Explaining my frustration with the QB hate.

[matthewschiefs]

This has sort of become my hot button issue when it comes to the Chiefs. And I thought I would attempt to explain why I feel so strongly about it. In a lot of ways it doesn't have much to do with the people on a forum saying it. Hey at the end of the day we are all just people giving an opinion.

It has more to do with the fact that this is the constant approach this franchise has seemed to have taken for the past nearly 10 years. Like I have said over and over again Since Bowe was drafted the WR core has been Bowe and a lot of below average guys and they have just hoped that it will work. IT HASN'T IT'S NOT GOING TO SUDDENLY START working.

The ZERO depth at WR could not be made more clear then week 1 this year. There should be ZERO conditions for a NFL team that Frankie Hammond Jr is a starting WR. ZERO. But that's what we saw. It's what we have given QB after QB. This is not a new thing for this team. Its choices of WR haven't been great. You can go WAY back for that. With the likes of Sammie Parker (who was ok at best) This is why I am so frustrated about this issue.

A couple of years ago when My Man Hali was here he had a saying about the definition of insanity being
Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
That's what you can say about the talent on offense this team has built over the past decade. IT HAS TO CHANGE or they will never get any further the one and done IMO.

The good news is there is some hope currently on the roster DAT has shown he could become a good weapon. The deep past what got me excited was he actually made an adjustment on the ball. That's a good sign. Albert Wilson also showed some hope. He didn't play a lot early I wonder what could have happened if he was actually able to play throughout the season. If he could have made progress going forward.

My frustration doesn't come from some love for Alex Smith. I took the same heat for Cassel. My frustration comes from being tired of seeing the same thing repeated with QB after QB after QB. I was very open to the QB change and hope it would change for the first handful but after seeing as many as we have seen come through you have to ask yourself has the problem been this franchise is setting a QB up to fail? IMO the answer is a loud YES.

[slc chief]

Not saying alex sucks hell I put him above the garbage list above. but below green. I am saying he is average. His highs are most other qb's mediums and his lows are most qb's medium. Average thats what he is. with the days of salary caps and free agent losses you have to be above average and clutch in big moments at hands down the most important position on the field in today's nfl. Let alone each year the league changes the rules for pass happy offenses to where defenders have their hands tied. Look at the past superbowl winners they all have a no doubt franchise qb. They put there self in a chance to win it all. Then it blows up via free agency or coordinators going on to be coaches. what do they do keep there qb and put some free agency/draft picks around them and make another run. The days of having all pro lineman, rb's and wr's are gone its to hard to keep them together.

[Eydugstr]

This has sort of become my hot button issue when it comes to the Chiefs. And I thought I would attempt to explain why I feel so strongly about it. In a lot of ways it doesn't have much to do with the people on a forum saying it. Hey at the end of the day we are all just people giving an opinion.

It has more to do with the fact that this is the constant approach this franchise has seemed to have taken for the past nearly 10 years. Like I have said over and over again Since Bowe was drafted the WR core has been Bowe and a lot of below average guys and they have just hoped that it will work. IT HASN'T IT'S NOT GOING TO SUDDENLY START working.

The ZERO depth at WR could not be made more clear then week 1 this year. There should be ZERO conditions for a NFL team that Frankie Hammond Jr is a starting WR. ZERO. But that's what we saw. It's what we have given QB after QB. This is not a new thing for this team. Its choices of WR haven't been great. You can go WAY back for that. With the likes of Sammie Parker (who was ok at best) This is why I am so frustrated about this issue.

A couple of years ago when My Man Hali was here he had a saying about the definition of insanity being
Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
That's what you can say about the talent on offense this team has built over the past decade. IT HAS TO CHANGE or they will never get any further the one and done IMO.

The good news is there is some hope currently on the roster DAT has shown he could become a good weapon. The deep past what got me excited was he actually made an adjustment on the ball. That's a good sign. Albert Wilson also showed some hope. He didn't play a lot early I wonder what could have happened if he was actually able to play throughout the season. If he could have made progress going forward.

My frustration doesn't come from some love for Alex Smith. I took the same heat for Cassel. My frustration comes from being tired of seeing the same thing repeated with QB after QB after QB. I was very open to the QB change and hope it would change for the first handful but after seeing as many as we have seen come through you have to ask yourself has the problem been this franchise is setting a QB up to fail? IMO the answer is a loud YES.

Agreed. Especially with these two statements. We've changed QB's. How many years have we held onto Bowe as our #1 WR? After Vermeil left, how long did it take the light bulb to come on before the front office began to pay serious attention to the O-line, and least try to make improvements? How many QB's and RB's have we lost to injury because of it?

To improve, it's got to be an organizational shift. We've got to put better focus on the WR and O-line positions when we draft. I'd like to see us get a WR coach with a track record of improving his WR squads.

As far as Alex Smith goes...The man means nothing to me personally, but I find it hard to judge the guy, good or bad, and refuse to join the crowd that are all too eager to help tighten the noose just because he's not popular with the gang at work, fantasy football or the talking heads at ESPN. Look at that merry-go-round of coaches he had in SF and ask yourself if ANY of them compare to Bill Walsh or George Seifert. He had some bad seasons but he also helped his team to an NFC Championship game, then played for 10 games during the year they went to the super bowl. Now the big story is Harbaugh is on his way out the door, despite a winning record. I'm not interested in bashing Alex Smith until it's obvious the front office has done everything it can to put an offense together around him.

This coming offseason is going to be fun to watch. We've got a ton of draft picks, an opportunity to get rid of some dead weight and re-sign a monster LB.

