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Thread: If the 2013 draftees step up?

  1. #1
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    Default If the 2013 draftees step up?


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    I find myself reading this board and it seems to be in such a panic. Rightfully so maybe, we got destroyed in the first off-season phase of free agency. We do have some holes primarily in depth some with more immediate needs. However if fisher, Kelce, commings, Cooper, Catapano if these guys can step up and some contribute some start and do well. How much stress does that relieve surrounding this team?

    Personally I think this team is not in bad shape and you have to love the freedom and flexibility we have with our first round pick. Ya we are limited with our number of picks but the potential to land any number of players at 23 or lower if we can trade back who can immediately contribute is crazy and at the end of the day that's all you can ask for.

    Bottum line we have to trust what Dorsey and Reid are doing and assume they have a plan until they prove otherwise. I'm excited for draft day because I have absolutely zero idea what te chiefs will do. However all the people that could be available I dot see very many that the chiefs could take and I would be upset because they could all contribute. It's gumna be exciting and I can't wait to see what happens.

  2. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by doobs_05 View Post
    It does get old having a new head coach come in, get the hopes up and then *poof* back to square 1. KC needs to get back to winning West titles (never won that back to back, and it's not that big of a deal, just means you did better than 3 other teams), multiple winning seasons (when was the last time KC went back to back above .500....05-06 and before that 97-98, didn't count 8-8 records which would of been 02-03.) Win playoff games (we all know 20 years), and then finally get that god damn super bowl.

    I don't care that KC didn't sign anyone, they didn't have the money, i just feel from what we lost in FA to who we signed so far this offseason, it doesn't equal itself out, right now. Draft will come and go and we'll discuss who KC picked up and we won't know how good those guys are till the season begins, right now its all about how it looks on paper and just opinions.
    I very much understand the frustration I have had the same frustration. I have gotten into the mindset every year is a new year. Just because last year ended the most painful ending I have sat through doesn't mean this year is going to be the same. Hey if you are a Kansas City Chiefs and Cleveland Indians fan you have to be in that mindset otherwise you would be on suicide watch

  3. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mongo View Post
    Branden Albert B
    Geoff Schwartz B
    Quinton Demps C S, B KR
    Dexter McCluster D WR A- KR
    Akeem Jordan C
    Tyson Jackson B- -- As a classic run stopping 34DE

    That's what we lost. No one great. Still 4 starters and 2 valuable role players.

    Now you tell me how the talent level at those positions was improved. What did KC do replace them?
    See you said it NOTHING GREAT. Now I will agree the talent we brought in isn't great but they can fill in at least part of the roles of what we lost. And then there's the draft we can make up the difference there. That's why I say the offseason is incomplete. If Dorsey drafts well then we will be fine. If not then we will take a step back. That's just how things are going to be

  4. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthewschiefs View Post
    See you said it NOTHING GREAT. Now I will agree the talent we brought in isn't great but they can fill in at least part of the roles of what we lost. And then there's the draft we can make up the difference there. That's why I say the offseason is incomplete. If Dorsey drafts well then we will be fine. If not then we will take a step back. That's just how things are going to be
    I think you have hit the nail on the head. Dorsey is supposed to be in the draft. Not just in the first couple of rounds but also at finding undervalued talent later in the draft. Reid is supposed to be good at getting every bit of talent out of players. If it turns out to be true, at the end of 3-4 drafts we should have one hell of a team. Young, good, inexpensive and plenty of cap space left.

    That is a team that can dominate.

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    Because I'm sick of the character assaults, for the second time, here's what I would have done:

    Extend Eric Berry. Give him a low $1M base with a $10M signing bonus that covers the $11M owed this season. The breakdown is as follows:

    Year Bonus Salary Cap
    1 2.00 1.00 3.00
    2 2.00 5.50 7.50
    3 2.00 7.50 9.50
    4 2.00 9.50 11.50
    5 2.00 13.50 15.50
    6 0.00 10.00 10.00

    This would have freed $8M and kept one of core players under contract for 3-4 years.

    Next I cut Anthony Fasano and Donnie Avery. As per OverTheCap this saves $1.75M.

    Knowing that Tamba Hali will be cut next year I'd restructure $10M of his salary into a signing bonus spread over the next two seasons. I do this knowing that when he is cut next season it costs us $5M+. I'm banking on the usual cap increase buffering for that. This saves another $5M.

    I've effectively created $15M in cap space. Here's how I do or do not spend it.

    I don't bother with Emmanuel Sanders or any other FA. I do this knowing this is a WR rich draft and landing one in R1-3 is a priority.

    I do not extend Alex Smith because I need to see more of him before I make any long term commitment.

