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Thread: If the 2013 draftees step up?

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    I find myself reading this board and it seems to be in such a panic. Rightfully so maybe, we got destroyed in the first off-season phase of free agency. We do have some holes primarily in depth some with more immediate needs. However if fisher, Kelce, commings, Cooper, Catapano if these guys can step up and some contribute some start and do well. How much stress does that relieve surrounding this team?

    Personally I think this team is not in bad shape and you have to love the freedom and flexibility we have with our first round pick. Ya we are limited with our number of picks but the potential to land any number of players at 23 or lower if we can trade back who can immediately contribute is crazy and at the end of the day that's all you can ask for.

    Bottum line we have to trust what Dorsey and Reid are doing and assume they have a plan until they prove otherwise. I'm excited for draft day because I have absolutely zero idea what te chiefs will do. However all the people that could be available I dot see very many that the chiefs could take and I would be upset because they could all contribute. It's gumna be exciting and I can't wait to see what happens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mongo View Post
    You've been reading the Star.

    http://www.kansascity.com/2014/04/12...-to-trade.html

    I thought brdempsey wrote this article himself.

    You don't trade good young players for the opportunity to try and find other good young players. Removing Eric Berry does not make the Chiefs better now or in the future.

    Sign Eric Berry now.
    Actually no, hadn't read that. Don't get the paper. And I can tell from looking there's no way hades that Brd wrote that - quoting the article...

    Berry is a brand-name in the NFL, a Pro Bowler in each of his three full seasons. He’s versatile, one of only four players last season with at least three sacks, three interceptions and 10 passes defended. His Pro Football Focus grade of 14.5 was tied for third-best among all safeties last season.But you have to give up something to get something. Berry is a good candidate, because his reputation has always been just a bit in front of his actual impact. His peers voted him one of the league’s 100 best players after his rookie year, and he made a Pro Bowl in 2012 despite a mostly mediocre season. Through conversations with NFL personnel men, Berry would likely bring back at least a second- and third-round pick — perhaps more. One scout thought a first-round pick would be possible.

    Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2014/04/12...#storylink=cpy
    If Brd had wrote that, most of the pro-bowl talk would've been replaced with a flow chart showing the location of the ocean floor, John Elway, Pioli draft picks, and whale poop.

    Keep in mind Pioli is taking some of his former draft picks to Atlanta. My point is this, the elements are there, a Berry trade could happen.

  3. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mongo View Post
    You've been reading the Star.

    http://www.kansascity.com/2014/04/12...-to-trade.html

    I thought brdempsey wrote this article himself.

    You don't trade good young players for the opportunity to try and find other good young players. Removing Eric Berry does not make the Chiefs better now or in the future.

    Sign Eric Berry now.
    Yes, I saw that article & it makes perfect sense to those that don't have their head up Berry's arse, like you do. You do trade players that are overhyped, overpaid, and do not impact the game hardly ever.

    Removing Eric Berry doesn't make them a whole lot worse. Everybody saw how minimal his impact was against the Colts and Broncos. They can easily get a suitable replacement by simply drafting a SS in rounds 2 through 7.

    The reality is, signing Eric Berry to the type of contract that you suggested does not make the Chiefs better now or in the future -- it's just flushing dollars down the toilet that can be better spent elsewhere on better players like Alex, Charles, Houston, and Poe.

    I hope they don't resign Berry & let him walk just like they did with Albert.

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    Do u guys think Berrys impact would have been greater and more noticable if we had a decent safety opposite of him. If I was a QB or a coach why on earth would I ever test Berry if I know the guy on the other side is a far inferior player.

    Just food for thought. What do u guys think?

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    Quote Originally Posted by KCWildcat3 View Post
    Do u guys think Berrys impact would have been greater and more noticable if we had a decent safety opposite of him. If I was a QB or a coach why on earth would I ever test Berry if I know the guy on the other side is a far inferior player.

    Just food for thought. What do u guys think?
    Didn't stop Luck and Fleener from going after Berry in the playoff game in timely fashion. Of course, it didn't help when Flowers went down and TJ Hilton just tore up the rest of the Chiefs secondary.

    Berry is OK to a point. But, he's not the "be all, end all" of Chiefs players & for people to talk about him like he's the 2nd coming of Joe Montana in his prime, is just silly.

    My point is, that signing him to a long-term extension like Mongo suggested is ludicrous. The Chiefs franchise is NOT about Eric Berry. In case anyone hasn't noticed, Pioli is no longer the GM. It's John Dorsey, and he's already said that he will build the Chiefs from front to back and inside out through the draft -- meaning that he's more likely to take a Defensive Front 7 player with the top draft pick than other positions.

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    I could see the value in trading Berry if we could unload his salary and get, say, a 2nd, 3rd and 6th pick for him, but I don't think anyone would be willing to do that. Anything less and I would very nervous about it. We literally have no back-up at SS. Abdullah is listed as a FS and Commings is a CB and we have no idea what we have in Commings. I would be a little more comfortable with the idea if we weren't already in need of drafting a FS. If we did make the trade, we would almost have to take a SS and FS in two of the first 3 rounds and hope our first pick isn't a bust.

