Questions about Defense

[FranciscoD'anconia]

Hi, I'm an Andy Reid fan from Philly (started a couple other threads) and a new Chiefs fan. I'm trying to study up on your roster. Can some of you help me out with some of this?

It looks like you have several very high draft picks on defense who look like busts. Here are my impressions, without knowing much about the Chiefs. You guys can tell me if I'm on the right/wrong track.

Tyson Jackson: Looks like a bust. Some one who physically would be ideally suited to play 3-4 DE, but has not been in the least bit productive. Probably makes a lot of money. Some one I'm guessing Reid will get rid of when he cleans house. Am I missing something with him? Does he have any redeeming qualities?

Glen Dorsey: Looks like a bust, but possibly miscast. If Reid brings in a 4-3 DC, possibly Dorsey could excel in that role. He looks like he has an enormous contract. I'm guessing that if they remain a 3-4 team he might get cut. If they switch to a 4-3, the new GM might ask him to take a pay cut, restructure and then compete as a 4-3 DT. Am I reading his situation correctly?

Dontari Poe: My Eagles drafted DT Fletcher Cox one pick later, who turned out to be a stud. Poe looks like some one who could only play 3-4 NT. Does he have the quickness and motor to play 4-3 DT? Reid likes defensive linemen with "motors" who are relentless on every down. If they switch schemes, I could picture him as trade bait. What are the impressions of him?

Tamba Hali: I'm a Penn State grad. Love this guy. He's an Andy Reid type of guy with the relentless motor. Seems like he could play both 3-4 OLB and 4-3 DE equally well. Is that correct? He's getting up there in age. I just watched Trent Cole hit 30 and fall off considerably this past season. Hope Hali has a little more left in the tank.

Dereck Johnson: This guy seems like a stud, but he's 30 years old. Does he call the signals on the defense? Wear the helmet with the headset? If they switch to a 4-3, would he hold up well as the MIKE LB?

Justin Houston: This seems like the type of guy that Reid would want to build his defense around. A talented/productive young guy. Not much of a cap hit. Problem is, what to do with him if they switch to a 4-3? Seems too small to play DE, and too much of a pure pass rusher to play OLB in a 4-3. Does he have experience as a 4-3 DE in college and does he have a frame to bulk up 10-15 pounds?

I know that Berry and Flowers are good. The other guys in the secondary need to go? Has Berry lived up to expectations?

Thanks!

[ctchiefsfan]

but I would expect him to go back to what used to work for him and find a guy who's gonna wanna bring it.

The more you tell us about Reid, the more I like his selection as HC.

[MyManHali]

Okay 2 and 14 one player does not make. If brad Johnson or Trent filter can win a freaking Super Bowl we can all agree its just not one guy. Hell even the mighty Rex Grossman has been to a Super Bowl. Yes the QB position was the WEAKEST and and average QB may have squeaked us out a few more wins.

But for Christs sake even Jamaal Charles was making careless turnovers. It was just one disaster of a season. NOT ALL BUT ALOT OF THE TURNOVERS WERE THE FAULT OF THE WRS.

The discipline on this team just wasn't there. The stupid mistakes this team made. Between the turnover or the penalty most of it was due to the inept coaching staff. This was THE worst coaching staff in the league. A good coach and we have 6 wins. A good QB we make the playoffs I get it. But damn we made flat out stupid mistakes all season long. No improvement whatsoever save the D until the Denver game.

The poor qb play was still too much to overcome. But it wasn't all due to one position.

A Trent Dilfer/Brad Johnson wouldn't win you a super bowl in today's NFL, it is a passing league. That is why I am thrilled we have someone who is primarily a pass heavy coach.

[MyManHali]

Yes. Especially if his primary job is gap control and stopping the run.

Why is this so hard to understand? Y'all are all acting like a Dlineman's job is ONLY to get to the QB and THAT'S it. Let's pretend that IS their job. You've got 2 OLBs and 3 Dlinemen rushing to get to the QB. The offense decides to run a draw or screen. Now, they have a shifty RB either one on one at the 2nd level or they're in wide open space at the third level. By then, it's at least a 20 yard gain... EVERY TIME! Put Dexter McCluster one on one in the open field against the best LB in the league (insert name here) and McCluster wins EVERY time.

It would be an OCs dream to play against a defense that constantly rushed 5 players. Are you kidding me? The Chiefs usually rushed 3 guys and used the DLinemen to control the LOS. Y'all, this is football 101. Tyson Jackson wasn't drafted to be JJ Watt. Dorsey, WAS drafted to be Warren Sapp, but again, this is why I was saying a Pioli hire was bad from the beginning. This defense was built to run a 4-3. Dorsey is out of position in the 3-4 and if he ever gets to play for a 4-3 defense, you'll see what he's capable of. Tyson Jackson should've been a late first round pick. He was never valued to be a top 5 pick. But, Pioli didn't give a rat's *** about value in the draft... and this team shows it.

I find it incredibly hard to understand why you would defend such a waste of a pick. His only job is to hold his position against the run. It's not like this guy penetrated the line and got unbelievable pressure on the RB. The fact is he was taken higher than Watt and paid more money.

In the end, the pick was trash, bottomline.

[Eydugstr]

Speaking of depth, what was the injury situation like last year? For example, 9 out of 11 Eagles starters on offense were either on IR or out for an extended period this past year and the team, despite the bad record, still moved the ball reasonably well because there was some depth.

The Chiefs were 2-14. Was that due to injury? What happens when guys go down, which they inevitably will? Can you afford to lose players the caliber of Jason Peters, Desean Jackson and LeSean McCoy all at the same time, plus a bunch of other guys, and still keep ticking?

