The QB Position

[Stevie Ray]

Preface:

Let's see if I can start up a discussion about the QB position in general, and the cause/effect aspect of QB vs. supporting cast.

Frankly, I've grown a little weary of being viewed as an antagonist (basher) when it comes to Alex Smith, so I wanted to see if I could somehow depart from that and start a conversation about the residual impact, or lack thereof, of the QB on his supporting cast and vice versa.

Of course this will tie back into the discussion about the Chiefs' QB scenario as it stands, but I think it's at this foundational level where our respective views on the situation lend to our disagreements.

While the QB and the supporting cast need each other to function properly, I'm going to try to make the point that the skill of the QB effects the success/failure of the supporting cast moreso than does the talent of the supporting cast effect the success/failure of the QB.

I know that might seem a little counter-intuitive, but I believe that it is indubitably the case. Indulge me.

[Stevie Ray]

How do you think Manning would have done in this offense with receivers who couldn'ge get separation for him to hit immediately as the offense line collapsed.

As well as he's always done. He'd have many of the same successes and failures that he's always had.

Manning's offensive line is collapsed and his receivers fail to get separation a good deal of the time as it is in his current situation. Those things rarely become a point of emphasis because he's skilled enough to overcome it.

Generally speaking, QBs don't get a lot of time and receivers don't get a lot of separation. That's just the NFL. A QB getting more than 2.5 to 3 seconds to make a decision with the ball, or a WR breaking open from coverage .......... these things only happen occasionally.

(Of course there are those QBs who have the ability to buy an extra second or 2 with their legs, but that is in spite of the defensive pressure breaking down their protection.)

Either way, on most occasions the QB gets rid of the ball with defenders in his face or just before he gets hit, and the receiver makes the catch with coverage that is right on top of him. Again, that's just the NFL.

When the QB is consistently unable to read coverage effectively enough to make quick enough decisions with the ball, and/or is constantly late on his reads and throws .............. this is when the focus is shifted to his offensive line and his receivers. This is when we start complaining that the offensive line isn't giving him time, or nobody is getting open. Because on the surface, that's what we see in the results.

[Justin5772002]

Football is a team sport -- goes without saying.

Yes, everyone is capable of having bad games -- irrelevant to the point at hand.

Defense wins championships -- antiquated, grid-iron cliche.

Defense is what made Tom Brady so elite -- absolutely ridiculous, IMO.

without ty law, teddy bruski and all those other huge contracted defenders to. Brady doesn't win half those superbowls. Another HUGE factor is coaching!!! Bilacheck knows how to cheat to get just the advantage needed to win by a field goal. Let's hope Andy Reid is right there with him but without the cheating.

Saying Peyton Manning has bad games is an understatement. When pressure is in his face he crumbles. That's my point. Pressure has been in Alex's face all season and we still had a winning season. Peyton Manning is also going to the Hall of Fame as one of the best QBs who ever lived and I applaud him for that. But Alex Smith is far from being in the 2nd Galf of QBs in this league. I say he's in top 15 right now and with a better supporting cast I say top 10 for sure.

[N TX Dave]

I have had enough of this, Smith sucks and we just might as well give up until we get a better QB because we are not going to get better until we do end of discussion. Is that what you want to hear? You have been calling everyone else ideas and thoughts wrong and only you are right, no matter what we say we think you always say the same things like you are the only one that knows the way it is. Now I said that and I am done trying to discuss the Chiefs QB with you until the Chiefs get a different one, because it is always the same with you. I understand YOU HATE SMITH AND THINK HE SUCKS!

[Stevie Ray]

without ty law, teddy bruski and all those other huge contracted defenders to. Brady doesn't win half those superbowls. Another HUGE factor is coaching!!!

That's the case for every QB that has ever won anything. Why would it not include Brady as well??

Saying Peyton Manning has bad games is an understatement. When pressure is in his face he crumbles. That's my point.

Pressure has been in his face throughout his entire career - just as is the case with every other QB.

Brady and Manning are 2 of the greatest QBs in the history of the NFL. I don't need to be reminded that they're human, but thanks anyway.

[Stevie Ray]

Now I said that and I am done trying to discuss the Chiefs QB with you until the Chiefs get a different one, because it is always the same with you. I understand YOU HATE SMITH AND THINK HE SUCKS!

So then stop discussing the Chiefs QB. I know it's a touchy subject for you, but don't let me steal your glory.

This discussion is about the cause/effect relationship between QB and supporting cast. Do you have anything to add?

[Justin5772002]

We will see which wins championships...do you agree Seattle has the better Defense? And do you also agree the Pats have a much better Offense?

all the anylists seem to think the Pats are going to win this game. I however think the Seahawks are going to win this game. Then we can start another argument based on whether or not we think r.Wilson is an Elite QB. I say he's not and having that Elite QB doesn't help as much as a solid defense.

[Chiefs4life24]

Pats better offence or Seahawks better defence hmm that's almost a coin flip for me. I'm going with Seattle. Even though I do think its gonna be one hell of a game. I don't think Wilson is elite but I will wait until he has had Brady's career.

[Justin5772002]

Pats better offence or Seahawks better defence hmm that's almost a coin flip for me. I'm going with Seattle. Even though I do think its gonna be one hell of a game. I don't think Wilson is elite but I will wait until he has had Brady's career.

If Wilson wins he's already going to have more rings than Peyton LOL

[Chiefs4life24]

I've always thought at the end of the day its how many rings you have on you're fingers that matters. Therefore until Peyton gets more than Eli Manning. Eli will always have the edge over Peyton in my book

[jap1]

Here is my thoughts on this topic. There are three categories of QBs: elite, good, and then below average.

Elite QBs are the HOF QB that can pull a bad team along and the defense always has to account for them. They can take a poor offensive team and make them competitive. These are the guys who make everyone around them look better. There are maybe four currently in the nfl. Rodgers, Brady, Manning(?), and Brees(?) With a couple who may soon make there (luck? Wilson?). I'm not sure that the last two are still . Manning looked average at best the last half of the season. Brees played in a bad saints team this year, so I'm not sure if he is past his prime, our just needs some help.

The good qbs are the next 10-15 guys in the league. These are the guys who are good, but cannot be expected to put a bad team on their back all season. With talent around them, they can be competitive. Their effect on the players around them is such that they will allow them to show their ability. They won't make them look better than they really are, but well let the full extent of their talent come through. The way to win with these guys is to build up the team around them. In this category you have Romo, Roethlisberger, Ryan, Rivers, Flacco, and Smith.

The last category are the below average qbs. These are the guys who make their team look worse than they really are, and would only make a good backup qb. These qbs are toxic and need to be replaced if you want any chance of winning.

If you are lucky enough to find someone in the first category, you are set. If you are in the second category (like most of the nfl), then you need to constantly keep building talent around your qb. If you are in the third category, your franchise is potentially in disarray, and you need to start from scratch (jaguar, raiders, jets, etc)