[Justin5772002]

Our Oline is the problem people. Give any QB more time to pick apart the defense and sooner or later hell find someone open

[ctchiefsfan]

Our Oline is the problem people. Give any QB more time to pick apart the defense and sooner or later hell find someone open

While I agree the O-Line is a problem, I am of the opinion that our WRs are a bigger problem.

[matthewschiefs]

Not saying alex sucks hell I put him above the garbage list above. but below green. I am saying he is average. His highs are most other qb's mediums and his lows are most qb's medium. Average thats what he is. with the days of salary caps and free agent losses you have to be above average and clutch in big moments at hands down the most important position on the field in today's nfl. Let alone each year the league changes the rules for pass happy offenses to where defenders have their hands tied. Look at the past superbowl winners they all have a no doubt franchise qb. They put there self in a chance to win it all. Then it blows up via free agency or coordinators going on to be coaches. what do they do keep there qb and put some free agency/draft picks around them and make another run. The days of having all pro lineman, rb's and wr's are gone its to hard to keep them together.

Yes it's hard to keep guys together but not impossible.

But it's impossible to keep them together if you never get them together in the first place. This franchise hasn't done that. That IMO has been a much bigger reason why this team has seen a limited offense more then who the QB was or is.

[Stevie Ray]

had a saying about the definition of insanity being
Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Do you mean like trying to salvage retread QBs that other teams are willing to send packing?

Maybe it's just me, but complaining about WR depth and offensive line play when you have a problem at QB ....... is like bothering yourself about bad brakes and tires on an automobile whose engine is knocking.

The one constant that has been associated to Alex Smith led teams over his entire career is a lower tier passing offense. It hasn't much mattered who his receivers were, nor who manned his offensive line - he's never been able to manufacture anything better than a below average pass offense. Why would we expect that to change now?

From DeBerg to Krieg to Montana to Bono to Grbac to Green to Huard to Cassel to Smith - the Chiefs have tried the same philosophy when it comes to acquisitions at the most important and absolutely most 'impactful' position on the team. They've always looked to deal for that proverbial "spare QB" that some other team has on their roster.

Of course there have been varying levels of success with this philosophy, but it's mostly been abject failure.

The biggest reason why the lineage of wide receivers in the Chiefs' organization has been so pedestrian, is because the QBs have been for the most part very mediocre.

So when you mention that saying about insanity, this is what comes to mind 1st and foremost for me.

[matthewschiefs]

Do you mean like trying to salvage retread QBs that other teams are willing to send packing?

Maybe it's just me, but complaining about WR depth and offensive line play when you have a problem at QB ....... is like bothering yourself about bad brakes and tires on an automobile whose engine is knocking.

The one constant that has been associated to Alex Smith led teams over his entire career is a lower tier passing offense. It hasn't much mattered who his receivers were, nor who manned his offensive line - he's never been able to manufacture anything better than a below average pass offense. Why would we expect that to change now?

From DeBerg to Krieg to Montana to Bono to Grbac to Green to Huard to Cassel to Smith - the Chiefs have tried the same philosophy when it comes to acquisitions at the most important and absolutely most 'impactful' position on the team. They've always looked to deal for that proverbial "spare QB" that some other team has on their roster.

Of course there have been varying levels of success with this philosophy, but it's mostly been abject failure.

The biggest reason why the lineage of wide receivers in the Chiefs' organization has been so pedestrian, is because the QBs have been for the most part very mediocre.

So when you mention that saying about insanity, this is what comes to mind 1st and foremost for me.

Trent Green was mediocre. I guess the number 1 offense in the league just isn't good enough now.

The fact is one of the "rethreads" did work. Why people refuse to accept that is just mind blowing. For a number of years we had one of the most high powered fun offenses in the NFL. That was the last time we had an offense that had any depth.

[ctchiefsfan]

Montana didn't exactly do too bad either.

[Stevie Ray]

I am sorry but any QB is only as good as those around him.

Of course it's the ultimate team sport, and QBs do indeed need good players around them, but the inverse is true even moreso, IMO.

The QBs you mentioned (Manning, Brady, Rodgers, etc) have had a revolving door of players around them, and no matter who they've played with, their production doesn't suffer. Are we to conclude that good players have been around them as a stroke of good fortune? If so, then why do the good QBs always seem to be the beneficiary of talented supporting casts?

Truth is ...... the QB is the catalyst for their production. The QB is the hub of the reason why his offensive line is perceived to be sufficient/insufficient, and why his WRs are productive/unproductive.

If Manning would have had our receivers, his numbers would be very similar to what they are now. Hypothetically speaking, Dwayne Bowe's production would be that of a top 10 type of receiver, DAT would be in the running for rookie of the year, Kelce would be regarded as perhaps the best young TE in football, and some lesser known commodity at WR (perhaps Wilson or Hammond) would have developed into a legitimate weapon as a #2 NFL receiver.

Why? Because they would all have been given many more opportunities to make plays. Peyton Manning would've untilized them to the fullest extent of their abilities. That's what good QBs do.

The ability of the QB determines the production of his weapons moreso than vice versa. If you don't believe me, look at Demariyus Thomas' numbers pre-Manning compared to post-manning. Look at how Reggie Wayne's numbers dropped in '11 without Manning compared to the years prior with Manning. Look at Eric Decker pre-Manning, then with Manning, and now post-Mannning.

Go ahead, compare.

[Stevie Ray]

Trent Green was mediocre.

I thought that I was careful with my words. I did say that there were varying degrees of success.

I'm saying that the lineage of Chiefs QBs have been mediocre overall.

Green was solid, and his production was up there with the elite QBs during a couple seasons. No doubt.

My point is that the Chiefs philosophy of acquiring QBs plays more to a reliance on the exception rather than the rule. Teams rarely let go of good QBs that are still in their prime.