Explaining my frustration with the QB hate.

[matthewschiefs]

This has sort of become my hot button issue when it comes to the Chiefs. And I thought I would attempt to explain why I feel so strongly about it. In a lot of ways it doesn't have much to do with the people on a forum saying it. Hey at the end of the day we are all just people giving an opinion.

It has more to do with the fact that this is the constant approach this franchise has seemed to have taken for the past nearly 10 years. Like I have said over and over again Since Bowe was drafted the WR core has been Bowe and a lot of below average guys and they have just hoped that it will work. IT HASN'T IT'S NOT GOING TO SUDDENLY START working.

The ZERO depth at WR could not be made more clear then week 1 this year. There should be ZERO conditions for a NFL team that Frankie Hammond Jr is a starting WR. ZERO. But that's what we saw. It's what we have given QB after QB. This is not a new thing for this team. Its choices of WR haven't been great. You can go WAY back for that. With the likes of Sammie Parker (who was ok at best) This is why I am so frustrated about this issue.

A couple of years ago when My Man Hali was here he had a saying about the definition of insanity being
Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
That's what you can say about the talent on offense this team has built over the past decade. IT HAS TO CHANGE or they will never get any further the one and done IMO.

The good news is there is some hope currently on the roster DAT has shown he could become a good weapon. The deep past what got me excited was he actually made an adjustment on the ball. That's a good sign. Albert Wilson also showed some hope. He didn't play a lot early I wonder what could have happened if he was actually able to play throughout the season. If he could have made progress going forward.

My frustration doesn't come from some love for Alex Smith. I took the same heat for Cassel. My frustration comes from being tired of seeing the same thing repeated with QB after QB after QB. I was very open to the QB change and hope it would change for the first handful but after seeing as many as we have seen come through you have to ask yourself has the problem been this franchise is setting a QB up to fail? IMO the answer is a loud YES.

[doobs_05]

How many veteran QB's want to sign with a team that shows no commitment to them? Was Reid suppose to wait a year and deal with Cassel or Quinn until Bridgewater became available? Do you have any clue as to what this team went through in '12 ? Fans would've been in a complete uproar. And there's no way Cassel, Quinn or any of the '13 QB draft prospects would've picked up Reid's offense the way Alex Smith did.



I quote this because it doesn't make sense with the next highlighted quote.



You've done research for two years and you're just joining the board now? Why would anyone research someone they thought had limited pocket skills for two years?

The reason why I've bashed the WR's for the past couple of years is functioning eyesight. Too many times I've seen catchable passes get dropped, not too mention the absolute lack of effort displayed at times (for ex, Donnie Avery's performance against the Titans.) Any QB that looks downfield, sees no recievers are open will give his guys that extra second to get open, or try to scramble. Our WR's have a really bad tendency not to bail out his QB by not getting to an open area or scrambling in the direction of the QB when the play breaks down. It also doesn't help when the no.1 WR (Bowe) gets busted before the biggest game of the season (the Riverside incident before the Broncos MNF game.) As a fan I'm just hoping they cut their drops in half, they don't have to catch everything thrown their way, but I really believe that if we go from bottom to middle of the pack in dropped passes, it's a better gauge of our QB.

At this point, Alex Smith (barring injury) is our starting QB until '17. Like like him or not, he's a Chief. Since the QB position isn't most likely going to be changed next couple of years, that leaves other positions on the offense and right now the big question marks are at WR and O-line. After what Reid went through in Philly (when everyone complained that they wouldn't go to the SB until they found a monster WR...unfortunately that WR was named Terrell Owens, but they did get to the big dance), can't see him staying idle with either group.

Calm down, sir. Dude made a calm and easy comment and you get really up set. Just like someone said, maybe he thought Alex would be here, draft bridge, let chase play a year after releasing Alex to FA then put in Bridge. Also, there are more chiefs boards on the internet then just this one. He could of done his research and been on other boards and then found this one.

[Stevie Ray]

How many veteran QB's want to sign with a team that shows no commitment to them? Was Reid suppose to wait a year and deal with Cassel or Quinn until Bridgewater became available? Do you have any clue as to what this team went through in '12 ? Fans would've been in a complete uproar. And there's no way Cassel, Quinn or any of the '13 QB draft prospects would've picked up Reid's offense the way Alex Smith did.

