The case against Andy Reid

[matthewschiefs]

I'm going to start by saying that Andy Reid was the right hire for the Chiefs in 2013. And he deserves a lot of credit for how far this team has come since the time he was hired. That was then and this is now. And now this team needs to move away from Andy Reid. Some feel that this is an overreaction so let me lay out my case in full.

Charge #1 PLAYCALLING!!!! This is something I think that we have all been frustrated with time and time again over the past few years. I know that I have been harping on this for years now. In postgame after postgame loss pressers, he has said over and over again that he has to do a better job in that. And yet the following week we see the SAME thing. Does he really recognize the problem? Or can he just not stop himself from running the failed plays? Either way, it has been something that has haunted him his entire NFL head coaching career. And if he hasn't learned in what is now 20 seasons will he ever? Yesterday it was reported he was giving up the duties but still overseeing the offense. And for the most part, the offense REALLY went well. But then like normal Andy just couldn't help himself. You have a defense that is struggling the ball and a 3rd and 1 you take out one of the best TEs in the NFL and call a play to get an O-linemen the ball? Surprise surprise it failed. Some might question if Andy called the play or Naggy? At the end of the day, Andy is the head coach and has the final call regardless. He just couldn't help himself one way or the other he allowed it to happen.

Charge #2 Discipline. We have seen this really stick out this season. Kelce has had a couple of them already and Peters did yesterday. We saw it some last season as well. You are damn right that you can put a lot of the blame for the guys losing their cool. But when you have so many cases of this it stands out. And as a head coach, it's your job to get this fixed. He hasn't. You can tell a lot about a coach by the discipline that his team has. And in this area, we have seen some very lackluster times. Between just bad penalties or plays losing it on the field, they don't have the discipline of a championship team.

Charge #3 Clock management. Like charge 1 this has been something that has haunted Andy his entire head coaching career. It is not quite at the level as the playcalling issue. But like the playcalling issue, I think this has been something that has left us all frustrated from time to time. While I can't point to one big thing in this regard relating to yesterdays game I can recall the time it bugged me the most. Going back to the playoff loss to the Pats. Late in the game Chiefs have the ball clock ticking way too much camera shows Andy just shaking his head. Doing nothing about it. And that time would come back to haunt the Chiefs in that playoff loss.

I'm not going to even pretend to say the Andy Reid shouldn't be an NFL head coach. If you are a team that is in need of being turned around then he is without a doubt a very good option to bring in to get things started. He is deserving of being one of the 32 guys that are an NFL head coach. But you are not going to get a championship level with him. He lacks the ability to fix the weakness in his teams. As I stated at the start he was the right hire for the position the Chiefs were in at that time. But now is the time it's time to move on. He has gone as far as he will go. It's time to move on from Andy Reid IMO If he could fix these issues I think he would have in the 20 years he has been an NFL coach.

[matthewschiefs]

HAHAHA! BIG SMILE! I just tried reposting my reply and it still won't go through.

You may want to try a different browser. Firefox Chrome ect. I've had that happen as well before on sites

[ctchiefsfan]

You may want to try a different browser. Firefox Chrome ect. I've had that happen as well before on sites

I'm using Chrome. I think somehow my reply last night got corrupted and won't go through using copy/paste. I'm going to try retyping the whole thing from the copy I printed last night when it originally wouldn't go through.

[ctchiefsfan]

ct.

First off no offense is taken. Never worry about that. Unless you personally attack someone then a difference of opinion is what open forums are all about.

Thank you. I just didn't want anyone misinterpreting my post...

About the overreaction aspect. There are times that people do overreact. But i really don't think that's the case here. I've tried to take this year out of it entirely. I'm looking more at the long term andy reid resume. And when you do you see the same issues have haunted his teams in both philly and kc. That's what i'm driving at here. And why i don't think we are going to go any farther then what we have under andy reid.

Your points regarding Reid's history are valid. His playcalling and clock management are sometimes enough to drive a tea-total to drunkenness.

