Fisher a bust?

[Bike]

Reid has Fisher taking snaps with the 2nd team in ota's, with Stephenson taking 1st team snaps...

[brdempsey69]

But when comparing great players, you don't compare joe thomas to megatron. It's better to rank a player with other players of the same position. Fisher is not tony mandarich but he also isn't Joe Thomas.

Is he better than these guys, http://www.footballnation.com/conten...history/21964/

Only time will tell.

Nobody said he was better than Joe Thomas. Is he better than those guys on that list you linked to. Except for Turley, the answer for the first two years is, yes.

[Seek]

I never recall Shields playing an entire game at LT, and if he did then it was probably at least 10+ years into his Chiefs career. And if that's the case, then why all the excuses by so many, for Branden Albert, along with the willingness to give him multiple years? Albert was certainly never dominate & oftentimes made mistakes at critical times.

I haven't said Fisher has lived up to #1 overall status, what I said was he isn't a bust and I am willing to give him the same multiple years people were willing to give Albert. If Fisher were a bust, then Fisher should have been dominated by Ware in that game at Denver in week 2, but it didn't happen.
As for this year, as long as he's healthy, then there's no reason Fisher shouldn't be a very good LT.

As for busts, look no further than Jon Baldwin and A.J. Jenkins.

First I didn't make excuses for Albert and I don't miss him. So comparing Fisher to Albert as an reason to give him three years at LT is not a good sign, specially from the #1 overall pick.

Shields filled in for about 3/4 of a game one year when they were short Tackles. He did that without playing there at all before. So the Fisher is playing out of position excuse just that, an excuse.

Regardless of any of the other picks taken after him. He was the #1 pick over all. This should be a building block player for the franchise who is pro-bowl caliber. Fair or not, his bust status is based on where he was picked not who else was availble.

[brdempsey69]

First I didn't make excuses for Albert and I don't miss him. So comparing Fisher to Albert as an reason to give him three years at LT is not a good sign, specially from the #1 overall pick.

You were the one that said that Albert was ahead of Fisher after year 2. You were incorrect. Albert was a #15 pick who they had traded a 3rd rounder to move up to take. Don't tell me that Fisher shouldn't get 3-5 years at LT when Albert was given, because that's what they drafted Fisher for -- to play LT.

Besides, Fisher played against a better series of opponents last year than Albert ever had in any of his seasons as a Chiefs LT. Albert was the guy that everybody used as a crutch for not taking O-Lineman in round 1(like Russell Okung in 2010) for years & also wanted top-5 LT money. Therefore the comparison between Fisher and Albert is more than fair. The double-standard that you and others are trying to employ, doesn't apply. Besides, Dorsey and Reid will give him the chance that Albert got and that's what really counts.

Shields filled in for about 3/4 of a game one year when they were short Tackles. He did that without playing there at all before. So the Fisher is playing out of position excuse just that, an excuse.

3/4 of a game DOES NOT equate to an entire season, nor was Shields asked to play out of position in his rookie season. That makes your argument null and void right there, as well as completely ludicrous.

Russell Okung went on record as saying that playing RT in the Pro Bowl after 2012 did feel awkward to him. It's not an excuse, it's a stark reality. Fisher looked more comfortable at LT in 2014, than he did at RT in 2013. I know, because I watched him closely both seasons via NFL Game Rewind.

Regardless of any of the other picks taken after him. He was the #1 pick over all. This should be a building block player for the franchise who is pro-bowl caliber.

As stated before, Fisher has performed better for what he was drafted to do, than two other guys that were were drafted by the Chiefs in the top 5 (Dorsey and Jackson) were drafted to do & both of whom were paid more than double what Fisher is being paid. Any objective observer can see that you didn't answer this germane point, but stayed miles away from it.

Do tell, were Jackson and Dorsey, or even Eric Berry, Pro Bowl caliber in their first 3 seasons? Not even close & anybody who thinks Berry deserved the Pro bowl after the 2010 and 2012 seasons, is an even bigger cheerleader than the ones that work at the games.

Fisher has not been Pro Bowl caliber, but to label him a bust after only playing one season at LT, is silly.

Fair or not, his bust status is based on where he was picked not who else was availble.

According to whom? Certainly not Dorsey or Reid. If they saw him as a bust, they'd have probably traded him in the off-season, just like they did with Jon Baldwin.

[JPPT1974]

Really do not label him a bust. Hopefully someone will coach him rightfully. To be the player he needs to be.