Actually 2011 was the year we got riddled with injuries. We lost Charles, Moeaki, and Berry. 2012 we stayed fairly healthy, with the exception of Hudson. We just played like crud under some very questionable coaching.

[texaschief]

I find it incredibly hard to understand why you would defend such a waste of a pick. His only job is to hold his position against the run. It's not like this guy penetrated the line and got unbelievable pressure on the RB. The fact is he was taken higher than Watt and paid more money.

In the end, the pick was trash, bottomline.

I'm not defending the pick. I HATED the pick. It represented HORRIBLE value for the player we were getting and what his responsibilities were going to be. Feel free to search the archives and look at my comments after the Jackson pick. Hell, look at my comments when Pioli's name was being tossed around. Everything I was saying was going to happen with a 3-4 minded Pioli, came to pass. We wasted a TON of picks when they should've continued building the 4-3 that was already in place.

I'm not defending the pick. I am defending the player. JJ Watt and Tyson Jackson aren't suppose to produce in the same fashion. Just because they "play the same position" doesn't mean they had the same responsibilities. Did Tyson Jackson represent horrible value at #3 overall? ABSOLUTELY! But just because he's not JJ Watt does not mean he has ZERO value. For what the Chiefs used him for, he was probably worth a 2nd round pick. So, if you look at the Jackson pick as the Chiefs trading their 1st round pick for absolutely nothing and then look at Jackson as a 2nd round talent... I think he's producing right about where he SHOULD be.

Just because Pioli was stupid enough to take a 2nd round talent at #3 overall does NOT mean Tyson Jackson should just be discarded... ESPECIALLY if we're going to continue running a 3-4. He still contributes at an above average level. It's not like the guy is Ryan Leaf or JaMarcus Russell who hardly contributed to their team. He's more like Robert Gallery... not quite the LT Raiders hoped he'd be, but he still contributes at a high level on the OL. I'd like to see what Jackson could do if he's turned loose on the QB. But by Crennel's own admission, the DL was not used in that capacity.

[ctchiefsfan]

I'm not defending the pick. I HATED the pick. It represented HORRIBLE value for the player we were getting and what his responsibilities were going to be. Feel free to search the archives and look at my comments after the Jackson pick. Hell, look at my comments when Pioli's name was being tossed around. Everything I was saying was going to happen with a 3-4 minded Pioli, came to pass. We wasted a TON of picks when they should've continued building the 4-3 that was already in place.

I'm not defending the pick. I am defending the player. JJ Watt and Tyson Jackson aren't suppose to produce in the same fashion. Just because they "play the same position" doesn't mean they had the same responsibilities. Did Tyson Jackson represent horrible value at #3 overall? ABSOLUTELY! But just because he's not JJ Watt does not mean he has ZERO value. For what the Chiefs used him for, he was probably worth a 2nd round pick. So, if you look at the Jackson pick as the Chiefs trading their 1st round pick for absolutely nothing and then look at Jackson as a 2nd round talent... I think he's producing right about where he SHOULD be.

Just because Pioli was stupid enough to take a 2nd round talent at #3 overall does NOT mean Tyson Jackson should just be discarded... ESPECIALLY if we're going to continue running a 3-4. He still contributes at an above average level. It's not like the guy is Ryan Leaf or JaMarcus Russell who hardly contributed to their team. He's more like Robert Gallery... not quite the LT Raiders hoped he'd be, but he still contributes at a high level on the OL. I'd like to see what Jackson could do if he's turned loose on the QB. But by Crennel's own admission, the DL was not used in that capacity.

Well put! Under Pioli we have drafted a number of players far higher than we should have and because of that they have been called "Busts" when they are in fact decent players who contribute to the team at a decent level. It is not the fault of the player that a GM overestimated his value and spends too high a draft pick for him.....that kind of mistake is 100% owned by the GM.

[MyManHali]

I'm not defending the pick. I HATED the pick. It represented HORRIBLE value for the player we were getting and what his responsibilities were going to be. Feel free to search the archives and look at my comments after the Jackson pick. Hell, look at my comments when Pioli's name was being tossed around. Everything I was saying was going to happen with a 3-4 minded Pioli, came to pass. We wasted a TON of picks when they should've continued building the 4-3 that was already in place.

I'm not defending the pick. I am defending the player. JJ Watt and Tyson Jackson aren't suppose to produce in the same fashion. Just because they "play the same position" doesn't mean they had the same responsibilities. Did Tyson Jackson represent horrible value at #3 overall? ABSOLUTELY! But just because he's not JJ Watt does not mean he has ZERO value. For what the Chiefs used him for, he was probably worth a 2nd round pick. So, if you look at the Jackson pick as the Chiefs trading their 1st round pick for absolutely nothing and then look at Jackson as a 2nd round talent... I think he's producing right about where he SHOULD be.

Just because Pioli was stupid enough to take a 2nd round talent at #3 overall does NOT mean Tyson Jackson should just be discarded... ESPECIALLY if we're going to continue running a 3-4. He still contributes at an above average level. It's not like the guy is Ryan Leaf or JaMarcus Russell who hardly contributed to their team. He's more like Robert Gallery... not quite the LT Raiders hoped he'd be, but he still contributes at a high level on the OL. I'd like to see what Jackson could do if he's turned loose on the QB. But by Crennel's own admission, the DL was not used in that capacity.

How many pounds of fried chicken do you think Tyson Jackson ate today?

[texaschief]

Probably not as many as Poe

[Justin5772002]

How many pounds of fried chicken do you think Tyson Jackson ate today?

I dare u to ask him face to face