Post season New Year same Ending #FIREANDY

[matthewschiefs]

Another season has come and broken our hearts. The term forward progress will trigger me for a while. But after a couple of days, I think we can talk about the season.

To me, our season can be summed up in one word. INCONSISTENT

Offense The bookends of our season the offense was at the top of their game. Hot start hot finish the middle was lackluster, to say the least. And that carried over to the playoff game. Hot start then faltered. What makes this even more frustrating we made changes by the end of the year. But in the playoff game, Andy Reid couldn't help himself a hot start then the return to the screens and ignore the NFL RUSHING CHAMPION. The players have shown they can be a VERY hard offense to stop the coaching showed that it couldn't stay out of the way. That is what makes the end all the more frustrating.

Defense. Like the offense INCONSISTENT. You never knew what D was going to take the field. Yes, they had some injuries. But there were weeks they were still able to give us a chance to win the football game. There were others when you couldn't even tell that we fielded a defense. While I don't really think there is any chance that Andy gets fired I think we have seen the last of Bob Sutton in KC. Hopefully, this will be of help to the defense. There are some very talented players on the defense that just did not play up to their talent level much of the season and for that, I have to think that the coaching wasn't where it needed to be.


Overall there were many causes of death for this years team. But mainly stubbornness. Stubbornness to change what wasn't working and hasn't worked for 5 years. This is one of the most frustrating ends to a season that I have seen yet. And seeing that we won't be making a head coaching change I just can't say that I expect any different next season. Overall IMO Andy Reid being Andy Ried is the cause of death.

All that being said there is still the excitement of a top-level potential franchise QB. To see him develop will be very fun. And worth the watch. And while as frustrated as I am with this team I still can't wait to see next season. GO CHIEFS

[brdempsey69]

^^The Mahomes factor and how he does and progresses will be what keeps me intrigued. Not much else.

[ctchiefsfan]

Matt....

I agree with many (not all) of the points you make. INCONSISTENCY was the be-all end-all watchword of this season.

We lost to 3 teams (Steelers 13-3, Dallas 9-7 and Buffalo 9-7) that had winning records. We also lost to 3 teams (Oakland 6-10, Giants 3-13 and Jets 5-11) that had losing records.

We won against 3 teams (Patriots 13-3, Eagles 13-3, ChargersX2 9-7) that had winning records. We won against 5 teams (Redskins 7-9, Houston 4-12, DenverX2 5-11, Oakland 6-10, Miami 6-10 that had losing records.

VERY FRUSTRATING to see us beat 2 of the 3 teams that closed the season with the best record in the NFL (Patriots 13-3 and Eagles 13-3) and also see us losing to 3 teams (Oakland 6-10, Giants 3-13, Jets 5-11) that went a combined 14-34. NOT A ONE OF THOSE TEAMS WERE ABLE TO NOTCH EVEN 7 WINS.

We are a good enough team that we should beat EVERY team that goes 6-10 or worse. The Oakland loss was forgivable since they are a division rival (those games are almost always a toss-up) and as we all recall, it took the zebras giving them 3 or 4 chances at the end zone with no time left on the clock. So I call that loss an aberration.

So really there was only ONE THING that WAS consistent....our Chiefs are VERY GOOD AND CONSISTENT within our division. 16-2 in the AFC West the last 3 years.

The MOST FRUSTRATING of course is our miserable record in the playoffs. Yes, we did break the curse in 2015--FINALLY but the loss to the Colts in 2013 and this year to the Titans are truly EPIC FAILS. Losing a 28 point lead and now an 18 point lead is enough to put a man in the loony bin.

As to #FIREANDY.....I agree it's not going to happen this year and I don't think it should. Though my opinion on that might change if I were to see proof that our second half collapse was caused by Reid taking the playcalling back from Nagy for the 2cond half. And no, I don't consider "It looked like Reid calling the plays" as proof. That's just not enough evidence for me to convict.

