Royals vs. Chiefs

[Stevie Ray]

You want to know why the Royals have built an organization that is a 'legitimate' contender to win championships?
Well, it's because they have a regime that not only understands the most essential elements to success, but also acts upon it.

It's pitching/defense:

1. A starting rotation that logs innings.
2. A bullpen that shuts the door in late innings and shortens the game.
3. An athletic defense that catches the ball and saves runs.

This is the aspect of the game where the Royals can't afford to be content with mediocrity. Of course there is no blueprint to a championship, and nothing is ever guaranteed, but this maximizes their chances.

In football, the most essential element is the play/ability of the QB, and to a slightly lesser extent, the philosophy of the head coach (which is, in large part, dependent on the skill/ability of the QB).

Of course baseball and football are vastly different sports, but the principle of placing the highest priority on the quintessentials (respective to their particular sport/league) is very similar.

To put it bluntly, the Royals are where they are because they've focused their efforts there, while the Chiefs have not ..... and continue not to.

My love and passion for both teams, and both sports, is as equal as can possibly be.
But until the Chiefs do away with the philosophy of being content with mediocrity at the most important aspect of the game, I can't take them as a serious threat to bring a championship to KC.

Hope/Optimism is one thing -- Expectation is another.

[Stevie Ray]

In keeping with the topic of this thread the Royals did not get to where they are because of 1 position on the field. They Built a TEAM. The defense helps the pitching at times and the pitching has done its job.

The topic of the thread is about each franchieses focus on the great equalizers of each sport, respectively. In baseball, it's pitching/defense. In football, it's the QB.

There is no way to draw a direct comparison of the two games in regards to one position or how the team is built. It's all relative, and you can't move forward in a discussion about it unless you're 1st willing to grant that premise.

[Stevie Ray]

Baseball is essentially a continuum of 1 vs. 1 matchups, and it's the only sport where the defense starts with possession of the ball. Pitching IS defense in baseball.

Football is series after series of coordinated harmony, but there is one player that handles the ball during each execution of it. The QB is the only player on the field that must be aware of where all other 21 players are, what they're doing/going to do, and decide the best course of action accordingly.

No one player in baseball means as much to the success of his team.

Yes, the Royals built a team ......... but so have the Chiefs. The difference is the fact that the Royals built a team with an unwaivering focus on pitching/defense as its hub - everything else was secondary, even if it meant sacrificing and/or settling in other areas.

The Chiefs have to treat the QB position likewise, imo.

"Football is the ultimate team sport, except the QB is too damn important." - Dick Vermeil

[Stevie Ray]

Got news for you. Joe Montana invalidated your philosophy about "drafting a QB in round 1" long ago.

Joe Montana? Why not Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Brett Farve?

I never said that the only way to get a good QB is to draft him in the 1st round - though I'm sure we can agree that the overwhelming majority of great QBs were 1st round picks.

My philosophy was about situations where a team needs to take the chance on drafting a QB in the 1st round. You're talking about something else.

As for drafting Bridgewater, the Chiefs got Dee Ford and Murray later on, which is a lot better than drafting Bridgewater at #23.

Based on what? What has Ford or Murray done for the Chiefs that leads you to that presumption?

I think Ford will one day become a solid pass rusher and playmaker, but if Murray does much more than hold clipboards, I'll be shocked.

[brdempsey69]

Joe Montana? Why not Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Brett Farve?

I never said that the only way to get a good QB is to draft him in the 1st round - though I'm sure we can agree that the overwhelming majority of great QBs were 1st round picks.

My philosophy was about situations where a team needs to take the chance on drafting a QB in the 1st round. You're talking about something else.



Based on what? What has Ford or Murray done for the Chiefs that leads you to that presumption?

I think Ford will one day become a solid pass rusher and playmaker, but if Murray does much more than hold clipboards, I'll be shocked.

Based on the fact that Bridgewater would have done nothing more than be a sideline observer just like Murray was last year, and Ford provided depth behind Hali and Houston and will succeed Hali. Again, your argument is invalidated.

[doobs_05]

nevermind

[Stevie Ray]

Based on the fact that Bridgewater would have done nothing more than be a sideline observer just like Murray was last year, and Ford provided depth behind Hali and Houston and will succeed Hali. Again, your argument is invalidated.

LMAO!

[matthewschiefs]

I feel as chiefs fans, we've lived a lot on "potential". I remember after the 2010 season people were saying "oh man if so and so steps up we got this" then Charles goes down, 0-4 start or something then orton comes in we make some strides, 7-9 one FG from the division title "romeo will make this team better cassel will step up" and then 2-14. And every time we see the warning signs, Romeo was a bad coach, Cassel was not a good QB, etc. It's the curse of being too loyal you let small things slide by. Could be the browns and draft a 1st round qb every year and get no where. but you could be Pitt or Bal and draft one and it works (Big ben and Flacco) or be Cincy draft a qb and get to the playoffs and just lose.

Sad but true potential just has never come to be for this team

Here's hoping that Reid and Dorsey are finally the group that turns potential into realized talent on the field it would be nice to see for sure

[Stevie Ray]

Does anybody have the ESPN insider article that ranks 2015 NFL QBs by tier?
Smith was ranked a tier 3, and #16 overall.
I heard NFL GMs had a lot of interesting things to say about him.

[doobs_05]

Does anybody have the ESPN insider article that ranks 2015 NFL QBs by tier?
Smith was ranked a tier 3, and #16 overall.
I heard NFL GMs had a lot of interesting things to say about him.