Or let me make my case this way. In charge 4 i mentioned the inconsistent play. Reid teams have regularly gone to losing streaks of 3 or more or 3 of 4 (25% of the season) almost every year for over 10 years. Look at the ultimate championship level coach in ne. You know how many times his teams have had one of those stretches 1 time in that same period. And keep in mind he went a full season without brady.

Again, I can not refute your statement. But I ask you honestly...Is it really fair to compare Reid and his Eagles and Chiefs teams with Belichick? Do we kick him to the curb because in 5 years he hasn't matched Belichick?

I don't mean to say that reid did not do a good job in kc. That would be just nonsense to say. My point is he in 20 years has only gotten so far. 20 years of history show you that this is probably as far as he can take a team.

Thank you. If I read you right, you are pretty much saying Reid has "Marty Disease". And you may be right. That said, I go back to my point which is that based on the last 4 years I believe he has earned the right to at least 2 years with his handpicked new QB--Mahomes. He took us from the catastrophe of 2012 to 4 winning records. I think that Reid has realized that his offensive schemes are outdated and pushed for the Mahomes selection because he realized his offensive schemes were no longer "good enough". In a way, Reid is a victim of his own success. Using his Offensive schemes that were tailored for Alex, we did so well that he (Reid) thought he could use it to get to the Super Bowl. But I think he realized that wasn't the case and so pushed for a new style of QB that he could use new schemes with. In short, I think Reid wants to change his playcalling dramatically and went and got a QB who would work with his new ideas. Guess what I am saying is that I think an old dog can learn new tricks. And I think Reid has earned the opportunity to prove it.

To your point about reid have the most success again you're correct. But i ask you this. The owner of that business probably has some goals. Just like clark hunt has. When someone continues to fail to meet that goal not just for you but elsewhere for 20 years. How much more time to you give him? Yes, he came closer than anyone else but he's still failing to meet the big goal. I think we have all enjoyed winning the games we have won under andy and your damn right i will be rooting for them to win this sunday again. But history can not be ignored. I think we all would love to have andy win a super bowl in kc. But at some point you just have to look at it and say it's just not going to happen. Andy got us a long way. Now we need someone to get up to the promise land.

You ask how much longer do I think we should give Reid. Naturally, there are too many variables to give a fixed answer. Questions like....What coaches are available on the market? I don't think we want to dump Reid for Buddy Ryan do we? What does Reid do with his Offensive scheme once Mahomes goes in (next year I presume)? But all in all, I think Reid should be given 2 years with Mahomes as the starter (naturally subject to review based on how we do in 2018) with a "Fish or cut bait" date of the end of the 2019 to get us to the AFC Championship game (or at least SUPER CLOSE). I guess my summary is Mahomes is Reid's baby and he deserves a year or two to show that he knows how to use him.

This a shortened version of my original but then shorter is probably better. I've been known to get a bit long-winded.

[matthewschiefs]

Again, I can not refute your statement. But I ask you honestly...Is it really fair to compare Reid and his Eagles and Chiefs teams with Belichick? Do we kick him to the curb because in 5 years he hasn't matched Belichick?


You ask how much longer do I think we should give Reid. Naturally, there are too many variables to give a fixed answer. Questions like....What coaches are available on the market? I don't think we want to dump Reid for Buddy Ryan do we? What does Reid do with his Offensive scheme once Mahomes goes in (next year I presume)? But all in all, I think Reid should be given 2 years with Mahomes as the starter (naturally subject to review based on how we do in 2018) with a "Fish or cut bait" date of the end of the 2019 to get us to the AFC Championship game (or at least SUPER CLOSE). I guess my summary is Mahomes is Reid's baby and he deserves a year or two to show that he knows how to use him.

This a shortened version of my original but then shorter is probably better. I've been known to get a bit long-winded.

My point isn't so much to compare the teams more to compare the traits of championship level coaches and Reid. They don't have many dips and Reid's teams seem to have some every year. This team has far too much talent to be a .500 team. They beat The Pats and eagles who are both 10-2. They started 5-0 against competition with a record of 35-25 a full 10 games over .500. Yet we see losses to the 2 win Giants. That is not a common trait of a championship level coach. IMO. It would be one thing if we could look and say hey this is a bad year (stuff happens) but when you look and see this has been the norm for Reid coached teams it's alarming.

