Explaining my frustration with the QB hate.

[matthewschiefs]

This has sort of become my hot button issue when it comes to the Chiefs. And I thought I would attempt to explain why I feel so strongly about it. In a lot of ways it doesn't have much to do with the people on a forum saying it. Hey at the end of the day we are all just people giving an opinion.

It has more to do with the fact that this is the constant approach this franchise has seemed to have taken for the past nearly 10 years. Like I have said over and over again Since Bowe was drafted the WR core has been Bowe and a lot of below average guys and they have just hoped that it will work. IT HASN'T IT'S NOT GOING TO SUDDENLY START working.

The ZERO depth at WR could not be made more clear then week 1 this year. There should be ZERO conditions for a NFL team that Frankie Hammond Jr is a starting WR. ZERO. But that's what we saw. It's what we have given QB after QB. This is not a new thing for this team. Its choices of WR haven't been great. You can go WAY back for that. With the likes of Sammie Parker (who was ok at best) This is why I am so frustrated about this issue.

A couple of years ago when My Man Hali was here he had a saying about the definition of insanity being
Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
That's what you can say about the talent on offense this team has built over the past decade. IT HAS TO CHANGE or they will never get any further the one and done IMO.

The good news is there is some hope currently on the roster DAT has shown he could become a good weapon. The deep past what got me excited was he actually made an adjustment on the ball. That's a good sign. Albert Wilson also showed some hope. He didn't play a lot early I wonder what could have happened if he was actually able to play throughout the season. If he could have made progress going forward.

My frustration doesn't come from some love for Alex Smith. I took the same heat for Cassel. My frustration comes from being tired of seeing the same thing repeated with QB after QB after QB. I was very open to the QB change and hope it would change for the first handful but after seeing as many as we have seen come through you have to ask yourself has the problem been this franchise is setting a QB up to fail? IMO the answer is a loud YES.

[Stevie Ray]

You mention being 29th in passing but again to me more goes into it then Alex Smith This team was top 3 in the NFL in most dropped passes at least 30 of them. That had something to do with it.

Dropped passes certainly don't help, but it is a negligible factor in regard to how low the passing offense ranks. Besides, I referenced each of Smith's full seasons and the fact that the pass offense ranks poorly every year.

But I think we've uncovered the source of our differences - you feel Smith is a good QB and I don't.

Either way, we both agree that the Chiefs can win with Smith and they probably have no other choice but to try to get better around him. It'll be up to Andy Reid to figure out a way to succeed despite what is likely going to be an inferior pass offense. I have faith in Reid.

[BuyaBoatfromBlake]

We need to protect Alex first and foremost, though a new QB to us, he is not getting any younger (We share the same birthday which is pretty cool) and Oakland isn't playing any cleaner.
We will address the WR situation or situations rather over the summer, I feel a big move coming soon.
On another note I have enjoyed reading all the articles in main stream media on Houston and the most under the radar year of sacks in recent NFL history. His Jersey will be hanging next to my Mid 90's D. Thomas jersey in the man cave soon, and I NEVER buy current player jerseys after purchasing 3 Moeaki jerseys and 2 Cassel. Cursing us I'm sure.


Happy New Year fellow Chief fans. My resolution is to post more and lurk less.

Cheers

[matthewschiefs]

Dropped passes certainly don't help, but it is a negligible factor in regard to how low the passing offense ranks. Besides, I referenced each of Smith's full seasons and the fact that the pass offense ranks poorly every year.

But I think we've uncovered the source of our differences - you feel Smith is a good QB and I don't.

Either way, we both agree that the Chiefs can win with Smith and they probably have no other choice but to try to get better around him. It'll be up to Andy Reid to figure out a way to succeed despite what is likely going to be an inferior pass offense. I have faith in Reid.

I think it's also our outlooks on football as a whole

People IMO put way to much on the QB position. That's all you will here about from the media a lot of the times. I've mentioned this before but people look back at the super bowl the Colts won with Manning and just think he lead them to the super bowl. Well if you really go back and look at it they won it inspite of the fact he was there QB. 3td 7INTs and I think he lost a fumble as well (I could be wrong) But his QB rating was below 70. But you here that he somehow led them to a superbowl from most people.

You used the automobile analogy in a post in this thread let me use one that kind of describes my outlook.

It's like going to the doctor. You get bad news all around you have Cancer and heart failure. The constant swapping QBs out that this team has done over the past number of years is like saying to the dr "You know doc I think we need to get that cancer taken care of but lets just ignore the heart failure thing" Even if you are able to be cured of the cancer you're still not healthy. Likewise to keep the approach this franchise has when it comes to building an offense or lack there off getting a QB isn't going to make much change. My approach is to fix the entire problem. QB spot is in that but as we mostly have agreed there really isn't going to be a better option this offseason. So What I'm saying is lets fix those other problems now. Maybe Alex is able to step up with better talent around him if not then we fix that spot. But to keep the thowing out QB after QB looking a D Bowe on one side who at times can take himself out of games and on the other side seeing The likes of AJ Jenkins Frankie Hammond John Baldwin and say Good luck kid just won't ever get us anywhere.