Average rating: 2.77 | Change in rating: +6.4%2014 Rank: 18
There are different types of 3s. Smith is the type voters view more favorably because he generally will not lose the game, and he's a good teammate. However, voters do not think he has played a leading role in his 25-13-1 record as a starter over the past three seasons. Smith is seventh in winning percentage and 19th in Total QBR over that span, rankings that line up very closely with those for Andy Dalton, another quarterback in the third tier.
"At one time, I would have had Alex as a 2, but he has to be a 3 because of his arm talent," a head coach said. "He has everything else, but his arm talent, his instincts to throw the ball with anticipation [are lacking]. I think it is a product of playing in so many systems. When he was young, I thought he had a chance."
A GM who placed Smith in the third tier said he thought the Chiefs couldn't win a championship with him behind center.
"To me, a 2 has to have a good cast around him," the GM said. "A 3 is not going to win a championship even though he has a good cast around him. But he is good enough to be a starter."
A personnel director disagreed, saying he thought a team such as the Lovie Smith-era Chicago Bears -- loaded on defense, dynamic on special teams -- would have won a Super Bowl if Smith had been its quarterback. The 2006 Bears reached the Super Bowl with a 13-3 record even though Rex Grossman posted a 39.3 QBR, by far the lowest for a Super Bowl team in the QBR era (since 2006). Smith's QBR over the past three seasons stands at 53.1, higher than the regular-season figures for three recent Super Bowl champs (2007 Giants, 2008 Steelers 2012 Ravens). But those teams all had quarterbacks currently in the second tier -- guys some voters feel have the physical attributes of a first-tier QB.
"I don't know how you can give a QB who hasn't thrown a TD pass to a wide receiver in more than a year anything above a 4," a salary-cap manager said.
One GM said of Tannehill: "His biggest issue is his lack of natural arm strength." Joe Robbins/Getty Images

well he is 2 spots higher than dalton so i guess he's slighty about average since dalton is the standard for average (hence the dalton line)

and if anyone cares

Tier 1

T-1. Aaron Rodgers
T-1. Tom Brady
3. Andrew Luck
4. Ben Roethlisberger
5. Peyton Manning
6. Drew Brees
Tier 2

7. Philip Rivers
8. Russell Wilson
9. Tony Romo
10. Joe Flacco
11. Matt Ryan
T-12. Eli Manning
T-12. Matthew Stafford
14. Cam Newton
Tier 3

15. Carson Palmer
16. Alex Smith
17. Ryan Tannehill
T-18. Colin Kaepernick
T-18. Andy Dalton
T-20. Derek Carr
T-20. Jay Cutler
22. Nick Foles
T-23. Sam Bradford
T-23. Teddy Bridgewater
Tier 4

25. Marcus Mariota
26. Jameis Winston
27. Blake Bortles
28. Robert Griffin III
29. Josh McCown
30. Brian Hoyer
31. Matt Cassel
32. Geno Smith

Welcome to our second annual "Quarterback Tiers" project, with a voting panel of 35 league insiders (up from 26 last year). The process was straightforward: The coaches and evaluators I polled placed each of the 32 projected starters into one of five tiers, with Tier 1 reserved for the very best and Tier 5 reserved for the very worst.While it's far from rigid, our NFL front office and coach voters typically categorized the tiers as follows:
• Tier 1 quarterbacks can carry their teams week after week and contend for championships without as much help.
• Tier 2 QBs are less consistent and need more help, but good enough to figure prominently into a championship equation.
• Tier 3 are quarterbacks who are good enough to start but need lots of support, making it tougher to contend at the highest level.
• Tier 4 is typically reserved for unproven starters or those who might not be expected to last in the lineup all season. Voters used the fifth tier sparingly.
We gave the insiders anonymity so they could speak candidly. They did not disappoint. The 35th and final insider, a longtime defensive coordinator, could not believe it when I told him five of the previous 34 had left Andrew Luckoutside the top tier on their ballots. "Those five guys didn't play against him. He is a 1, I am telling you. He is f------ good. Nobody blocks anybody up front, and he is still good."
In the end, we averaged the tier rankings for each quarterback to produce a 1-32 ranking across four tiers (no starting QBs received enough Tier 5 votes to fall into the fifth tier). There was movement in the pecking order from our piece last year. Peyton Manning and Drew Brees slipped. Luck and Ben Roethlisbergersurged. Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady held firm and were the only unanimous Tier 1 players. And perhaps surprisingly, Derek Carr holds an early lead onTeddy Bridgewater among the 2014 draftees.
There's a lot to digest, so we won't delay any longer. First, though, a big thank you to our panel: eight personnel directors, six general managers, four head coaches, five offensive coordinators, five defensive coordinators, three salary-cap managers, one ex-GM, two ex-head coaches, and one offensive assistant coach.

This is a list of howprofessional NFL talent evaluators expect QBs to perform in this upcoming season, based on their evaluation of last season. The people inside NFL teams rarely give a **** about things like passer rating and rankings in the NFL, they care (to a fault?) about what they see on film, so everyone arguing about stats this and stats that... you guys have totally missed the point.

[Stevie Ray]

doobs_05, thanks for posting. You're my hero.

This is a very interesting read. I'm still not sure what these evaluators see in Derek Carr that places him above Bridgewater. In just the small sample sizes that we have, I'd say Bridgewater's skills and prospects as a franchise QB are far superior to that of Carr's ....., but I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Either way, I think the Chiefs (and other QB-needy organizations) made a mistake by passing on Bridgewater. There will be regret for it one day, imo.