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Thread: Game 6 thoughts

  1. #1
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    Default Game 6 thoughts


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    The good

    THE DEFENSE Don't need to go into detail we all know what they did.

    THE FREAKING LOUDEST CROWD EVER. They made an impact in the game it was clear as day. Great to see that at arrowhead again

    THE BAD
    The offense from top to bottom had a bad game. Alex Smith clearly let the offensive line struggles get in his head and as a QB you can't do that. The WRs most the game weren't getting open and the O line stunk most the game.

    The defense the one thing that is bad there is they continue to have trouble with Qbs that can run. They have to improve on that but that's about the only thing you can say they have to work on
    ​BAN ROY


  2. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthewschiefs View Post
    Roy I really don't mean to single you out here I've seen others do it and I think I've done it myself before on here but I don't think you can say someone is lying when giving there opinion or there outlook. I don't think hayvern lied at all. He has a different outlook. He and many others think you can compare stats to compare players. That's there outlook and they have every right to it.

    I of course disagree with the outlook I think you have to look at the situation as a whole. Like you. You brought out a number of good points and I will add one more that I've said before. Show me one QB in the history of the NFL that would chose there first head coach to be Mike Nolan over Bill Beilcheck. You won't find one.

    But because Hayvern has that outlook doesn't mean he is lying. I think that's something that falls into the opinion one has
    I understand what you are saying Matthew and I would have never said Heyvern was lying if he hadn't specifically said "Alex is nearly the same exact player in terms of numbers. Look at their career numbers and tell me I am lying." I was using HIS words in a tongue-in-cheek manner to emphasize my point. Notice, I never called Heyvern a liar. I just said that particular statement was untrue (a lie).

    Going further, some things are differences of opinion and some statements are untrue. If I say "chocolate ice cream tastes better than strawberry ice cream" that is an opinion. If I say "the earth is flat" or "man never landed on the moon," those are lies. Heyvern is using career numbers to support his assertion that Cassel is just as good now as Alex Smith is. That is completely untrue. If he was just as good, he would be currently and recently putting up similar numbers and he is not. Career numbers can be used to tell you how good a player used to be or to compare two players over the course of their careers, but they are completely irrelevant for comparing how good two players are today. You wouldn't look at Payton Manning's rookie numbers and say he is not a good QB because of them.

    And that's not an opinion; it's a fact.
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    And that is my point Roy. When you look at the two I assert that either Cassel is not as bad as many thinks he was, or Smith is not as good as many thinks he is.

    Smith had a good year last year, at least until he got injured, Cassel has had a number of good seasons in the past. You cannot compare them today as Cassel is no longer a starter and Smith is. So comparing them today is not a good comparison. As I also said in my last post, if Cassel continues to play as starter while Ponder is out, then you will have your comparison.

    As it stands right now, you really cannot compare this year. You can compare last year but that is a small sample set for both players as they both had a shortened year because of injury, so is that really fair either?

    I maintain that both players have had similar careers even though Smith was more a starter earlier on and Cassel was not.

    There are a lot of other intangibles that others would bring to the discussion, coaching, players around them, and so on. All of that is true, but in the end that is the way it is in team sports.

    IN the end, I still maintain that the fanbase gave Cassel a bum rap, we treated the man like crap when in my opinion, he was as good as Smith is today. We might have ruined him with all the coaching nonsense (Edwards, Haley and the Walrus). I am hoping that Reid can make Smith the player that San Francisco hoped he was when they drafted him.


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  4. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hayvern View Post
    Again, I stand by my comparison, I have not swallowed the Koolaid on Smith. He is missing receivers that are open, he is getting happy feet, he overthrows any pass that is over 20 yards and his ball placement on shorter passes is problematic at best. There are others out there that see these things, why do you think that the Chiefs still do not get any respect that you guys wish we would? The offense is not putting up the numbers we should be.

    It is always the offensive line. I have been on the offensive line thing for years, and yes, we still have issues with the line, no doubt about it, but your quarterback has a part in that as well does he not?

    You guys help to make my position for me. You don't want to compare careers eh? When and if we see Cassel play more games, then it will become more relevant to compare today's numbers, but you really cannot compare this season. You can compare last season if you like and yes, Smith had a much better season last year, but then again, let's look at our coaching situation last year for Cassel and put that into perspective.