Maybe you misunderstood what I meant by commit. As I said, I didn't mind so much them bringing Smith here, but giving him the contract extension is something I wouldn't have done. That's what I mean by commit. Smith came here with 2 years remaining on his deal - which covers the '13 and '14 seasons. Cassel and Quinn are non-factors in anything I presented.

You've done research for two years and you're just joining the board now? Why would anyone research someone they thought had limited pocket skills for two years?

Color me confused. What does my research on Smith have to with me just now joining the board? Why would my opinion of his pocket skills keep me from doing research on him?

but I really believe that if we go from bottom to middle of the pack in dropped passes, it's a better gauge of our QB.

That's fine, but I'm of the opinion that 9 NFL seasons is plenty to guage him by. I expect him to be pretty much what he's been his entire career. That's not to slight him, but rather to say that less dropped passes will make but a negligible difference in his overall production.

Smith or no Smith, the Chiefs need to upgrade the team in every way possible. I think we're all in agreement there. I just don't feel that upgrades are going to lend to Smith leading anything other than a lower tier passing offense - because he's always done so.

So if Smith is the best we can do for now, and we have to find ways to succeed despite an inferior pass offense, then so be it.

[matthewschiefs]

Lets face it alex does have some talent on this team its not like he is working with bare cupboards.

Some talent yes but very little depth.

How many teams would Frankie Hammond Jr or Aj Jenkins have been cut from. Both started games for us.

[slc chief]

Some talent yes but very little depth.

How many teams would Frankie Hammond Jr or Aj Jenkins have been cut from. Both started games for us.

Its the all pro rb I am referring to. And above average defense and special teams and t/e. Bowe imo is a #2 wr just like lafell in n.e Alex does need some wr help. But lets not put out there as if he has nothing to work with. And thats the bottom line

[matthewschiefs]

Its the all pro rb I am referring to. And above average defense and special teams and t/e. Bowe imo is a #2 wr just like lafell in n.e Alex does need some wr help. But lets not put out there as if he has nothing to work with. And thats the bottom line

He needs WR help and some O line help.

I would agree that some of the sacks were because Alex held on to the ball to long. But there was also a lot of times they never gave Alex a chance. Like the time Alex wasn't even able to complete a 3 step drop before he was sacked. We a team get quick pressure on him on a 3 man rush. CT asked how they couldn't even block 3 guys during that game.

Kelce looks like he's going to be a very good TE. But he is not a finished product. Albert Wilson show some promise but he didn't play much at all until late in the year. DAT show some progression as the year went on. So there is hope for a couple of guys at WR DAT had me excited the last game because he actually made an adjustment on a ball to make a catch. Had not seen that all year. So while we do have talent and can't say that Alex has nothing to work with some of that talent is still very much a work in progress and that has to be considered. Very hopeful that DAT and Wilson can come back better next year.

[ctchiefsfan]

He needs WR help and some O line help.

YUP!!!!

I would agree that some of the sacks were because Alex held on to the ball to long.

Absolutely! It's not as if Alex Smith is utterly blameless here. To say so would be silly. But it would be equally silly to say it's all Alex's fault.

But there was also a lot of times they never gave Alex a chance.

YUP again!

Like the time Alex wasn't even able to complete a 3 step drop before he was sacked. We a team get quick pressure on him on a 3 man rush. CT asked how they couldn't even block 3 guys during that game.

The Bills had pressure on Alex quickly the whole game while rushing only 3 or 4 men. That's a sign that our O-line needs help. There was another more recent game (can't remember which one) in which Alex was pressured all game long with just 3 or 4 people rushing him.

Would Manning or Brady have done better with our same offense than Alex did? I don't think there is much doubt about that. But also think you'd have seen either one of them (Brady or Manning) delivering some choice words to both our O-line and WRs. Both of them are well known for being willing to speak right up if they think someone is not getting his job done.