[Stevie Ray]

People IMO put way to much on the QB position. That's all you will here about from the media a lot of the times.

That's because there is nothing more 'impactful' to team success than a good QB. There isn't a single position on the field that has the power to affect results more than the QB. You mentioned the substandard post-season that Peyton Manning had, but there is no way that they would've succeeded without him. Making reference to a specific example or small sample size of a circumstance doesn't add to, nor take away from, the overall point. I doubt that anyone would argue against the thought that it's a team sport and it's about more than any one guy.

In the words of Dick Vermeil - "Football is the ultimate team sport, but the QB is too damn important."

Unlike the cancer in your analogy, fixing the issue at QB is more likely to cover up - and in some case, shore up - the other areas that ail the team. No team is perfectly assembled, and every team has holes. Besides, some things will kill you faster than others.

I've heard over and over again about how there will be no better options this off-season, but how do we know that? How do we know that there isn't a better option already on the roster? As I mentioned earlier - if you're going to boast a 29th ranked (type) pass offense, I'd just assume you do it with a younger QB that you feel has the talent to develop into a good NFL QB. I mean ...... what's the purpose of paying a veteran QB mega-bucks to lead an inferior pass offense?

Speaking of which, Smith's cap number goes up significantly for '15 & '16. That's only going to restrict the amount of help that the Chiefs can add to the roster, as well as limit what they're able to maintain as far as talent already on the team.

Smith is only the "best option" if his production is proportionate to the amount of cap space he eats up, IMO.

[matthewschiefs]

That's because there is nothing more 'impactful' to team success than a good QB. There isn't a single position on the field that has the power to affect results more than the QB. You mentioned the substandard post-season that Peyton Manning had, but there is no way that they would've succeeded without him. Making reference to a specific example or small sample size of a circumstance doesn't add to, nor take away from, the overall point. I doubt that anyone would argue against the thought that it's a team sport and it's about more than any one guy.

In the words of Dick Vermeil - "Football is the ultimate team sport, but the QB is too damn important."

Unlike the cancer in your analogy, fixing the issue at QB is more likely to cover up - and in some case, shore up - the other areas that ail the team. No team is perfectly assembled, and every team has holes. Besides, some things will kill you faster than others.

I've heard over and over again about how there will be no better options this off-season, but how do we know that? How do we know that there isn't a better option already on the roster? As I mentioned earlier - if you're going to boast a 29th ranked (type) pass offense, I'd just assume you do it with a younger QB that you feel has the talent to develop into a good NFL QB. I mean ...... what's the purpose of paying a veteran QB mega-bucks to lead an inferior pass offense?

Speaking of which, Smith's cap number goes up significantly for '15 & '16. That's only going to restrict the amount of help that the Chiefs can add to the roster, as well as limit what they're able to maintain as far as talent already on the team.

Smith is only the "best option" if his production is proportionate to the amount of cap space he eats up, IMO.

If you had been here during the pre season and after the draft you would have seen me going nuts over getting Aaron Murray. I think he could be a guy that can be the next in line. But I think they are going to let him sit for anther year at least and work for him to fine tune some things. I've seen people be high on Bray I just don't see it. I watched him a lot in Tennessee and he made mind blowing decisions moments where you just say WTF was that.

This team currently has at least 2 guys that REALLY showed a lot of promise in Kelce and DAT. But both pretty much were rookies (if you consider Kelce missed pretty much all of last year) who whiled they showed a TON of promise also well played like rookies at time. Those moments are not having a limited QB there just rookies being Rookies. That's where my thinking that people making to much of the QB comes in. While it's very true that QB is the most important spot on the field , There are just some things out of the QBs control at times. Wilson also showed some signs of hope. But he didn't get on the field much until late in the year.

There's a good chance you're correct about Alex. But I just can't sit here and say that he was what was holding the offense back. Not when a guy comes in off the street and outplays a teams number 1 guy 2 out of 3 games. But that I think still goes back to the chicken or the egg things. Which we can respectfully disagree on.

