Rebuilding the WR

[Chiefs4life24]

As much as I would like too see Jeremy Maclin he wants to stay in Philly, I doubt we could afford Randall Cobb even if Green Bay let him escape, I would like to see them gut everyone but Albert Wilson, and Jason Avant he provides an awesome teacher for these guys to learn from, De'Rick Rogers, sign Mark Harrison I think he deserves a shot, and build through the draft. We need to get 2-3 receivers
Dorial Beckham, Ty Montgomery, Jaelen Strong, Rashad Greene, Nelson Agholor, DeVante Parker, Kevin White, Tyler Lockett, Sammie Coates, Justin Hardy, Phillip Dorsett, Stephen Riggs and Deontay Greenberry are all great options we need too draft at least 2 of these guys maybe more. I would grab a good pass catching TE in their as well to line up with Kelce and cut Anthony Fasano

[ctchiefsfan]

Stevie Ray....

Why to you compare Alex Smith with Brady and Manning? I despise both of them but would never suggest that Alex Smith is in the same league with either...because he is not. I don't think you'll find anyone here who suggests he is. In fact, I don't think there is anyone here who thinks Alex is much better than a pretty decent QB. And you are absolutely right that Alex will look better with Reid as coach than he would with most any other coach.

What I don't comprehend is your constant ragging on him. He's the Chiefs QB and he should stay that way until someone who is CLEARLY better than him comes along....an event BTW that would THRILL Chiefs fans everywhere.

I want our Chiefs to win a Super Bowl as much as anyone, but y'know right now I'd be pretty damned thrilled if we made it to the playoffs most years and at least won a few playoff games. Alex can do that. Can Alex get us to the Super Bowl? With the right team around him, I think he could--maybe. But I'll be the first to admit that there are a fair number of QBs out there who would make it far more likely.

But for now Alex is our QB and a far better QB than many we have had over the years. I wish we had a truly elite QB. But we don't. And I don't really see us as being likely to get one either through the draft, free agency or via trade any time during the balance of Alex's contract. (Though I do hope that either Murray or Bray will prove me wrong).

So in short, my attitude about Alex is "If you can't be with the one you love, then love the one you're with."

[N TX Dave]

Hay moderator can you change the name of this thread to "Another Smith Bashing" I thought this was supposed to be about rebuilding the WR not another QB debate.

[Chiefs4life24]

i didnt mean for this to turn into a blood bath haha

[matthewschiefs]

i didnt mean for this to turn into a blood bath haha

Troublemaker

[Stevie Ray]

Stevie Ray....

Why to you compare Alex Smith with Brady and Manning?

Selective reading. I used Brady and Manning to demonstrate how sacks are a QB stat. I thought I made that fairly clear.

What I don't comprehend is your constant ragging on him.

What I don't comprehend is your (and others) constant ragging on nearly everyone not named Alex Smith. There is no shortage of those that want to castigate the offensive line and the receivers, and it's typically the same people that cover their eyes and ears when it comes to critiques of Smith.

The truth is ....... If I (and others) mention anything about Smith's shortcomings as a QB, there's usually an apologist there to take exception to it -- which generally leads to a back and forth with them (you) defending Alex Smith, and me defending my position. It's the nature of conversation. I have no complaints about it.

But for now Alex is our QB and a far better QB than many we have had over the years.

Again, I disagree with this sentiment. Alex Smith is just the next on a long list of veteran, "spare QBs" that the Chiefs have committed themselves to. The best thing that we have going for us is the fact that Andy Reid is running the show, and has the type of coaching acumen that can win games with a guy like Smith under center. That doesn't make Smith a "far better QB" than the last "spare QB" that we dumped.

It's more about the idea that Smith is the "new toy", and until he's all dirtied up and his true worth comes to light, people don't want their hopes dashed. I get that, and I remember encountering these same types of arguments about Matt Cassel when he was showing promise in KC.

My attitude is this -- A veteran QB that routinely leads a lower tier passing offense SHOULD BE "ragged" on, but that's not necessarily my intent. I simply disagree with the notion that Smith is significantly better than what we've had, and I'm not motivated to hold his receivers or offensive line more accountable than I would the QB himself.

But after so long, I can't help but to give impression that I'm hating on him. I'm just trying to be objective and view Smith (and the entirety of the situation) realistically. It is what it is.

[Stevie Ray]

Hay moderator can you change the name of this thread to "Another Smith Bashing" I thought this was supposed to be about rebuilding the WR not another QB debate.

I always thought they went hand-n-hand, and the receivers have been bashed equally as much - if not more.

Why not just bash 'em all?