    I'm a firm believer that a strong pass rush makes the secondary better and I would like to beef up the o-line in the draft, but if we lose Berry, already needing to replace Lewis, our draft strategy would have to change. Having a weak or unproven defensive backfield is NOT a good idea in a division with Manning and Rivers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopekaRoy View Post
    I could see the value in trading Berry if we could unload his salary and get, say, a 2nd, 3rd and 6th pick for him, but I don't think anyone would be willing to do that. Anything less and I would very nervous about it. We literally have no back-up at SS. Abdullah is listed as a FS and Commings is a CB and we have no idea what we have in Commings. I would be a little more comfortable with the idea if we weren't already in need of drafting a FS. If we did make the trade, we would almost have to take a SS and FS in two of the first 3 rounds and hope our first pick isn't a bust.

    I'm a firm believer that a strong pass rush makes the secondary better and I would like to beef up the o-line in the draft, but if we lose Berry, already needing to replace Lewis, our draft strategy would have to change. Having a weak or unproven defensive backfield is NOT a good idea in a division with Manning and Rivers.
    Exactamundo. What is Ed Reed without the front seven in BAL? What is Polamalu without all of the Steelers upfront over the years?

    Just because rules have made it impossible to hold coverage without a pass rush doesn't mean you can just put anyone back there. SEA has proven that the safeties can be an integral part of the defense.

    You can't get fair value for EB in a trade. So don't do it.
    ...in my opinion

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mongo View Post
    Exactamundo. What is Ed Reed without the front seven in BAL? What is Polamalu without all of the Steelers upfront over the years?
    Which clearly illustrates that the Safety position & specifically Eric Berry aren't as important as you'd like to think they are & just how ludicrous it is to draft them in the top-10 or pay them 10 mill a season.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mongo View Post
    Just because rules have made it impossible to hold coverage without a pass rush doesn't mean you can just put anyone back there. SEA has proven that the safeties can be an integral part of the defense.
    Seattle also proved in their SB win that pass rushers are still needed regardless of who's playing back there -- hence why they signed Avril and Bennett prior to the 2013. It was pressure from the Defensive front 7 by Seattle that was the biggest reason the Hawks effectively shackled the Donks Offense.

    And, if Berry were on Seattle's roster, he would be a backup behind Chancellor and Thomas & with that being the case, there is no way on this green earth anyone can justify the Chiefs continuing to pay Berry 10 mill a season once his rookie contract expires. 5 or 6 mill a year at the most for Berry would be more than reasonable and if he doesn't want that, then he can take a hike -- same as Albert.

    I'm suspecting the Chiefs are already looking at drafting his replacement either this year or next season.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mongo View Post
    You can't get fair value for EB in a trade. So don't do it.
    Rubbish. A 2nd rounder from Atlanta in the 2014 draft would be perfectly fair value. But, as TR pointed out, Berry's replacement isn't there..................YET !!

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    Quote Originally Posted by brdempsey69 View Post
    Rubbish. A 2nd rounder from Atlanta in the 2014 draft would be perfectly fair value. But, as TR pointed out, Berry's replacement isn't there..................YET !!
    And see that's the problem. You probably can't get more than a 2nd rounder for him and if we could replace him with a 2nd or 3rd round pick, why wouldn't a team just draft a SS in that spot rather than take on his $10M+ salary?

    I agree that he is way overpaid. I'd go as high as 4 yrs, $25M. Say, 5, 5, 6, and 7 with a $2M signing bonus. Then we could cut him in year 4 and save $7.5 million with prorated bonus. But he could probably get more than that on the open market, so I say keep him one more year and then let him walk.

    ... Unless someone is dumb enough to offer a 2nd, 3rd, and 6th pick for him. Then jump on it!
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    Quote Originally Posted by TopekaRoy View Post
    And see that's the problem. You probably can't get more than a 2nd rounder for him and if we could replace him with a 2nd or 3rd round pick, why wouldn't a team just draft a SS in that spot rather than take on his $10M+ salary?

    I agree that he is way overpaid. I'd go as high as 4 yrs, $25M. Say, 5, 5, 6, and 7 with a $2M signing bonus. Then we could cut him in year 4 and save $7.5 million with prorated bonus. But he could probably get more than that on the open market, so I say keep him one more year and then let him walk.

    ... Unless someone is dumb enough to offer a 2nd, 3rd, and 6th pick for him. Then jump on it!
    All good points.

    Let us consider the DeSean Jackson situation in Philly and his 10 mill a season contract he had in Philly. What happened? Nobody was willing to trade for him & the Eagles cut him and will get nothing in return. Jackson is a far bigger commodity & more of an impact player than Berry is and it's not even close.

    So it's logical, like you are suggesting , to let Berry walk and possibly get a compensatory pick, unless some team does make a trade offer that the Chiefs have to consider. But with what I pointed out regarding DeSean Jackson, that's about as likely as a blizzard happening in Hawaii.

    I really believe that Dorsey is going to pluck a hidden gem at Safety for the Chiefs in later rounds in this years draft and next years draft. See CB Sam Shields up in GB for an example of that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brdempsey69 View Post
    I really believe that Dorsey is going to pluck a hidden gem at Safety for the Chiefs in later rounds in this years draft and next years draft. See CB Sam Shields up in GB for an example of that.
    That's always a possibility. Let's hope so. He has done a good job of planning ahead. He took Fisher knowing he was gonna lose Albert and that looks like it will work out.

    I'd feel a lot better letting Berry go, knowing we already have his replacement.
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