[OMGLadyGaga]

I completely agree, I think the root of the "argument" is that Mathew thinks Alex Smith is a good qb, whereas we know he isn't. He was ranked 23rd in total qbr this year, and last year he was 19th. In 2011 when the Niners went to the NFC championship game and lost, in large part because of some lol fumbles but also Alex Smith's incompetence in that game, he was ranked 20th in total qbr. And those are considered his good seasons! Before that he was easily one of the worst if not the worst qb in the league. He was still a bottom third qb with Vernon Davis at TE, Crabtree at WR and no slouch at rb in Frank Gore, great defense, oh and they just so happened to have the best offensive line in football bar none those couple of years in SF. And he was STILL a bottom third qb. Like Stevie Ray said, we have many many years of data on what he is, and he is exactly what he is, captain check down and sack taker. I think a lot of eyes will be opened if and when we have an actual good qb

[Stevie Ray]

If you had been here during the pre season and after the draft you would have seen me going nuts over getting Aaron Murray. I think he could be a guy that can be the next in line. But I think they are going to let him sit for anther year at least and work for him to fine tune some things.

As much as I would like to be excited about Murray, I didn't think much of him as a pro QB prospect before the Chiefs drafted him, and my tune hasn't changed now that he's one of ours. He was a good QB for the college game, no doubt, but in watching him at Georgia I didn't feel he had the pocket skills that QBs need to excel at the NFL level. Of course I'm no pro scout, so take that with a grain of salt.

I will say this though ......... Murray is with the right coach and in the right system to cultivate his talents. He's like Alex Smith in many ways - football player 1st, QB 2nd.

I've seen people be high on Bray I just don't see it. I watched him a lot in Tennessee and he made mind blowing decisions moments where you just say WTF was that.

Man, I hope we're actually able to agree on something one of these days.

I was intrigued by Bray the very 1st time I saw him as a freshman in college. I remember flipping through the channels and landing on a Vols game, and seeing this tall, wiry kid that was rifling the ball all over the field. His arm talent was obvious on sight. I kept an eye on him from that day on, and watched him get better and better from year to year.

I predicted that he would be a good pro QB one day, so I may just be rooting for my prediction. Needless to say I was ecstatic when he became a Chief.

As for the WTF throws, yes, those happen. Brett Farve was known for it; Tony Romo as well. Guys named Manning and Brady aren't immune to it either. Not that I'm liking Bray to any of those guys from a standpoint of skills or achievements, but to some degree he's that style of QB - prototypical pocket passer, relies on footwork, timing, eyes (to move coverage), anticipates throws, trusts his receivers to be in spots on time, etc. But occasionally gets over-confident in his arm and ability to fit balls into tight windows.

Admittedly, I'm more fond of pocket passers than I am mobile QBs - finding a guy that is adept at both would be a dream come true (Aaron Rodgers). But physical tools are one thing, skills are another. I'm in no position to judge Bray or Murray's leadership and decision making, and that can be what separates the good ones from the rest.

Ironically enough, the Georgia vs. Tennesse game (Bray's junior year) was one of the most entertaining college football games that I can remember watching that year. I remember Georgia clearly being the better team - particularly defensively. I remember it being sort of a shootout, and both QBs did some good things. I'm pretty sure it's posted on YouTube or something because it was a classic.

Anyway, it'll be interesting watching these 2 youngsters battle it out this summer. I'd say that Bray has the higher ceiling, but Murray has a better chance of sticking because he fits. That's just my take on it. Sorry for the long post, I get a little geeked up talking about QBs.

[Stevie Ray]

I completely agree, I think the root of the "argument" is that Mathew thinks Alex Smith is a good qb, whereas we know he isn't. He was ranked 23rd in total qbr this year, and last year he was 19th. In 2011 when the Niners went to the NFC championship game and lost, in large part because of some lol fumbles but also Alex Smith's incompetence in that game, he was ranked 20th in total qbr. And those are considered his good seasons! Before that he was easily one of the worst if not the worst qb in the league.

Yep, you're exactly right - even in those winning seasons, his total QBR was below 50 (for those that may not know, 50 is dead average), and as I've mentioned, the passing offenses have ranked near the bottom. Add to that the fact that he's getting sacked more than 40 times per season, even behind what are perceived to be good offensive lines, and it becomes obvious that he's a bigger factor to the ineptitude of the offense than some care to acknowledge.

Smith has been fortunate enough to be on a few well rounded teams that don't require much more out of their QB other than to not lose games. To his credit, he's done a good job in that respect.

Team wins have a way of covering up the warts, but there's nowhere to hide them once the losing starts.

[slc chief]

That o-line he had in s.f was a great offensive line and you guys are right he still took a bunch of sacks and struggled to get offensive points on the board.

[ctchiefsfan]

I don't exactly disagree with either side in these Alex Smith threads. IMO he is not half as bad as some people say and he's not half as good as some think he is.

He is what he is.

But one thing is certain. Alex Smith is the Chiefs QB for at least the next couple of years unless a miracle happens and Bray or Murray suddenly turns into a clone of one of many truly great QBs the NFL has seen over the years.

And I am a Chiefs fan and always have been. So I am and will be an Alex Smith supporter until he proves to me that he just plain sucks.