    Additionally, if Smith was having such a great season last year, then what happened with him and his job at San Francisco last year? He lost his job last year after the injury, that has to be put into the mix as well.

    Here is what my real position is for you guys and I think you need to look at yourselves long and hard. If you are going to be all excited about Smith and you think you have your QOF, then you should re-evaluate your opinion on Cassel because Cassel was not that bad in comparison. Anyway you cut it, those two guys are not night and day between each other.

    To me, neither of these guys are the quarterback we need. In two years, I predict we will be just like Houston when Matt Shaub went down this last week. We have already been there when Cassel went down so we are clearly not above it. I hope I am wrong, but we have an average quarterback with an above average defense to keep him in the game.

    I agree with a lot of what you're saying

    Here's the thing I really don't think Cassel was that far off from being a good qb. He was just missing that little something

    Smith from what I have seen has 1 HUGE thing that Cassel didn't he has turned it on in the late stages. He has always when needed in the 4th got the job done. Cassel didn't. After the defense had that big hiccup in the 3rd against the titians Smith didn't sweat it he took them right down the field and got the lead back. That's not something we saw from Cassel very often. When the game is on the line the offense has seemed to turn it up. I have been sitting wondering where has this offense been a number of times. That's something that doesn't come easy in QBs and it's part of the reason Smith has the high winning % he does over the past few years.

    The point you made about the coaching Cassel had last year is exactly why I don't feel it's fair to really compare. They have both has stuff that worked for them at certain times. They have never been in the same situation
    ​BAN ROY


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    Quote Originally Posted by TopekaRoy View Post
    I understand what you are saying Matthew and I would have never said Heyvern was lying if he hadn't specifically said "Alex is nearly the same exact player in terms of numbers. Look at their career numbers and tell me I am lying." I was using HIS words in a tongue-in-cheek manner to emphasize my point. Notice, I never called Heyvern a liar. I just said that particular statement was untrue (a lie).

    Going further, some things are differences of opinion and some statements are untrue. If I say "chocolate ice cream tastes better than strawberry ice cream" that is an opinion. If I say "the earth is flat" or "man never landed on the moon," those are lies. Heyvern is using career numbers to support his assertion that Cassel is just as good now as Alex Smith is. That is completely untrue. If he was just as good, he would be currently and recently putting up similar numbers and he is not. Career numbers can be used to tell you how good a player used to be or to compare two players over the course of their careers, but they are completely irrelevant for comparing how good two players are today. You wouldn't look at Payton Manning's rookie numbers and say he is not a good QB because of them.

    And that's not an opinion; it's a fact.
    I guess your right I didn't think of it that way. My bad it's just something I've seen many do that has bugged me In this case you didn't
    ​BAN ROY


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    Quote Originally Posted by matthewschiefs View Post
    Here's the thing with Bowe and why I'm so hard on him and don't put as much on Smith as on Bowe

    Bowe has always had games where he just didn't show up here are just a few

    2010 in the 2 games against the Chargers he had a combined 2 catches for 16 yards he had 2 catches for 33 yards against the colts and dropped a td pass I remember being so pissed at him for that drop

    2011 he had 2 catches for 17 yards against both the bills and the donkeys

    This is a habit that Bowe has..

    This year has been more then the past so it's very fair to put a little on Smith but Bowe has a history of coming up small
    the donkeys game i let slide....It was champ bailey comvering him, i hate the donkeys but Champ is really good

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hayvern View Post
    And that is my point Roy. When you look at the two I assert that either Cassel is not as bad as many thinks he was, or Smith is not as good as many thinks he is.
    I agree that many of Cassel's difficulties weren't all his fault. The O-line and coaching played big parts in his poor performance. He is better than many give him credit for, but not as good as Smith.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hayvern View Post
    Smith had a good year last year, at least until he got injured, Cassel has had a number of good seasons in the past. You cannot compare them today as Cassel is no longer a starter and Smith is. So comparing them today is not a good comparison. As I also said in my last post, if Cassel continues to play as starter while Ponder is out, then you will have your comparison.