To your point about Mahomes, I can not sit here and deny that Reid and Mahomes just find something. But I don't think that is very likely. I think we'll see what we have always seen from Reid teams. They just find a way to do something just baffling to lose. If that's an insane play call that ends up with your TE throwing an INT. Or if that's poor clock management they always find a way to lose. It's a trait Reid teams have always had. I just can't say that I see that changing.

[ctchiefsfan]

My point isn't so much to compare the teams more to compare the traits of championship level coaches and Reid. They don't have many dips and Reid's teams seem to have some every year. This team has far too much talent to be a .500 team. They beat The Pats and eagles who are both 10-2. They started 5-0 against competition with a record of 35-25 a full 10 games over .500. Yet we see losses to the 2 win Giants. That is not a common trait of a championship level coach. IMO. It would be one thing if we could look and say hey this is a bad year (stuff happens) but when you look and see this has been the norm for Reid coached teams it's alarming.

To your point about Mahomes, I can not sit here and deny that Reid and Mahomes just find something. But I don't think that is very likely. I think we'll see what we have always seen from Reid teams. They just find a way to do something just baffling to lose. If that's an insane play call that ends up with your TE throwing an INT. Or if that's poor clock management they always find a way to lose. It's a trait Reid teams have always had. I just can't say that I see that changing.

You may well be right and I may have my head stuffed up my ash. Being honest, it wouldn't be the first time I was 100% WRONG. But do you agree that we don't fire Reid unless there is CLEARLY a better head coach candidate on the market. If there is a coach available who is CLEARLY better than Reid then I can accept his being fired. But to be honest, if we were to fire Reid at the end of this year and hire some crippled toad I'd probably have an aneurysm with blood spurting out of my eyes, ears, mouth, nose and other parts of my body that don't need to be mentioned. You may be right in suggesting that Reid is Marty 2.0, though of course only time will tell. But do you want to trade Marty 2.0 for a few years of 4-12 or 8-8?

You say Reid has to go. OK...so who do we replace him with?

[matthewschiefs]

You may well be right and I may have my head stuffed up my ash. Being honest, it wouldn't be the first time I was 100% WRONG. But do you agree that we don't fire Reid unless there is CLEARLY a better head coach candidate on the market. If there is a coach available who is CLEARLY better than Reid then I can accept his being fired. But to be honest, if we were to fire Reid at the end of this year and hire some crippled toad I'd probably have an aneurysm with blood spurting out of my eyes, ears, mouth, nose and other parts of my body that don't need to be mentioned. You may be right in suggesting that Reid is Marty 2.0, though of course only time will tell. But do you want to trade Marty 2.0 for a few years of 4-12 or 8-8?

You say Reid has to go. OK...so who do we replace him with?

I myself would give a good look at Josh Mcdaniels. YES I know he wasn't that good as a HC in Denver. But he was in his early 30s then he might just have been someone that was not yet ready. I think he and Mahomes might be a good combo.

I don't think they will actually move on from Reid after the season. But I really think it's a move that should be done.

[matthewschiefs]

Instead of making a new post I'll just bump this one

Last week was a high this week is just as low. We will never go any farther as long as Andy Reid remains the head coach. He just isn't good enough to get past this

[jason1981]

Instead of making a new post I'll just bump this one

Last week was a high this week is just as low. We will never go any farther as long as Andy Reid remains the head coach. He just isn't good enough to get past this

Reid got an extension didnt he? Id say fire Reid and bob sutton. Maybe give naggy chance at HC. And rb coach Belomy as OC and then promote someone on our D as DC. Our Toub as HC and naggy as OC.

[chiefnutz]

As I've watched the Andy Reid era, it seems like they don't have the ability to adapt and make changes during a game. He has a game plan and just sticks to it. It's killed us time and time again.

[Chiefs4life24]

That's why we can never ever be on par with the steelers or pats in the playoffs cause Tomlin and Bill Kill kill and kill some more, they make adjustments