So it's on to the Draft and next year. On the bright side, we have a shiny new QB who so far looks like the "Real Deal". We have some GREAT weapons on Offense in the form of Kelce, Hill and Hunt and Wilson looks like if working with Mahomes will turn out to be damned good too. I'm more neutral about our O-line. They certainly are not "bad" but they need to get better. On the negative side, our Defense is aging and has some glaring holes that need to be plugged. IMO #1 on that list is a stud OLB. Tamba Hali just can't get it done anymore. And Houston's best years were always when we could get REAL PRESSURE from BOTH SIDES and I don't think Dee Ford can replace Tamba. Sutton's Defenses seem to be at their best when they can get MAJOR PRESSURE on the enemy QB and we need 2 top notch OLBs to do that. #2 is we need a GOOD cornerback. Revis ain't it. He was a good and CHEAP mid-season stop gap but we need someone better. #3 we need a Defensive Lineman that hunts running backs like a beagle hunts rabbits. RELENTLESSLY. It's going to be hard to plug those holes with no 1st round pick this year, but maybe we can get enough trade value from Alex to really load up in the second round. It would be real nice to have 3 2cond round picks.

[Eydugstr]

This game falls on a huge dose of Reid's playcalling, bad officiating, and a few drops.

Reid coming on postgame saying "It didn't go the way we would have liked..." We've seen that movie before. M/c is correct in saying it's stubbornness. 21-3 at the half should've been the cue to run Kareem Hunt, Charcandrick West and Sherman like crazy. Even if the runs would've gone nowhere it would've ran the clock down and pounded on their linebackers to the point where they might have backed off some to where our passing game would've had a chance in the fourth quarter. But nooooo....You have the league's leading rusher on the roster, he only carries the ball five times in the second half of a playoff game when they started off the half at 21-3? Really ?!? Reid's smarter than that. He knew that was the thing to do, then chose not to do it. But seeing how the man is still employed (and probably will stay that way until we have a really, really bad losing season) we're really depending on him to lose that stubbornness and make changes starting with himself.

The officiating was horrible (really common thing to hear after a Chiefs loss, I know) but this one takes the cake with the head ref leaving his job. The hit on Kelce should've been flagged then and there. Another thing that irritated me was the fact at the end of the game when no whistles were being blown as Derrick Johnson was running down the field, okay I understand he was down, but why didn't the refs blow it dead right then and there? Players get injured bad when that kind of crud happens, with half of them playing and half of them just standing there.

From what I was told, the playoff crews are sort of a "all star" mixture of the "better" refs, not crews that work together as the same team from week to week like the regular season. IMHO the league would be doing itself a favor by not splitting up the crews during the postseason. Again, this is something that could be changed but probably won't, because Random Roger is more worried about psi in footballs, London games, and private jets.

A lot of people are blaming Alex Smith for this one, IMHO that's misplaced. No, Alex didn't do much to redeem himself in the second half, but at times he had the look of a man that had just been told to do something goofy by the boss, then simply followed through. That's on Reid. If Alex was truly THAT bad, he should've been replaced by Mahomes. That's also on Reid.

There were some drops by the WR's that were pretty bad. We were improving in that area, but began to slip back at the worst possible time. SB teams make those catches.

IMHO for this team to pick itself up, we'll need to make the switch to Mahomes, find a good replacement for Sutton if he leaves, make a good trade for Alex Smith and recoup some of our lost draft picks, and have a great draft by Veach. That's a lot of "ifs". But if we do those things fully expect us to be right back in the postseason. But Reid really botched any trade value we had with Alex Smith with this game.

Looking forward to seeing what Mahomes will do, and if Veach is as good as Dorsey was.

[ctchiefsfan]

Overall, I think you got it damn near 100% right.

This game falls on a huge dose of Reid's playcalling, bad officiating, and a few drops.