[Seek]

You were the one that said that Albert was ahead of Fisher after year 2. You were incorrect. Albert was a #15 pick who they had traded a 3rd rounder to move up to take. Don't tell me that Fisher shouldn't get 3-5 years at LT when Albert was given, because that's what they drafted Fisher for -- to play LT.

Besides, Fisher played against a better series of opponents last year than Albert ever had in any of his seasons as a Chiefs LT. Albert was the guy that everybody used as a crutch for not taking O-Lineman in round 1(like Russell Okung in 2010) for years & also wanted top-5 LT money. Therefore the comparison between Fisher and Albert is more than fair. The double-standard that you and others are trying to employ, doesn't apply. Besides, Dorsey and Reid will give him the chance that Albert got and that's what really counts.



3/4 of a game DOES NOT equate to an entire season, nor was Shields asked to play out of position in his rookie season. That makes your argument null and void right there, as well as completely ludicrous.

Russell Okung went on record as saying that playing RT in the Pro Bowl after 2012 did feel awkward to him. It's not an excuse, it's a stark reality. Fisher looked more comfortable at LT in 2014, than he did at RT in 2013. I know, because I watched him closely both seasons via NFL Game Rewind.



As stated before, Fisher has performed better for what he was drafted to do, than two other guys that were were drafted by the Chiefs in the top 5 (Dorsey and Jackson) were drafted to do & both of whom were paid more than double what Fisher is being paid. Any objective observer can see that you didn't answer this germane point, but stayed miles away from it.

Do tell, were Jackson and Dorsey, or even Eric Berry, Pro Bowl caliber in their first 3 seasons? Not even close & anybody who thinks Berry deserved the Pro bowl after the 2010 and 2012 seasons, is an even bigger cheerleader than the ones that work at the games.

Fisher has not been Pro Bowl caliber, but to label him a bust after only playing one season at LT, is silly.



According to whom? Certainly not Dorsey or Reid. If they saw him as a bust, they'd have probably traded him in the off-season, just like they did with Jon Baldwin.

Seriously, you are looking at Jackson and Dorsey as a level of comparision. Both of those guys were busts based on where they were drafted and sent packing. A trend that Fisher is closely following.

Again, Fisher has played TWO seasons.... Not one. Where he played is insignificant except for those who wanting to make excuses for him. He has now played two full season at the speed of the NFL level. Yes it was uncomfortable for Okung in one game but after two season in the NFL Fisher should be getting comfortable regardless of his position. The point about Shields was the fact that it does not matter where you play if you are an NFL offensive lineman you are an NFL lineman.

This is a make or break year given the previous three year standard set by Brandon Albert. The Chiefs may think different but I and many people including the local media just this morning feel that if he does not step up, it won't matter who the Chiefs get at WR if Alex is being pressured.

Again, I was not sad to see Albert go so using him as a standard for Fisher is not good for Fisher. Albert was a #17 who the Chiefs traded up to get, so what.. he was not a #1 over all pick and was being converted from a Guard to LT. There is a huge huge difference. According to me and as a Fan and person who pays to go watch the Chiefs play. I have the right to form my own opinion of the entertainment being sold to me. At this point in time, I am not happy with Fisher. I understand the players behind him in the draft didn't fair any better and I couldn't tell you honestly who I would have preferred realistically then.


So all I can do is hope Fisher turns it around as I liked the pick when we took him. I do hope he does, but fact of the matter no matter what excuses you want to make. The pick is not looking good.

[brdempsey69]

Seriously, you are looking at Jackson and Dorsey as a level of comparision. Both of those guys were busts based on where they were drafted and sent packing. A trend that Fisher is closely following.

No, Fisher isn't following the same trend. For a guy that had no off-season preparation and playing his first season at LT and facing a steady diet of the games best pass rushers, he turned in a very respectable showing and showed a lot of promise for future seasons. The same can't be said of Dorsey or Jackson in their 2nd NFL seasons. And, as was already pointed out, both of those guys were paid 50+ million dollar contracts.

Again, Fisher has played TWO seasons.... Not one.

But, he's only played one at LT & in spite of everything, he still outperformed Albert in year 2 in the NFL at the position.

Where he played is insignificant except for those who wanting to make excuses for him. He has now played two full season at the speed of the NFL level. Yes it was uncomfortable for Okung in one game but after two season in the NFL Fisher should be getting comfortable regardless of his position.

Quite the contrary. Asking a guy to switch from LT to RT, and then back to LT again after playing a full year at RT, is a tall order for any O-Lineman. Just ask Jeff Allen about playing Guard in the NFL (a position which he has struggled at thus far), after playing 4 college seasons as a Tackle. Or look at Albert's first 3 seasons of struggling at LT, after being a Guard in high school and in college.