Kelce looks like he's going to be a very good TE. But he is not a finished product. Albert Wilson show some promise but he didn't play much at all until late in the year. DAT show some progression as the year went on. So there is hope for a couple of guys at WR DAT had me excited the last game because he actually made an adjustment on a ball to make a catch. Had not seen that all year. So while we do have talent and can't say that Alex has nothing to work with some of that talent is still very much a work in progress and that has to be considered. Very hopeful that DAT and Wilson can come back better next year.

I agree again. It's not like we need to get rid of all our receivers.There are some good parts there. But I still think we need a real speedster to complement Bowe (if we keep him). I might add that I think Avant did a pretty decent job in his 5 games with us.

[Stevie Ray]

He needs WR help and some O line help.

No doubt the Chiefs could use help wherever they can get it, but can we just as easily admit that the O line and WRs need some QB help?

For what Smith does as a QB, he has good weapons, IMO. He's a QB that loves to throw to his TE(s), work the middle of the field with his WRs, and check down to his RBs coming out of the backfield. He has a couple of RBs in Charles and Davis who can catch and do some things with the ball in their hands. Kelce is a good, up and coming young pass catching TE, Bowe is a viable weapon as a bigger WR who can work the middle of the field, and Albert Wilson looks like he can add an extra element to the offense. DAT is a big play looking for somewhere to happen - he can come out of the backfield, split out wide, or line up in the slot and work those short-intermediate routes that Smith likes so much.

That's why I agree with the sentiment that Smith has some weapons - particularly weapons that compliment his style of play. He's never been a QB that utilizes the WR position a whole lot - particularly not on the perimeter. How many times have you actually seen him make a throw to that region of the field that is 10 (or more) yards down field and outside of the numbers?

Outside of looking to upgrade an O-lineman or two - which all teams tend to do in the off-season - what type of help do you feel will make Smith a better QB than what we've seen so far?

[matthewschiefs]

No doubt the Chiefs could use help wherever they can get it, but can we just as easily admit that the O line and WRs need some QB help?

For what Smith does as a QB, he has good weapons, IMO. He's a QB that loves to throw to his TE(s), work the middle of the field with his WRs, and check down to his RBs coming out of the backfield. He has a couple of RBs in Charles and Davis who can catch and do some things with the ball in their hands. Kelce is a good, up and coming young pass catching TE, Bowe is a viable weapon as a bigger WR who can work the middle of the field, and Albert Wilson looks like he can add an extra element to the offense. DAT is a big play looking for somewhere to happen - he can come out of the backfield, split out wide, or line up in the slot and work those short-intermediate routes that Smith likes so much.

That's why I agree with the sentiment that Smith has some weapons - particularly weapons that compliment his style of play. He's never been a QB that utilizes the WR position a whole lot - particularly not on the perimeter. How many times have you actually seen him make a throw to that region of the field that is 10 (or more) yards down field and outside of the numbers?

Outside of looking to upgrade an O-lineman or two - which all teams tend to do in the off-season - what type of help do you feel will make Smith a better QB than what we've seen so far?

I again will agree Smith had some weapons but heres the thing about them outside of Bowe the other WRs you mentioned didn't even play a good part of the season on offense.They started getting playing time late in the year. Kind of hard for a QB to use those weapons if they are not in the game much wouldn't you say. DAT and Wilson were again showing some promise DAT more the Wilson IMO. But neither are close to being finished products they have to grow as players. Same with Kelce. He had some real up moments then he he some down moments like the play I mentioned earlier where he just quit on a play staring at Alex like a deer in the headlights. That's just something that players have to go through regardless if they have an elite QB or not. Davis also didn't seem to get a lot of time in games outside of when Charles was hurt. Charles and Bowe no question weapons. The rest showed real signs but are not finished products.

As for the improvements in QB play all around it could be better I agree. If you go look in the thread titled Alex Smith i posted a number of times I had been critical of ALex. Again no one is saying that Alex was outstanding. No one is saying that he was flawless no one was saying that he played like a top QB. What I'm saying is that a lot of the time he didn't have a chance. For example the no TD passes to wr thing. A lot of people put that on Alex. Go back to the last game a QB Daniel put our number 1 WR in position to score and our number 1 WR fumbled keeping himself out of the endzone. Where did the QB go wrong there?