Yep....plenty of blame to go around and in this kind of loss the good is forgotten and all that remains is the memory of the bad. I'm still not convinced Reid took control of the playcalling in the second half, but I'll admit that that theory does pass the "walks like a duck, swims like a duck, quacks like a duck" test.

Reid coming on postgame saying "It didn't go the way we would have liked..." We've seen that movie before.

Yup. More times than any of us would like but at least under Reid it hasn't been as often as in so many past seasons.

M/c is correct in saying it's stubbornness.

That may well be true. I'm not convinced it is, but it is entirely possible.

21-3 at the half should've been the cue to run Kareem Hunt, Charcandrick West and Sherman like crazy. Even if the runs would've gone nowhere it would've ran the clock down and pounded on their linebackers to the point where they might have backed off some to where our passing game would've had a chance in the fourth quarter. But nooooo....You have the league's leading rusher on the roster, he only carries the ball five times in the second half of a playoff game when they started off the half at 21-3? Really ?!? Reid's smarter than that. He knew that was the thing to do, then chose not to do it. But seeing how the man is still employed (and probably will stay that way until we have a really, really bad losing season) we're really depending on him to lose that stubbornness and make changes starting with himself.

A lot of truth there too. That would have been the traditional thing (and maybe the right thing) to do. But it is worth mentioning that going into the game the Titans had the 4th ranked run Defense in the NFL. So we would have been trying to pound the ball against a top tier Defense. Had that led to a bunch of 3 and outs we would have been giving the Titans several extra possessions. So pounding the rock was far from a sure thing. I do think we should have tried it for at least the 3rd quarter. 49 years of watching football has convinced me that the best running backs usually don't really get into their stride until they hit about 20 carries. The running game is really about putting a beat-down on the opposing Defense and wearing them down.

The officiating was horrible (really common thing to hear after a Chiefs loss, I know) but this one takes the cake with the head ref leaving his job. The hit on Kelce should've been flagged then and there. Another thing that irritated me was the fact at the end of the game when no whistles were being blown as Derrick Johnson was running down the field, okay I understand he was down, but why didn't the refs blow it dead right then and there? Players get injured bad when that kind of crud happens, with half of them playing and half of them just standing there.

The only consolation in this is that we won't see that damned Zebra again.

From what I was told, the playoff crews are sort of a "all star" mixture of the "better" refs, not crews that work together as the same team from week to week like the regular season. IMHO the league would be doing itself a favor by not splitting up the crews during the postseason. Again, this is something that could be changed but probably won't, because Random Roger is more worried about psi in footballs, London games, and private jets.

Yup....the calls for Goodell's head should be even louder than those for Reid's head.

A lot of people are blaming Alex Smith for this one, IMHO that's misplaced. No, Alex didn't do much to redeem himself in the second half, but at times he had the look of a man that had just been told to do something goofy by the boss, then simply followed through. That's on Reid. If Alex was truly THAT bad, he should've been replaced by Mahomes. That's also on Reid.

No way at all I can see any reasonable person blaming this loss on Smith. That said, I think putting Mahomes in for the final Offensive series would have made sense. Mahomes *seems* to have an exceptional ability to create something from nothing. Just the totally different style of play between Mahomes and Alex might have been enough to put a FG or a TD on the board.

There were some drops by the WR's that were pretty bad. We were improving in that area, but began to slip back at the worst possible time. SB teams make those catches.

Yup. I think this is a big part of why the loss of Kelce hurt so much.

IMHO for this team to pick itself up, we'll need to make the switch to Mahomes, find a good replacement for Sutton if he leaves, make a good trade for Alex Smith and recoup some of our lost draft picks, and have a great draft by Veach. That's a lot of "ifs". But if we do those things fully expect us to be right back in the postseason.

Well...Nagy is gone. By all reports Childress and probably Sutton are gone. And that doesn't even mention the possibility that Toub might go. So we have a lot of holes to fill both in the coaching staff and players. And we have to do it with depleted draft picks and little cap space. Making a good trade for Alex will be CRUCIAL.