Your statement sounds more like excuses being made for those wanting to label him as a "bust", when in fact, that determination can't truthfully be made, as of yet.

The point about Shields was the fact that it does not matter where you play if you are an NFL offensive lineman you are an NFL lineman.

Your point about Shields is just a strawman that doesn't change or alter the fact that playing 3/4 of a game at LT doesn't equate to playing 16 full games at LT, and doesn't provide a valid example at all.

The statement about "if you are an NFL, you are an NFL lineman" is also pointless. Robert Gallery struggled at Tackle, but was a pretty good Guard. Brian Waters struggled at Center in 2001, but became a decent Guard when they moved him there in 2002. Does anybody really think that Casey Weignmann would have been as good of a Guard, as he was a Center? Fat Chance.

This is a make or break year given the previous three year standard set by Brandon Albert.

Three year standard set by Albert? If that's the case, then Fisher has already passed the test. I know for a fact that in Albert's third season in 2010, he gave up 9 sacks in his last 5 starts and allowed tons of hits on the QB throughout that season. As for Albert's last 3 seasons in 2011, 2012, and 2013, he didn't play against as good of a series of opponents as Fisher did in 2014.

The Chiefs may think different but I and many people including the local media just this morning feel that if he does not step up, it won't matter who the Chiefs get at WR if Alex is being pressured.

All that's telling anyone is that you and the local media didn't watch the games very closely and certainly didn't watch Fisher very closely. Of the 49 sacks given up last year, Fisher was only responsible for 7 of those. That leaves 42 sacks that came from elsewhere. Most of the pressure on Alex Smith last year, was coming straight up the middle.

Nobody is saying that Fisher doesn't need to improve, but by the same token, he wasn't the chief culprit as far as the bad pass-protection went in 2014.

Again, I was not sad to see Albert go so using him as a standard for Fisher is not good for Fisher. Albert was a #17 who the Chiefs traded up to get, so what.. he was not a #1 over all pick and was being converted from a Guard to LT. There is a huge huge difference.

You're forgetting that they also traded Jared Allen, as well. Trading Jared Allen, as well as trading a 3rd round pick to move up to #15 where Albert was selected (not at #17, as you are saying) proved to be a VERY high cost. Therefore, it is more that fair to use Albert as a standard. Also, Fisher sacrificed his first season in the NFL playing out of position (and playing hurt most of the time), whereas Albert was unwilling to make a position switch & thought he was worth top-5 LT money (when he wasn't) and turned down lucrative contract offers from the Chiefs TWICE.

The only real huge difference is that people were willing to give Albert a hall pass, whereas these same people are giving Fisher thumbs toward hell scrutiny. There's no real justification for that.

According to me and as a Fan and person who pays to go watch the Chiefs play. I have the right to form my own opinion of the entertainment being sold to me. At this point in time, I am not happy with Fisher. I understand the players behind him in the draft didn't fair any better and I couldn't tell you honestly who I would have preferred realistically then.

Good, this will show people not to take your opinion seriously, if all you are doing is watching the game one time and following only the football. Your statement of Albert being ahead of Fisher after year 2 (which is false) will also show people not to take your opinion seriously, as well as the statement "The Chiefs may think different (who watch tape on him repeatedly) but I and many people including the local media (who most likely watch the game one time, probably in a drunken stupor, and follow only the football) just this morning feel that if he does not step up, it won't matter who the Chiefs get at WR if Alex is being pressured."

So all I can do is hope Fisher turns it around as I liked the pick when we took him. I do hope he does, but fact of the matter no matter what excuses you want to make. The pick is not looking good.

What you are calling excuses, are in fact stark realities. The pick looks promising to me, in all fairness & factors considered. And Fisher doesn't need to "turn around", he simply needs to improve his pass protection a bit & cut down the mental errors a bit. His run-blocking is already superb.

[ctchiefsfan]

Jimminy crickets! Why are we fighting? We're all Chiefs fans here. Fisher is NOT a bust. He's not a huge success either. As far as I am concerned he's proved himself worth a high second round pick.

Will he ever prove to have been worth the #1 pick overall? Probably not. But it was a crappy draft year. Just our luck.

I suggest that everybody should stop thinking about Fisher in terms of the #1 overall pick and should start asking themselves if he can turn into a top 7 LT.

I think he has that potential. But only another year or two will tell for sure.

[brdempsey69]

Jimminy crickets! Why are we fighting? We're all Chiefs fans here. Fisher is NOT a bust. He's not a huge success either. As far as I am concerned he's proved himself worth a high second round pick.