I also go back to the last Denver loss. We were driving Alex hits Avery for at the very least a first down and still alive in the game Avery fumbles and Denver could just kneel on the ball Alex gave his guy a chance and did his part yet after that game people said "Alex couldn't get it done"

The Arizona game same thing expect Kelce instad of Avery. What did Alex do wrong on those plays? Both ended up being killer plays in those games. Alex did his part on those plays the others didn't. That hurt us just as much as anything.

These are examples of my whole thing. The lack of depth hurts this team and we have not given QBS much of a chance to be successful. Until we do that this offense isn't going to go anywhere farther then where it has been.

[ctchiefsfan]

what type of help do you feel will make Smith a better QB than what we've seen so far?

Hard to answer that question until we see who gets released or traded, but as things stand now we need a real burner at WR opposite Bowe. Bowe isn't a speedster. He battles for his catches and when he is on his game he can outmuscle most defenders in the NFL. But so often he plays lackadasically. We need a mid-sized speedster with glue for hands.

Alex is never going to be a gunslinger, his bread and butter will always be the passes that travel 0-10 yards from where he releases the ball. Then it's up to the receiver to get the YAC. And that can be a VERY effective ball-control type game. But it only works if you have some sort of legitimate deep threat. If you don't, you get what happened this year. Enemy defenses just plain eat your breakfast. If we don't have a solid deep threat then the short passing game and running games are going to have problems.

[OMGLadyGaga]

No doubt the Chiefs could use help wherever they can get it, but can we just as easily admit that the O line and WRs need some QB help?

For what Smith does as a QB, he has good weapons, IMO. He's a QB that loves to throw to his TE(s), work the middle of the field with his WRs, and check down to his RBs coming out of the backfield. He has a couple of RBs in Charles and Davis who can catch and do some things with the ball in their hands. Kelce is a good, up and coming young pass catching TE, Bowe is a viable weapon as a bigger WR who can work the middle of the field, and Albert Wilson looks like he can add an extra element to the offense. DAT is a big play looking for somewhere to happen - he can come out of the backfield, split out wide, or line up in the slot and work those short-intermediate routes that Smith likes so much.

That's why I agree with the sentiment that Smith has some weapons - particularly weapons that compliment his style of play. He's never been a QB that utilizes the WR position a whole lot - particularly not on the perimeter. How many times have you actually seen him make a throw to that region of the field that is 10 (or more) yards down field and outside of the numbers?

Outside of looking to upgrade an O-lineman or two - which all teams tend to do in the off-season - what type of help do you feel will make Smith a better QB than what we've seen so far?

I think you are an excellent poster and bring forth logical and well-surmised points of views, whether I agree with it or not is irrelevant. Much better than reading homerism-riddled posts blindly defending a guy "because he's on my team and my team is the best" nonsense.

I fully agree that Alex deserves even more blame simply because of the excellent posts you made. The front office IMO is doing an excellent job building a team that Alex can win with, they have a star rb, multiple tight end weaponds, quick hit receivers and bowe who will work the middle of the field. And a steadily improving defense that played for the most part lights out against a tough schedule. Those are the ingredients that play up Alex's strengths, but also unfortunately whenever we fall behind, or as was the case in many of our losses, it exposes his greatest weakness. I still can't get over the laughable attempts at game winning drives he had, against Oakland and AZ being the biggest fails, under a minute left no timeouts and you're throwing it 2 yards up the field? Ah, but I digress.

I really like Alex Smith, dude is a competitor and from all accounts an awesome guy and teammate, he's also very smart. I like that. It just so happens he isn't a good qb, he's capable sure, but you need to have a dominant team in every area for us to be able to contend for a super bowl with him at the helm. And unfortunately due to free agency, and injuries, even if we build that team our window to win is still really small, considering aforementioned factors that make it hard to keep a team together, and also the amount of sheer variance in single elimination playoff games. But look around the league and there are teams with revolving doors at every other position but yet contend year in and year out, the one constant being QB.

No I don't really have any solutions, but that is not my job. If it was up to me, and this doesn't go for just the chiefs but for every team that is mired in mediocrity, just keep drafting qbs until you get it right.