    As it stands right now, you really cannot compare this year. You can compare last year but that is a small sample set for both players as they both had a shortened year because of injury, so is that really fair either?
    True, but they played almost the same number of games last year--10 vs. 9. Admittedly, Smith was on a much better team in 2012 and that contributed to his better performance. I also looked at the last 3 years and that is a large enough sample size to see that Smith clearly outperformed Cassel. There is a good reason Cassel is not starting. He's not that good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hayvern View Post
    I maintain that both players have had similar careers even though Smith was more a starter earlier on and Cassel was not.
    The totals are similar but I would maintain that their careers are not. Smith's best years have been 2011, 2012 and 2013. Cassel's best years were in 2008 and 2010.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hayvern View Post
    There are a lot of other intangibles that others would bring to the discussion, coaching, players around them, and so on. All of that is true, but in the end that is the way it is in team sports.
    All of that is absolutely true, but you can only judge a player based on how he performs in the situation he is in. Would Cassel have put up similar numbers to Smith if he was in San Francisco the last 3 years and vice-versa? We can only guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hayvern View Post
    IN the end, I still maintain that the fanbase gave Cassel a bum rap, we treated the man like crap when in my opinion, he was as good as Smith is today. We might have ruined him with all the coaching nonsense (Edwards, Haley and the Walrus). I am hoping that Reid can make Smith the player that San Francisco hoped he was when they drafted him.
    And that is precisely MY point. Cassel is not as good as he was and Smith is better than he was. The Chiefs coaching staff and the lack of talent around Matt probably did ruin him. I don't know if he can turn it around in Minnesota (or somewhere else) or not. The "ghosts in his head" from his time here may never go away. Only time will tell.

    I like Cassel and I am rooting for him to get better, but at this point Smith is a much better QB than he is. And now is what counts.

    Good post, Hayvern.
    Last edited by TopekaRoy; 10-16-2013 at 06:36 PM.
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    I'm with vern in a way. I've said before, if something is to go wrong during a game, smith won't win you the game.

    Game winning drives from Smith (edit: when the team is down and smith has to put the team on his back....doe)
    -Playoff game against the Saints
    -
    -
    -



    It would be nice to finally see this team win and win consistently (spelt that wrong i bet) and make playoffs and win consistenly. If we get to the playoffs and lose the first game.....its just another playoff with no win and the trend continues. But as always, we are at week 7, 10 games to go, playofffs don't happen for another 11 or 12

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    Quote Originally Posted by matthewschiefs View Post
    Roy I really don't mean to single you out here I've seen others do it and I think I've done it myself before on here but I don't think you can say someone is lying when giving there opinion or there outlook. I don't think hayvern lied at all. He has a different outlook. He and many others think you can compare stats to compare players. That's there outlook and they have every right to it.

    I of course disagree with the outlook I think you have to look at the situation as a whole. Like you. You brought out a number of good points and I will add one more that I've said before. Show me one QB in the history of the NFL that would chose there first head coach to be Mike Nolan over Bill Beilcheck. You won't find one.

    But because Hayvern has that outlook doesn't mean he is lying. I think that's something that falls into the opinion one has
    LOL, Spot on. Better yet...Show me a first round draft prospect that thinks his coaching staff should be a revolving door, year after year...

    Alex Smith is a way different player than Matt Cassel was. Alex throws more accurately, and tends to scramble more if he gets the chance, both of which have translated into more 1st downs and scoring in the red zone. I'm not sure if Alex has quite the long ball arm that Cassel had, but then again how often do our recievers get open enough to where we can see Alex trying to throw a deep pass?

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    Quote Originally Posted by doobs_05 View Post
    the donkeys game i let slide....It was champ bailey comvering him, i hate the donkeys but Champ is really good
    ugh...covering

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    Quote Originally Posted by doobs_05 View Post
    I'm with vern in a way. I've said before, if something is to go wrong during a game, smith won't win you the game.

    Game winning drives from Smith (edit: when the team is down and smith has to put the team on his back....doe)
    -Playoff game against the Saints
    -
    -
    -



    It would be nice to finally see this team win and win consistently (spelt that wrong i bet) and make playoffs and win consistenly. If we get to the playoffs and lose the first game.....its just another playoff with no win and the trend continues. But as always, we are at week 7, 10 games to go, playofffs don't happen for another 11 or 12
    Haven't we already had 4 or 5 game clinching late drives or come from behind late drives with Smith behind the wheel this year? How many do you remember with Cassel?

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