But Reid really botched any trade value we had with Alex Smith with this game.

I pray you are wrong on that.

Looking forward to seeing what Mahomes will do, and if Veach is as good as Dorsey was.

Yup. We are going to be watching a very different Chiefs team next year.

[matthewschiefs]

CT - I think there is evidence that Reid was calling plays. The ESPN cameras appeared to show him calling them and the commentators even mentioned it during the game. Also, Andy appeared to have admitted it in his post game.

Dugstr- To me it all comes down to the playcalling. I'm not even as upset about the 2nd half playcalling I go back to the 2nd quarter. We came out hot got 2 tds, Then like always reverted back to the screens that have done nothing constantly. In short, we stopped attacking before the game was half over. That's just asking to get beat IMO. A lot of the 2nd half lack of offense was due to not being on the field. You got to remember that the Titans first drive in the 3rd was over half the quarter. The defense just didn't get them off the field and they controlled the ball. There were some bad calls for sure. Like I said I'm going to be triggered by the term forward progress for some time. But the taking the foot off the gas before the game even reached halftime let that be a factor

The playcalling to me is such a big issue because of the fact that Andy did give it up. This shows to me that HE KNOWS THERE'S A PROBLEM. But when it comes down to the season on the line he just can't help himself. And never has he will step in. Maybe with Mahomes, they'll just happen to catch lightning in a bottle. But I just can't say I'm overly hopeful that will happen

[ctchiefsfan]

CT - I think there is evidence that Reid was calling plays. The ESPN cameras appeared to show him calling them and the commentators even mentioned it during the game. Also, Andy appeared to have admitted it in his post game.

Yeah....I saw that footage and heard the commentators say that during the game. Problem I have is I saw that same type of footage during the games where Nagy was calling plays. Reid fiddling with the play menu and talking into his headset. So how do I know that Reid was controlling the plays any more than he he was in the games where we all agree Nagy was calling the plays? I'm not saying he wasn't (because I don't know) I'm just saying that the footage and the babbling of some talking heads doesn't prove anything to me. I mean honestly...anyone over the age of 3 has seen the announcers say something that was so wrong as to be laughable. Also...in the post-game presser Reid said something like "Matt called the good plays and I called the bad ones". IMO that is merely an extension of Reid doing what he always does....Accepting the blame and not putting it on anyone else....not coaches or players. A lot of people hate that about Reid. In my book it is responsible management. Or anyway, it's what I've done in my many years of management and in my days in the Army. Always protect your people.

Dugstr- To me it all comes down to the playcalling. I'm not even as upset about the 2nd half playcalling I go back to the 2nd quarter. We came out hot got 2 tds, Then like always reverted back to the screens that have done nothing constantly. In short, we stopped attacking before the game was half over. That's just asking to get beat IMO. A lot of the 2nd half lack of offense was due to not being on the field. You got to remember that the Titans first drive in the 3rd was over half the quarter. The defense just didn't get them off the field and they controlled the ball. There were some bad calls for sure. Like I said I'm going to be triggered by the term forward progress for some time. But the taking the foot off the gas before the game even reached halftime let that be a factor

Yup. Regardless who was calling the Offensive plays the Defense gets a share of the blame for not being able to get the Titans Offense off the field in the 2cond half. Not all the blame, but a decent share of it. Less possessions=fewer chances to score.

The playcalling to me is such a big issue because of the fact that Andy did give it up. This shows to me that HE KNOWS THERE'S A PROBLEM. But when it comes down to the season on the line he just can't help himself. And never has he will step in. Maybe with Mahomes, they'll just happen to catch lightning in a bottle. But I just can't say I'm overly hopeful that will happen

One thing is for certain...If Reid did in fact completely turn over the playcalling to Nagy starting with the Jets game (and we all believe he did), then went on to let Nagy run it for the rest of the regular season and then sometime in the 2cond or 3rd quarter of the Titans game took the playcalling back then HE SHOULD BE SHOT. "You don't switch horses in midstream" "You don't fix what ain't broke". And Reid is old enough to know that.

