For the purpose of discussion Only

[matthewschiefs]

Let's just say that the season doesn't go as well as we all like. At what point do you think we should insert Mahomes in the starting role. What would be the record that you would think it's time to start him and see what he can do when the games actually count.

I would say if we are around the 1-5 mark like a couple of years ago. We caught lightning in a bottle then chances are that won't happen again.

What's your take

[ctchiefsfan]

Well....I've carefully watched and re-watched on youtube every play Mahomes has made in pre-season. But I ain't no genius. So here's my take on the question. Mahomes has improved his mechanics since the vids I've seen of him in college. But IMO he still has a ways to go before he is a legitimate starter in the NFL. Based on what I've seen, I think he is a smart kid who is learning quickly but needs more time.

Based on just 2 pre-season games I'd be fine with Mahomes as backup and therefore the starter if Alex got injured but I wouldn't want to see Alex pulled in favor of Mahomes because things weren't going well. Many is the fine highly-drafted QB that got wrecked by being put into the fray too early. College is different than the NFL....especially coming from the Air Raid offense. If Alex got knocked out for the season I'd probably want us looking for a veteran free agent.

I'd be happy to see Mahomes get reps in "garbage time" during the regular season. I think that would be wise. Get him all the reps we can during "real games" this season when the weight of win or loss isn't on his shoulders. But pulling Alex because things weren't going well? I think that would be unwise. Of course, it's easy to say that now when the games don't count. If we find ourselves 1-5 again it is possible that I might start thinking with my heart instead of my head.

[matthewschiefs]

If Alex got knocked out for the season I'd probably want us looking for a veteran free agent.

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This is the only thing I really disagree on. If Alex went down I just don't think there is a vet QB out there who could come in and do anywhere close to a good job. Mahomes may not be "NFL ready" but he at least knows the playbook by now. A vet outside of not having the ability would also lack that knowledge.

I really don't think that this will be an issue. Just want to get everyone's thoughts on at what point they think it would be time to push that button and make that move. 1-5 is where I would start to think about it

[ctchiefsfan]

This is the only thing I really disagree on. If Alex went down I just don't think there is a vet QB out there who could come in and do anywhere close to a good job. Mahomes may not be "NFL ready" but he at least knows the playbook by now. A vet outside of not having the ability would also lack that knowledge.

You make a very good point. Reid's offense isn't the easiest one to learn....even for a veteran QB.

I really don't think that this will be an issue. Just want to get everyone's thoughts on at what point they think it would be time to push that button and make that move. 1-5 is where I would start to think about it

Your 1-5 hypothetical situation is a valid one. We saw it not so long ago so it's certainly not outside the realm of possibility that it could happen again. So to get directly to your point, I've no real clue now how I would react then but here is how I HOPE I would react.....If we were getting killed in every game and Alex was getting beat to death but still standing I hope I'd want to leave him in. If our O-line can't defend Alex (who is a pretty mobile QB) then I don't see how the same O-line would be able to defend Mahomes. And I wouldn't want to see our QBOTF getting pounded to death in his rookie season. On the other hand, if we were 1-5 and all the games had been at least somewhat close and Alex was simply not converting red-zone trips to TDs and we were constantly getting stuck with 3 points then yeah....1-5 would be time to get REAL SERIOUS about considering a change.

[matthewschiefs]

Your 1-5 hypothetical situation is a valid one. We saw it not so long ago so it's certainly not outside the realm of possibility that it could happen again. So to get directly to your point, I've no real clue now how I would react then but here is how I HOPE I would react.....If we were getting killed in every game and Alex was getting beat to death but still standing I hope I'd want to leave him in. If our O-line can't defend Alex (who is a pretty mobile QB) then I don't see how the same O-line would be able to defend Mahomes. And I wouldn't want to see our QBOTF getting pounded to death in his rookie season. On the other hand, if we were 1-5 and all the games had been at least somewhat close and Alex was simply not converting red-zone trips to TDs and we were constantly getting stuck with 3 points then yeah....1-5 would be time to get REAL SERIOUS about considering a change.

This is a VERY good point you raise here CT. It would be much more then the record but how we get there. A point I had not thought of when I made the post.