[Eydugstr]

I always thought they went hand-n-hand, and the receivers have been bashed equally as much - if not more.

Why not just bash 'em all?

Because the WR's deserved it. The only shot one of them had at a TD got fumbled away to a tight end. And that was done by our #1 WR! Normally I cringe at the thought of drafting a WR (injuries) but the past two years it's becoming apparent with the drops that a shakeup needs to happen. We've got a bunch of draft picks this year, I'd scrap the entire WR roster with the exception of Avant, Wilson & DAT and start from there.

Smith might not be an "elite" QB but it's not like he's going anywhere soon (unless he falls to injury) so given the fact that we're at the bottom rung of NFL teams in drops, no separation whatsoever and ZERO wr td's yeah I'd say change is coming at WR.

BTW trying to downplay Alex Smith by bringing up Matt Cassel's statistics on a Chiefs fan forum is not exactly a solid move. In '12 fans paid for airplanes to fly banners over Arrowhead calling for Cassel to get benched.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-...owhead-stadium

The comeback to that will probably be..."Well, the bar you've set it is pretty low.." Yeah, KC's history is filled with QB's that just didn't work out. Todd Blackledge, Matt Blundin, Mark Vlassic...it's a long list of non-descript guys that probably made better realtors than QB's. But guess what....so do a lot of other teams...If the Ravens, Redskins, and Buccanears can win the SB's with QB's like Trent Dilfer, Mark Rypien and Brad Johnson there's no reason we can't build a better team around Alex Smith and do some damage in the playoffs.

[Stevie Ray]

Because the WR's deserved it.

I don't disagree, but so does the QB. Being that he's the guy in charge of getting the ball to his WRs and giving them ample opportunities to make the plays, I'd say that he deserves it more than anyone. But that's just me.

- [For instance] Dwayne Bowe's production has taken a dive over the past 2 seasons because he's not being targeted as much. Over the past 2 seasons, Bowe has been targeted only 6.6 times per start -- which is down from 9.26 targets per start in the previous 3 seasons.

You might pin that squarely on Dwayne Bowe. That's the easy thing to do. But when you look at Smith's track record with utilizing his WRs - particularly his #1 WRs - it points to a different conclusion.

Should we really expect that an exchange of WRs is going to solve this problem? Should we really expect that DAT, Avant, Wilson, a rookie (or 2), and maybe a free agent, etc ......... is going to lend to a consequential amount of improvement over what we've gotten from the WRs the past 2 seasons?

The information is out there for those that care to analyze the data. I've done my best to put it in perspective. It is painfully obvious as to what the source of the problem is when it comes to the current ineffectiveness of the Chiefs' pass offense. I'm all for upgrading around Smith, but I don't expect his production in the passing game to change much.

Is Smith the only one to blame? Absolutely not. Can we still have success despite a lower tier passing attack? Sure, but that changes absolutely nothing about this conversation.

[Stevie Ray]

BTW trying to downplay Alex Smith by bringing up Matt Cassel's statistics on a Chiefs fan forum is not exactly a solid move. In '12 fans paid for airplanes to fly banners over Arrowhead calling for Cassel to get benched.

It's pretty convenient to use Cassel's standing of 2012 to that of Smith now. Try using Cassel's standing after 2010 instead.

If the Ravens, Redskins, and Buccanears can win the SB's with QB's like Trent Dilfer, Mark Rypien and Brad Johnson there's no reason we can't build a better team around Alex Smith and do some damage in the playoffs.

Substitute "Matt Cassel" for "Alex Smith" in that statement, and your point doesn't change.

[ctchiefsfan]

Try using Cassel's standing after 2010 instead.

Instead, let's compare the entirety of their body of work as a Chief. That's more fair than cherry picking the season you want to compare....

I took the time to do that. And I admit that in a number of ways they are very similar statistically.

BUT.....there are 5 ways in which Alex is substantially better than Cassel.

Alex completes 9.6 % more of his passes than Cassel. 57.4 completion % for Cassel. 62.9% completion % for Alex.

Alex gets 10.1% more yards per game than Cassel. 198.9 yards per game for Cassel. 219 yards per game for Alex.

Cassel turns the ball over via lost fumble or interception more than twice as much as Alex. 1.21 turnovers per game for Cassel. .57 turnovers per game for Smith.

Alex gets almost twice as many rushing yards per game as Cassel. 22.83 yards per game for Alex. 11.62 for Cassel.

So Alex completes more of his passes for more yards per game and turns the ball over at less than half the rate Cassel does.

Alex scores 15% more touchdowns per game than Cassel.

I call those stats highly significant. Not much question who I think is the better QB. Not by a country mile.