[Eydugstr]

CT - I think there is evidence that Reid was calling plays. The ESPN cameras appeared to show him calling them and the commentators even mentioned it during the game. Also, Andy appeared to have admitted it in his post game.

Dugstr- To me it all comes down to the playcalling. I'm not even as upset about the 2nd half playcalling I go back to the 2nd quarter. We came out hot got 2 tds, Then like always reverted back to the screens that have done nothing constantly. In short, we stopped attacking before the game was half over. That's just asking to get beat IMO. A lot of the 2nd half lack of offense was due to not being on the field. You got to remember that the Titans first drive in the 3rd was over half the quarter. The defense just didn't get them off the field and they controlled the ball. There were some bad calls for sure. Like I said I'm going to be triggered by the term forward progress for some time. But the taking the foot off the gas before the game even reached halftime let that be a factor

The playcalling to me is such a big issue because of the fact that Andy did give it up. This shows to me that HE KNOWS THERE'S A PROBLEM. But when it comes down to the season on the line he just can't help himself. And never has he will step in. Maybe with Mahomes, they'll just happen to catch lightning in a bottle. But I just can't say I'm overly hopeful that will happen

Why we didn't replace the screens with more runs I'll never understand. And yes Reid did take his foot off the accelerator early on. But if we would've ran more in the second half with the chances we DID have probably would have taken some more time off of the clock.

Mahomes hopefully will give us a spark to make a different kind of offense.

Defensively I thought it was a case of the Titans making adjustments to counter what our D was doing (during their last drive, it seemed like if our secondary backed up they went to a short quick pass to a tight end or RB.)

[ctchiefsfan]

Matt...Dugstr....

Part of the conversation as to why we lost to the Titans clearly revolves around a simple question...."Who was calling the Offensive plays when the Offense stopped producing?"

Some say Reid. Some say "who knows?" As evidence we get the babblings of the talking heads during the game who said something like "it looks like Reid is running the plays" and Reid's comment that "I called the bad plays and Matt called the good ones" along with the "looks like a duck" argument. I have said several times that none of this is solid evidence and have said why I feel it isn't. And so now we have something to further muddy the question. See the link below where Mike Florio (no huge expert either) states flatly that Nagy called ALL THE OFFENSIVE PLAYS.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...-to-a-new-job/

So to be honest, I don't think any of us really knows who was calling the plays when the Offense stopped producing. So as I have said before, I cannot convict Reid of being guilty of losing that game based on the facts that have been presented. I'm not trying to convince anybody that Reid was or wasn't calling the plays. I'm just saying that I see no clear evidence one way or the other. I want to HANG SOMEONE for that loss as much as anyone, but I want to make sure I hang the right person.

[matthewschiefs]

CT. I don't want you to get me wrong I'm not basing this solo on just this loss. Or this season. I'm looking at the overall work. 4 times in the history of the playoffs has a team blown a 18 point lead 2 of those are Andy Reid's Chiefs. That's half of them in league history in 5 years. And largely due to repeat issues. Meaning they DIDN'T LEARN from mistakes and they repeated them

When it comes to playcalling I think it's also fair to look at other things. Such as Doug Pederson's Eagles. The issues we have had with the playcalling that have I think frustrated all of us over the Reid years haven't gone the Philly. They stayed In KC. They did Go from Philly to KC when Reid came to KC. If he was calling plays or not these are all Andy Reid issues. And IMO why we need to make a change.

But that being said it's really a moot point it's clear they are going to stick with Reid. I just think that will lead us right back here a year from now. Frustrated about a playoff loss due to the same issues that we have been in each of the past few years now.