifically were never asked to provide pressure on the QB. Pioli and Crennel said as much when they were talking about Poe's role going into the season. Both Jackson and Dorsey showed incredible ability for making plays behind the line of scrimmage while playing in the SEC at LSU. The defensive scheme they've been playing in the last 3 or 4 years has not been conducive to their talents for making such plays. That's why you see DJ making so many plays when he shoots the gaps... he's able to make those plays because the D-linemen are doing their jobs.

    That being said, I don't think Jackson has a place on a 4-3 defense and with his salary ballooning up to 14M this season, I could see a trade, release, or perhaps a re-structure coming for him.

    Dorsey has all the tools to be an elite pass-rushing DT in the form of Warren Sapp or Albert Haynesworth. He just wasn't in the right system to show that ability.

    Hali is still a top 5 pass rusher in this league. He didn't "lose a step." Hali was double-teamed and sometimes triple teamed EVERY week. The opposing offenses did a great job neutralizing Hali. They could afford to do that because the Chiefs rarely blitzed and didn't get pressure from anywhere other than Houston on the other side. It may have LOOKED like Hali "lost a step," but in reality, the offense couldn't stay on the field and the truth was Hali and the rest of the defense was absolutely gassed for most of the season. Put an offense who can play with a lead or at the very least give the defense a breather and you'll see the Chiefs as a top 10 or even top 5 defense. There's way too much talent on that defense for them NOT to be a dominant defense.

    Hali, Johnson, Berry, Dorsey, Jackson, and Poe are all 1st round picks. Houston and Flowers SHOULD have been 1st round picks. There's a TON of talent on this defense... don't worry.

    You need to tell a player he needs to put pressure on the qb?Jackson was such of a waste, no chance he is on the roster next year.

    Depth is still a major problem with this defense, especially the CB position.

  8. #27
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    Speaking of depth, what was the injury situation like last year? For example, 9 out of 11 Eagles starters on offense were either on IR or out for an extended period this past year and the team, despite the bad record, still moved the ball reasonably well because there was some depth.

    The Chiefs were 2-14. Was that due to injury? What happens when guys go down, which they inevitably will? Can you afford to lose players the caliber of Jason Peters, Desean Jackson and LeSean McCoy all at the same time, plus a bunch of other guys, and still keep ticking?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FranciscoD'anconia View Post
    Speaking of depth, what was the injury situation like last year? For example, 9 out of 11 Eagles starters on offense were either on IR or out for an extended period this past year and the team, despite the bad record, still moved the ball reasonably well because there was some depth.

    The Chiefs were 2-14. Was that due to injury? What happens when guys go down, which they inevitably will? Can you afford to lose players the caliber of Jason Peters, Desean Jackson and LeSean McCoy all at the same time, plus a bunch of other guys, and still keep ticking?
    There were injuries, but nothing major. The Chiefs sucked because of the guys throwing the football.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Three7s View Post
    There were injuries, but nothing major. The Chiefs sucked because of the guys throwing the football.
    Okay 2 and 14 one player does not make. If brad Johnson or Trent filter can win a freaking Super Bowl we can all agree its just not one guy. Hell even the mighty Rex Grossman has been to a Super Bowl. Yes the QB position was the WEAKEST and and average QB may have squeaked us out a few more wins.

    But for Christs sake even Jamaal Charles was making careless turnovers. It was just one disaster of a season. NOT ALL BUT ALOT OF THE TURNOVERS WERE THE FAULT OF THE WRS.

    The discipline on this team just wasn't there. The stupid mistakes this team made. Between the turnover or the penalty most of it was due to the inept coaching staff. This was THE worst coaching staff in the league. A good coach and we have 6 wins. A good QB we make the playoffs I get it. But damn we made flat out stupid mistakes all season long. No improvement whatsoever save the D until the Denver game.

    The poor qb play was still too much to overcome. But it wasn't all due to one position.

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    Your right about everything but Flowers being good he is probably a 2 or 3 cb definetly not a starter.

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