    I match the money paid to Geoff Schwartz. Some semblance of continuity on the OL must be preserved. His contract is not unreasonable. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-...eoff-schwartz/

    I sign Alex Mack to an offer sheet. I offer CLE a 2015 R3 not to match. If they match, so be it. Move on. If not I can move Hudson to LG. The traded R3 will be recouped by compensatory picks.

    If I can't land Mack I pursue Jairus Byrd. I work a deal similar to what the Saints offer without the big second year hit. If I can't land him or sign Mack, I pursue Chris Clemons. I'm not comfortable with Husain Abdullah and Sanders Commings at FS.

    Contrary to popular belief these are the only "big-time" FA I'd pursue.

    I don't bother signing Joe Mays or Chris Owens. Same for Vance Walker. I don't think he fits the scheme.

    I still have to pursue depth at tackle and DE but I wait until after the draft to do so.

    In general, I also follow the draft first mentality, but there is a time and place where FA dollars must be spent. There are times when measures must be taken to create the space to do so.
    ...in my opinion

  6. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthewschiefs View Post
    See you said it NOTHING GREAT. Now I will agree the talent we brought in isn't great but they can fill in at least part of the roles of what we lost. And then there's the draft we can make up the difference there. That's why I say the offseason is incomplete. If Dorsey drafts well then we will be fine. If not then we will take a step back. That's just how things are going to be
    Six solid contributors cannot be replaced in one draft. Especially one missing an R2 pick. You don't draft expecting immediate returns. If Dorsey thinks he can we have a problem. I doubt he does.
    ...in my opinion

  7. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mongo View Post
    Because I'm sick of the character assaults, for the second time, here's what I would have done:

    Extend Eric Berry. Give him a low $1M base with a $10M signing bonus that covers the $11M owed this season. The breakdown is as follows:

    Year Bonus Salary Cap
    1 2.00 1.00 3.00
    2 2.00 5.50 7.50
    3 2.00 7.50 9.50
    4 2.00 9.50 11.50
    5 2.00 13.50 15.50
    6 0.00 10.00 10.00

    This would have freed $8M and kept one of core players under contract for 3-4 years.

    Next I cut Anthony Fasano and Donnie Avery. As per OverTheCap this saves $1.75M.

    Knowing that Tamba Hali will be cut next year I'd restructure $10M of his salary into a signing bonus spread over the next two seasons. I do this knowing that when he is cut next season it costs us $5M+. I'm banking on the usual cap increase buffering for that. This saves another $5M.

    I've effectively created $15M in cap space. Here's how I do or do not spend it.

    I don't bother with Emmanuel Sanders or any other FA WR. I do this knowing this is a WR rich draft and landing one in R1-3 is a priority.

    I do not extend Alex Smith because I need to see more of him before I make any long term commitment.

    I match the money paid to Geoff Schwartz. Some semblance of continuity on the OL must be preserved. His contract is not unreasonable. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-...eoff-schwartz/

    I sign Alex Mack to an offer sheet. I offer CLE a 2015 R3 not to match. If they match, so be it. Move on. If not I can move Hudson to LG. The traded R3 will be recouped by compensatory picks.

    If I can't land Mack I pursue Jairus Byrd. I work a deal similar to what the Saints offer without the big second year hit. If I can't land him or I do sign Mack, I pursue Chris Clemons. I'm not comfortable with Husain Abdullah and Sanders Commings at FS.

    Contrary to popular belief these are the only "big-time" FA I'd pursue.

    I don't bother signing Joe Mays or Chris Owens. Same for Vance Walker. I don't think he fits the scheme.

    I still have to pursue depth at tackle and DE but I wait until after the draft to do so.

    In general, I also follow the draft first mentality, but there is a time and place where FA dollars must be spent. There are times when measures must be taken to create the space to do so.
    I made some revisions for clarity.
    ...in my opinion

  8. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mongo View Post
    Six solid contributors cannot be replaced in one draft. Especially one missing an R2 pick. You don't draft expecting immediate returns. If Dorsey thinks he can we have a problem. I doubt he does.
    Thats why we also brought in some low FA. I agree the guys we brought in alone are not good enough to replace the guys we lost but they can fill in some of those roles. The draft if done right can make up the rest of the difference. They wont have to make up losing those guys by themselves it's a combo. Rookies dont come in and play all pro level but they can make some impact. Justin Houston helped out his rookie year some but you have to draft right. That's up to dorsey.