[ctchiefsfan]

This is a VERY good point you raise here CT. It would be much more then the record but how we get there. A point I had not thought of when I made the post.

I thank you. The real thing IMO is this....you generally don't pull a veteran QB especially not a real good one just because he's having a rough day or a rough few weeks. And love him or hate him, Alex is a very good veteran QB that the players respect. So you don't pull Alex. Mahomes has to win the job. He's the young bull and the young bull never gets the cows until he BEATS the old bull. BUT...all rules are MADE TO BE BROKEN. I mean you don't pull Brady or Peyton Manning...right? But as I recall, both Brady and Manning were pulled DURING GAMES AGAINST THE CHIEFS during the Reid era. Probably the first time either had been pulled from a game for anything other than injury or garbage time since they became starters. Interesting thought there eh? Even the best can get pulled.

So....my basic answer is....You don't pull Alex but you "never say never" because situations do arise where "never" turns into "we got to do this and we got to do it right now". But you never know what situation it will take to force that change so I can't put my finger on a specific situation or W-L record where replacing Alex with Mahomes (long term or short term) would be the right thing to do and "generally" I'm against it, but I accept that the situation could arise where it might be the only right thing to do.

[brdempsey69]

My take is Donkey's SUCK......but, you knew that already.

Seriously, though, if we get to the midway point of the season and have a dismal record & Alex isn't playing well or throwing the ball well (we're talking over a long series of several consecutive games, here), then why not turn the reigns over to Mahomes?

There is always the injury factor, as well, that could come into play, and force Mahomes to play.

[Eydugstr]

This is the only thing I really disagree on. If Alex went down I just don't think there is a vet QB out there who could come in and do anywhere close to a good job. Mahomes may not be "NFL ready" but he at least knows the playbook by now. A vet outside of not having the ability would also lack that knowledge.

I really don't think that this will be an issue. Just want to get everyone's thoughts on at what point they think it would be time to push that button and make that move. 1-5 is where I would start to think about it

Actually there's one vet I'd consider to take the reigns, if he miraculously became available if Smith went down...Nick Foles. He's had recent knowledge of the offense, experience with Reid and would have the tools to get it done.

But back to the original question...If it were up to me I'd put Mahomes in if we had lost eight games and there was no shot of making the playoffs. Starting off 1-5 sucks but at least you can keep an entire team focused and fighting to get out of the rut, and have a chance of the postseason; When it's eight losses it's pretty much a given it's over, then yes start thinking of the future and start playing Mahomes.

Everyone's excited about Mahomes, he's got a lot of raw talent and how I hope he turns into an elite QB for us, but we need to get him in the right mindset. If we go deep into the playoffs this year, then turn the starting job over to him next year, we'll put him in the mindset of "This is what we want you to expect of yourself every season."

[Seek]

I don't know. I look back and see all these QB's who fizzled out when they were inserted into the fire and asked to develop by trial. Most of those teams were aweful and drafted their QB because they had the top picks in the draft. I would prefer he sit a full year and learn, but I do think our team is good enough that he will have chances to lean on many others to help him develop as opposed to getting his confidence destroyed from constant pressure or mistakes he can't control.

[ctchiefsfan]

My take is Donkey's SUCK......but, you knew that already.

Y'know Demps....between your hatred for the Broncos and my hatred for the Raiders if we both channeled our energies we could probably make all the players on both teams lame, lazy or crippled. :) Meantime, with your permission I think I'll start most of my posts with my version of this comment! :)

Seriously, though, if we get to the midway point of the season and have a dismal record & Alex isn't playing well or throwing the ball well (we're talking over a long series of several consecutive games, here), then why not turn the reigns over to Mahomes?

I VERY CAUTIOUSLY agree with that. I am "in general" against such a move but I realize that "desperate times call for desperate measures" so the situation could arise where pulling Alex in favor of Mahomes might be the right thing to do. But I sincerely hope it doesn't come to that. IMO Mahomes honestly needs at least 1 full year before we throw him into combat.

There is always the injury factor, as well, that could come into play, and force Mahomes to play.

YEP! Alex is pretty damned durable but as we saw last year vs the Colts he's not Superman. And as things stand now it certainly seems that if Alex went down the only sane thing to do would be to put in Mahomes.