Will he ever prove to have been worth the #1 pick overall? Probably not. But it was a crappy draft year. Just our luck.

I suggest that everybody should stop thinking about Fisher in terms of the #1 overall pick and should start asking themselves if he can turn into a top 7 LT.

I think he has that potential. But only another year or two will tell for sure.

This is what I'm trying to tell him. There wasn't any player in that 2013 draft that was going to live up to the billing of #1 overall pick, right from the get-go. The Chiefs basically had a choice of Fisher, Luke Joeckel, or Lane Johnson with that pick.

If people want to talk about busts, then look no further than the #3 overall pick in that same draft, Dion Jordan, who has shown and done nothing in 2 years & is going to be suspended in year 3 <--- that is your true definition of BUST. Fisher has at least shown promise to the point where patience with him may pay off -- which backs what I'm saying and doesn't back what Seek is saying.

I never labeled Branden Albert as a bust. To me he was a guy playing out of position because of stupid player/personnel management and ultimately it spilled over and forced Eric Fisher to play out of position in year 1 (where he played hurt most of the year) & then played year 2 at LT with no off-season preparation. You can't get around that & yet in spite of this, Fisher turned in a better showing in year 2, than what Albert had in year 2.

One more thing I noticed reviewing the games. Last year, I heard "False start -- #72", quite a bit less often than what I'd heard of "False start -- #76" in previous years.

[ctchiefsfan]

This is what I'm trying to tell him. There wasn't any player in that 2013 draft that was going to live up to the billing of #1 overall pick, right from the get-go. The Chiefs basically had a choice of Fisher, Luke Joeckel, or Lane Johnson with that pick.

If people want to talk about busts, then look no further than the #3 overall pick in that same draft, Dion Jordan, who has shown and done nothing in 2 years & is going to be suspended in year 3 <--- that is your true definition of BUST. Fisher has at least shown promise to the point where patience with him may pay off -- which backs what I'm saying and doesn't back what Seek is saying.

I never labeled Branden Albert as a bust. To me he was a guy playing out of position because of stupid player/personnel management and ultimately it spilled over and forced Eric Fisher to play out of position in year 1 (where he played hurt most of the year) & then played year 2 at LT with no off-season preparation. You can't get around that & yet in spite of this, Fisher turned in a better showing in year 2, than what Albert had in year 2.

One more thing I noticed reviewing the games. Last year, I heard "False start -- #72", quite a bit less often than what I'd heard of "False start -- #76" in previous years.

Y'know demps....I don't think ANYONE here really thinks Fisher is a bust. They are just disappointed in what we got for the #1 pick overall. I can't exactly blame them. It was just a crappy draft class. Our luck. But I think Fisher is going to build himself into a very damned good LT. World class? Probably not. But damned good. And y'know I'd be just fine with that. After all.....we could have drafted Geno.....

[Seek]

when it comes down to it Demps. It is all about opinions. You have zero solid facts to support your argument and all I am basing my opinion on is that he has not proven his status yet. I liked the pick of Fisher because I think finding the big guys up front are hard to come by. I certainly was not a Geno Smith guy. Now I liked the Fisher pick over Joekel because the Chiefs told me he was better. I didn't know anything about him. But since then I did got to St. Joe with my kids the last two years, and I do watch the games form the end zone at Arrowhead. Not as much as I used to becasue my boys sports are trumping it so I do watch them delayed on tape more than I like, but I do see the plays developed like a Madden Football game and I do rewind a lot to see who miss their blocks, I know generally why flags are thrown and yell at refs when they miss them. So I don't just watch the ball.

That being said, I watched Fisher Struggle a lot in camp but he does work hard at it and jumps right back in there ready to give it another go. Maybe it was his shoulder hurting. Maybe it is because he pairs up with better defensive players, but he is beat often in drills.

So I still stand on the fact that there was opinions of him from formers offensive lineman that Fisher lacks a good initial punch and it is very hard to improve that fundamental technique. Either he has it or he doesn't an the initial report and play says he dosen't have that.

Is he a bust, no... Not yet, and he is not an average LT yet either. This will have to be played out. So since you clearly discredited me and my opionion of any value, which I could care little about. This will be the last I speak of Fisher until I either have to stand up and say, I was wrong great job Fisher or the Chiefs do decide to find an alternative LT in which I hope you would be willing to stand up and say, you were wrong.

One piece of material for you. I could care less about these types of post but they also feel the same about Fisher as I do. They do have Joeckel ranked higher not much just a few spots but he did miss almost an entire season his rookie year so he has one less year at the NFL speed than Fisher.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...5-left-tackles