  9. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mongo View Post
    I made some revisions for clarity.
    In fairness Berry would have had to agree to the contract. Dorsey might have tried to do something like that Berry or his agent might have said no. That's part of the unknown to us. It sounds good but that's not to say it's that simple

  10. #99
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    First, Mongo, let me applaud you for coming up with a well-thought-out, reasonable plan. Some thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Mongo View Post
    Extend Eric Berry.

    This would have freed $8M and kept one of core players under contract for 3-4 years.
    I think almost everyone wants to extend Berry, but, like Matthewschiefs said, he has to agree to that. Circumstantial evidence indicates that the Chiefs tried to do just that, but couldn't reach an agreement. If I am going to voluntarily defer $10 million of my own guaranteed money, I would want a substantial raise for doing so. With only one year left on his contract, I suspect Berry is going to go the Brandon Albert route and try to get as much as he can in FA. Your plan also puts a heavy cap burden on the Chiefs down the road.

    So if speculation is correct, then you would try to do what Dorsey tried to do and likely get the same result.

    Next I cut Anthony Fasano and Donnie Avery. As per OverTheCap this saves $1.75M.
    Not a lot of savings there, but every little bit helps right? I would prefer to keep Fasano, at least, but that is just my opinion. At any rate, not pursuing a WR in FA, this move actually makes our receiving corps worse, not better, at least until the draft. This entire discussion centers around the opinion of some that the Chiefs have gotten worse since last year, and here your plan does exactly that.

    Knowing that Tamba Hali will be cut next year ...
    How do you know that? I certainly don't. He is not THAT old. He could be a very good player for the next 4 or 5 years

    I'd restructure $10M of his salary into a signing bonus spread over the next two seasons. I do this knowing that when he is cut next season it costs us $5M+. I'm banking on the usual cap increase buffering for that. This saves another $5M.
    Again you have the same obstacles that you have with Berry, plus you are adding $5M in dead money which is more than our entire cap space for this year. And how do you know that Dorsey didn't already try to restructure Hali's contract? You don't.

    I've effectively created $15M in cap space. Here's how I do or do not spend it.

    I don't bother with Emmanuel Sanders or any other [WR] FA. I do this knowing this is a WR rich draft and landing one in R1-3 is a priority.
    With Sanders falling through, that's just what the Chiefs are doing, so here again, you would do the same thing as Dorsey.

    I do not extend Alex Smith because I need to see more of him before I make any long term commitment.
    Again, same as Dorsey.

    I match the money paid to Geoff Schwartz. Some semblance of continuity on the OL must be preserved. His contract is not unreasonable. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-...eoff-schwartz/
    Agreed. I wish we had done that, but you are just maintaining the status quo. We don't get any worse, but we are no better than we were before he was released, either.

    I sign Alex Mack to an offer sheet. I offer CLE a 2015 R3 not to match. If they match, so be it. Move on. If not I can move Hudson to LG. The traded R3 will be recouped by compensatory picks.

    If I can't land Mack I pursue Jairus Byrd. I work a deal similar to what the Saints offer without the big second year hit. If I can't land him or sign Mack, I pursue Chris Clemons. I'm not comfortable with Husain Abdullah and Sanders Commings at FS.

    Contrary to popular belief these are the only "big-time" FA I'd pursue.

    I don't bother signing Joe Mays or Chris Owens. Same for Vance Walker. I don't think he fits the scheme.
    Like you said, there is no guarantee that we get any of those FAs and we don't get the compensatory picks until 2015 so now we have higher cap hits down the road and no 2nd or 3rd round pick this year if Cleveland agrees.

    I still have to pursue depth at tackle and DE but I wait until after the draft to do so.
    Same as Dorsey.

    So, basically, your whole plan centers around restructuring Berry's and Hali's contracts which Dorsey may or may not have already tried to do, and creates more cap problems down the road. All of this to get either Mack or Clemons, and Bird, maybe, and keeping Schwartz, while losing Fasano, Avery, Mays, Owens, Walker and a 3rd round draft pick. That seems like a lot to give up just so we can spend a lot more money to add two players.

    ...in my opinion.
    ***Official Chiefs Crowd Game Thread Starter***

    Originally Posted by Name Withheld
    I don't think anything that's what wrong is nearly Smiths Falls we have no offense of line I think the coaches are free to call certain place I think he would absolutely do better with a different office of coordinator

  11. #100
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    Correction: I just noticed you said you would give Cleveland a 2015 3rd round pick. I misread that. So we would have the same number of picks this year and lose one of our extra picks, next year.
    ***Official Chiefs Crowd Game Thread Starter***

    Originally Posted by Name Withheld
    I don't think anything that's what wrong is nearly Smiths Falls we have no offense of line I think the coaches are free to call certain place I think he would absolutely do better with a different office of coordinator

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